Qantas FF vs Virgin Velocity

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medhead

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As luck would have it I did my average for 2014, purchased price and currently available prices for yet to be booked flights, for ADL-SYD. VA $105 and QF $127. Old QF earning of 1450 certainly beats 1050. But come July 1, VA will give me 25% more points than Qantas. These changes mean there is a ciggie paper of difference between the programs.
 

Jack_OC

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I have spent the bare minimum on domestic flights. Not one SYD-BNE was over $100. Most $85, $89 and even less if I purchased airfares in advance. My average on QF domestic would be more than 10 points per dollar.

The best earn rate out of those examples is 11.7 points per $ under the current rules, or 9.4 pts per $ under the new rules. VA still wins on domestic earn rate IMHO.

The SIN-BNE-SYD and return flights earn ~18,000 QFF points and sometimes more as I can tack on a few extra flights for next to no cost and the cost of airfare is <AUD1,000. I think I have had 5 or 6 overseas trips past calendar year.

Sorry, I must have got my figures wrong on the QFF earn, but even this example is an earn rate of 18 points per $, so your overall average would still sit well below that, and as I mentioned earlier, it's possible to earn more that 10 points per $ with VA and partners on international flights too (although as I said the earn rate with Velocity intl is a bit less than with QFF for people with the same status level).

Do take note I purchase ~$5,000 in QF vouchers at Christmas and that is close to the total I spend domestically.

You mean one to take advantage of one of those 10 pts per $ offers that come with vouchers? If so, then now I can finally see how your points earn might be so high, but it probably would have been worth mentioning you used a bit of a trick of the trade to earn almost 1/3 of your points!! Still, I don't think an equivalent trick exists with VA, so this is a relevant consideration if it can be depended on every year and if you're in a position to take advantage of it.

As luck would have it I did my average for 2014, purchased price and currently available prices for yet to be booked flights, for ADL-SYD. VA $105 and QF $127. Old QF earning of 1450 certainly beats 1050. But come July 1, VA will give me 25% more points than Qantas. These changes mean there is a ciggie paper of difference between the programs.

And things go even more in favour of VA when you consider cost per point in addition to just total points earned. Your earn rate with QF at that average fare under the new rules will be just 6.3 pts per $ spent, instead of 10 pts per $ with VA.
 

serfty

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I deliberately didn't use sale fares as a point of reference, as I'd be amazed if many regular business travellers end up on sale fares very often. I certainly don't think the average fare over a year would be as low as these examples...
When you have a near weekly commute and know this a year in advance it is generally quite easy to take advantage of sale fares.
 

Jack_OC

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When you have a near weekly commute and know this a year in advance it is generally quite easy to take advantage of sale fares.

Yes I agree if you're commuting to the same place according to a regular schedule, which I suppose a lot of people do, so I've over-generalised! But a lot of people - me included - rarely know where they're going or when more than a week or two in advance.
 
D

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the OP in this thread would easily reach Velocity Platinum in the space of a few month based on the travel he/she describes.

I don't think the OP really gave enough info to say that. If we assume 10 discount international fares might earn 400SCs and 30-40 short domestic hops may earn only 300-400 SCs, he/she may not reach platinum.......although it is possible (perhaps even probable), I wouldn't be so keen to jump to an "easily within a few months" assumption.
 

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You mean one to take advantage of one of those 10 pts per $ offers that come with vouchers? If so, then now I can finally see how your points earn might be so high, but it probably would have been worth mentioning you used a bit of a trick of the trade to earn almost 1/3 of your points!! Still, I don't think an equivalent trick exists with VA, so this is a relevant consideration if it can be depended on every year and if you're in a position to take advantage of it.
No. The points for the vouchers are not included in that total. I did not spend more than $5,500 on QF domestic flights as all flights have been purchased with vouchers.

I used tricks with international airfares back to Australia by adding on extra flights for very little cost. That loophole is now gone. In fact it is pricing ridiculous if I tried to combine some flights.

My main concern would be that I would get nowhere with Virgin if I was Platinum and every year I purchased 80 Virgin flights @$90/flight then I would earn ~72,000 Velocity points but I would have to do 80 Virgin flights a year which in itself would be sheer torture. With Qantas I would earn ~64,000 QFF points which is less than Velocity but I would have to pay more taxes and surcharges.

I would still like to do 4-5 trips a year to Thailand and with Virgin I would have to do these on Singapore airlines. Their cheapest airfares do not earn KrisFlyer so I am guessing they will not earn on Virgin either. So I would need to spend more on airfares but I would struggle to pre-allocate bulkhead in economy even as a Virgin Platinum. So pray that I do not get stuck behind recliners all the way to Thailand. No more First lounge access either. And I am not sure about luggage allowance although that could be 30kgs for Velocity Platinum.

I am not sure how many Velocity points I would earn with those 4-5 trips on the cheapest possible airfares that earn Velocity points but I don't think it would be as much as 10,000 Velocity points per trip. On the cheapest Qantas airfare SIN-BNE return I think I would still earn ~10,000 QFF points and that current airfare is ~AUD555. And I will more than likely get bulkhead seat allocated.

We are all different. The points earn/burn doesn't bother me that much. It is the rest of the benefits that matter more to me. And I am certain of one thing. I do not want to fly Virgin every week. Torture.
 
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Jack_OC

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I don't think the OP really gave enough info to say that. If we assume 10 discount international fares might earn 400SCs and 30-40 short domestic hops may earn only 300-400 SCs, he/she may not reach platinum.......although it is possible (perhaps even probable), I wouldn't be so keen to jump to an "easily within a few months" assumption.

I will mainly be flying domestically around Australia approx 30-40 times a year as well as internationally to US/UK approx 10 times.

I assume this means 30-40 rtn domestic trips and 10 rtn trips to US/UK.

30-40 domestic rtns earns a minimum of 600-800 SCs. A rtn to LAX earns at least 80 SCs (any other US destination earns more). A rtn to the UK earns at least 140 SCs.

So let's be conservative and assume it's 30 domestic rtns, one trip to the UK and 9 to LAX. That would earn 1460 SCs. If it was 40 domestic flights and most intnl trips were further than LA, it would probably go well past 2,000 SCs. Either way, someone undertaking that level of travel would definitely reach Velocity Platinum fairly quickly if all flights were eligible for Velocity SCs.
 

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No. The points for the vouchers are not included in that total. I did not spend more than $5,500 on QF domestic flights as all flights have been purchased with vouchers.

In that case, I still don't see how it's possible for you to have earned 170,000 points for less than $8,500, or even for $10,000 per your revised estimate. The highest points per $ example you gave was 18,000 points for $1,000, and you said you did 5 or 6 of those. If we assume 6, that's 108,000 points for $6,000. I can't see how you could have earned the other 62,000 points for $2,500 or even for $4,000.

As I said at the start, I can see how you would have earned some more points with QFF than you would have earned with Velocity, especially as you are QFF Platinum and relied on some now defunct tricks to maximise points earn. However, my point was simply that the OP should not expect to have anything like double the earn rate if he/she chooses QFF instead of Velocity.

Your other reasons for preferring QF are all fair enough, even if I don't share your low opinion of VA! As you say, everyone is different and needs to decide for themselves what's most important. I'm just saying that I think it would be unwise to choose QFF on the expectation that points earn will be much higher.
 
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So let's be conservative and assume it's 30 domestic rtns, one trip to the UK and 9 to LAX.

You and I have different definitions for conservative, I'd say. ;)

If I were speaking conservatively, based purely on the OP post that he/she were planning on 30-40 dom flights and 10 int flights (to US/UK) and that he/she were on their way to QF silver in a couple of months, I'd be suggesting the flights are not return and being conservative, base the dom on 30 @ the min earn of 10 SCs (300) and the int on 40 SCs (400), which I think adds up a bit better than your assumptions which are really best case scenario rather than conservative. My calcs admittedly don't allow for many (any?) UK trips but the reality is the OP may likely be on the cheap, no earn, fares to the UK and neither your nor my calcs include the possibility that non earning reward flights may make up at least a few of those sectors.

The OP states he/she is "on track to QF silver within a couple of months" which implies he/she already has a good SC balance and still needs a couple of more months to reach silver so although VA status is easier than QF status to gain, it does not equate to QF silver = VA platinum, which is effectively what you are suggesting. Given the original information, I believe the OP should genuinely make VA gold fairly easily and VA plat possibly. Based on your possible predictions, the OP could almost have WP with both, which I don't think is their understanding of their possibilities. Could be wrong of course.....their business may take off spectacularly (I hope it does) and he/she may end up with multiple WP statuses! :p
 

JohnK

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In that case, I still don't see how it's possible for you to have earned 170,000 points for less than $8,500, or even for $10,000 per your revised estimate. The highest points per $ example you gave was 18,000 points for $1,000, and you said you did 5 or 6 of those. If we assume 6, that's 108,000 points for $6,000. I can't see how you could have earned the other 62,000 points for $2,500 or even for $4,000.
Apologies I don't have the full costs in front of me. All I have is the monthly Qantas email advising I have earned ~170,000 QFF points.

The international trips ex-SIN with complex itineraries would have cost ~AUD1,000. The ones that earned~18,000 QFF points would have cost ~AUD600-700.

The trip ex-SIN with ASP in it earned ~23,000 QFF points for just on AUD1,000.

The trip ex-SIN with LST in it earned ~24,000 QFF points for just on AUD1,000.

There was a trip in premium economy that earned > 20,000 QFF points for ~AUD1,100.

That earn post 01 July is going to reduce.
 

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You and I have different definitions for conservative, I'd say. ;)

If I were speaking conservatively, based purely on the OP post that he/she were planning on 30-40 dom flights and 10 int flights (to US/UK) and that he/she were on their way to QF silver in a couple of months, I'd be suggesting the flights are not return and being conservative, base the dom on 30 @ the min earn of 10 SCs (300) and the int on 40 SCs (400), which I think adds up a bit better than your assumptions which are really best case scenario rather than conservative.

I think you're missing my point. The OP didn't say they would take 10 intnl flights per year, they said they would visit the US/UK 10 times per year. Every time they visit the US they have to take at least 2 flights (at least one there and one back) and every time they visit the UK they have to take at least 4 flights (at least two there and two back). Similarly, every time they go somewhere in Oz it will involve at least two flights, so 30-40 dom trips = 60-80 flights (at least).

So based on the information given, the OP would earn at least the number of SCs outlined in my conservative case, with the caveat that I already mentioned, that all flights are eligible for Velocity SCs. And even in that scenario they would exceed the required SCs for Platinum by almost 50%, so there is a fair bit of room for non-earning flights or flights with other airlines, without stopping them reaching Platinum. Also, it's unlikely they would earn enough points quickly enough for much of the imminent travel to be on award flights. After they get to Platinum, they only need 800SCs per year, so there is more scope to utilise reward flights then without losing status.

The OP states he/she is "on track to QF silver within a couple of months" which implies he/she already has a good SC balance and still needs a couple of more months to reach silver so although VA status is easier than QF status to gain, it does not equate to QF silver = VA platinum, which is effectively what you are suggesting.

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. The OP clearly stated at the start that they are just starting to fly a lot, so current/imminent status has no relevance to what they could achieve in the months following that.

Based on your predictions, the OP could almost have WP with both,

Not necessarily. I couldn't even begin to estimate what the QFF SC earn would be if they opted for OW carriers internationally, but in all likelihood it would be much lower, unless the OP was willing to pay a premium to always fly on QF codes where offered.
 

medhead

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You need to be careful with the points total in the email. Is that the last 12 months from flights or the total? I think some points earn that can't match another category is included with flights. In particular voucher points.
 
D

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I think you're missing my point.

To be fair, whether or not I miss your point is not the issue. The OP asked for advice whether it "is worthwhile to get my SC on Qantas FF program or do it on Virgin's Velocity program instead?" You based some of your answer to that on a presumption which may not be correct and may actually misinform the OP.


I'm not suggesting anything of the sort.
Based on the OP data, that's exactly what you suggest. I think you have missed the point here. You don't by chance work for the tax dept. do you? They're the only ones I know that unwaveringly assume a new start-up business will continue to grow without glitches. The fair thing to do is work to the OP data rather than "pie in the sky" assumptions about what the business may do in the future.
I am currently on track to reach Silver level on Qantas in a couple of months.
the OP in this thread would easily reach Velocity Platinum in the space of a few month



The OP clearly stated at the start that they are just starting to fly a lot, so current/imminent status has no relevance
Wow. Surely don't really mean that, do you? The OP said they were just starting to fly a bit more now...........that is not the same as starting to fly a lot now and suggests they were already flying a reasonable amount anyway. I think you're reading something into this that just isn't there.
Just starting to fly a bit more now.
The OP has received some good advice and it's up to them now to decide how that impacts them. As I've said, I wish the OP the very best for their business and I hope for them, that you are right, but if we stay in the real world for a minute, the predictions for future flying will likely revolve around the success or otherwise of the business. I'm sure the OP will be able to work out what status level they can achieve and apply all the advice to that level. Us going on about "what ifs" is Ok and if it helps their understanding of the points allocation than its all good.
 

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You need to be careful with the points total in the email. Is that the last 12 months from flights or the total? I think some points earn that can't match another category is included with flights. In particular voucher points.
Good point.

The 55,000 points I earned from gift vouchers are not listed. The 50,000 points from Partner Gold are also not listed.

I earned a lot more than ~65,000 points from flying but if take the gift voucher earn out from the points earned from flying tge total points earned from flying is ~115,000 which is a little more realistic.

Apologies for any confusion. That monthly points is totally misleading. :confused:
 

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Swanning_it: as I said, based on the OP's expected travel as described by the OP, they would easily make Velocity Platinum if they direct their travel to Velocity earning flights. I've explained in some detail what that statement is based on, including the minimum SC earn on each type of flight the OP said they will regularly undertake. If the reality is that the OP will not actually fly as much as they indicated previously, and/ or that they will primarily fly on award flights, then I'm sure they will understand that my "prediction" might no longer hold true.

I'm still not sure if you actually disagree in any substantive way with anything I have said, or if you are just trying to argue for argument's sake. If the latter, and you really want to delve into semantics, please note "a couple" does not equal "a few". So nothing that I said indicated QFF Silver = Velocity Platinum.

Either way, I'm not sure how pursuing this "debate" is of any use to either you or me, and I'm pretty certain it's not of use to anyone else, so I'll leave it at that.
 

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Meanwhile... The OP has vanished and/or given up in frustration.

... don't entire blame them :)
 
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