Qantas ff ripoff ???

[UP4014]

Air New Zealand stopped direct SYD-LAX flights in early 2003, in exchange for United dropping LAX-AKL. Until Virgin and Delta started their flights in 2009, SYD-LAX direct flights were a duopoly for six years.

Damn I wish I'd been able to fly PanAm.

im obviously not talking about direct flights, just the same airline getting you there.

 

[Downwind]

Don't you get it - its a choice you make. If you do not like the QF frequent flyer program - try another one - then post us the difference. Qantas continues to provide a product in relation to their ff program - learn how to use it to your advantage. I am continually amazed about the expectations put upon a private business - especially Qantas - it is their program - they set the rules. Try flying some of the other airlines across the world and see how you are treated.

Oh I get it alright.....

For the record, its a choice I MADE 11 years ago, based on the representations Qantas made at the time. I certainly wouldn't be making the same decision today as the current program is NOTHING like it used to be.

QF advertise a product but IMHO DO NOT provide that product. Priority Boarding? Priority Luggage?

What more do you suggest I do to use the program to my advantage when everything is stacked against us? FTR, I do not use my points for Y redemptions, but the better value rewards are few and far between and will only get more and more difficult as QF continue to "enhance" the program. As an example, I booked a JASA early April for 120,000 points and a co-payment of $654. The same JASA today (slightly different times, but the same route and fare (U) class) costs the same 120,000 points and $930 or 45% more cash. WHY????? Whats changed to justify this extortionate increase other than greed? The outright cash fare hasn't increased, let alone by 45%!!!

It is QF's program, they set the rules and are free to change them as they see fit, including terminating the program for no other reason than "because they want to". I accept that is not likely, but according to their T&C's, its possible. They are also the final arbiter in any dispute and have no issue with ignoring their own T&C's, logic or reason. They are their own Judge, Jury and Executioner and that is just unacceptable.

You can be amazed by my expectations as much as you like, but my expectations are limited to what QF publish my expectations ought to be. I just want what it says on the box. No more, no less. For the record, I'm treated FAR better by AA and CX than I am by QF.

Slightly OT, but an article in the Jan/Feb edition of Australian Aviation magazine titled Meeting Expectations just about sums up the Qantas situation for me, so much so, that I sent a copy of it to Customer Care.

The main points were:

1. Predictability and product consistency are what passengers want, i.e.: passengers like it when they know what they are going to get,
2. Infrequent flyers notice when their experience doesn't match the glossy PR shots online, and,
3. Consistency of product makes for customers whose expectations are met, almost regardless of whether that product is good or bad.

Qantas can continue to push the boundaries of customer loyalty at its peril.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Don't you get it - its a choice you make. If you do not like the QF frequent flyer program - try another one - then post us the difference. Qantas continues to provide a product in relation to their ff program - learn how to use it to your advantage. I am continually amazed about the expectations put upon a private business - especially Qantas - it is their program - they set the rules. Try flying some of the other airlines across the world and see how you are treated.

whats different about a frequent flyer program is the length of time taken to accrue and award. people have expectations and goals (maybe a flight to Bali etc) and they are working towards that only to find the posts have moved. that can be very frustrating.

as late as 2008 the press releases were still giving the implication that there were classic awards 'for free'... anyone starting towards an award then will be sadly confronted by a completely different environment now.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I read all sorts of moronic comments on mainstream news stories about this topic all the time such as "QUANTAS is a rip-of. What is ACCC doing about this?!?!' (it's amazing these FF members who are so passionate about the program to provide their opinion can't even spell the name of the airline).

Seriously - they're a private company offering products and services for sale. There is absolutely no obligation to use them, or any airline, or ever even go to an airport. No-one is forcing you to fly Qantas/spend money on your CC to collect FF points to eventually redeem for flights for a price they set.
I don't know why people expect the Government to constantly intervene when a private company operates a business to make a product. Just because the average moron is too stupid, lazy and ignorant to consider other options they think the Government should penalise the companies in question.

Don't like them? Don't use them.

You don't hear people screaming for the ACCC when McDonalds raises the price of it's Big Mac.

no... but you WOULD expect the government to step in if say for example Ford offered a rewards program where you could get a car if you took out their credit card and earned 1,000,000 points, but then they changed that to make it 2,000,000 points. of said you can still have you car but it's now 1,000,000 points and $10000.

 

[AndyGoodyear]

QANTAS FF RIPOFF ???
WOW Qantas called up to use FF points to USA return used be about approx $250-$300 (few years ago)tax return now $850 TAXES is this true ? Put in correct area if needed BUT blown away. 96000 points $1300 cheapest Qantas to States W/OUT points other airline $1050 ???? SO CANNOT be JUST TAXES


IF TRUE CURRENT AFFAIR AND TODAY TONIGHT TO BE INFORMED

Personally I think the FF value is very good - of course it depends on where/when you are booking.

I have booked a return trip to LAX for this coming Christmas for a total of 135,000 points and $870. While this may seem like a lot I am flying outbound in economy and returning in premium economy. The cost of a straight economy return with any other airline for Christmas time was $2500 minimum and that was flying via another destination. With the fact these are also ASA's there will be a minimum point earn of 16855 before any status bonus, effectively taking the cost in points down to 118,000 points.

You just need to look around, search different dates, be flexible with flying times and you can find a bargain. I don't think A Current Affair or Today Tonight will care - after all this is a loyalty program. The airline does not owe you anything.

 

[AndyGoodyear]

Personally I think the FF value is very good - of course it depends on where/when you are booking.

I have booked a return trip to LAX for this coming Christmas for a total of 135,000 points and $870. While this may seem like a lot I am flying outbound in economy and returning in premium economy. The cost of a straight economy return with any other airline for Christmas time was $2500 minimum and that was flying via another destination. With the fact these are also ASA's there will be a minimum point earn of 16855 before any status bonus, effectively taking the cost in points down to 118,000 points.

You just need to look around, search different dates, be flexible with flying times and you can find a bargain. I don't think A Current Affair or Today Tonight will care - after all this is a loyalty program. The airline does not owe you anything.

Second thoughts - Today Tonight and A Current Affair probably will care as their reports are full of cough stories anyway.

 

[blu]

Just looked at JQ's "Fees & Taxes" for SYD-HNL = $115.
Would that indicate there's no fuel surcharge?

 

[Ansett]

Just looked at JQ's "Fees & Taxes" for SYD-HNL = $115.
Would that indicate there's no fuel surcharge?

MEL -HNL VIA SYD

[h=3]Booking Summary[/h]

• Total AUD
• $1,647.50

[TABLE="class: closed"]


[TR]

[TH="colspan: 2"]Departing[/TH]
[/TR]


[TR]

[TH="colspan: 2"]Departing Total[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TD="colspan: 2"]$813.34[/TD]
[/TR]


[TR]

[TH="class: title hidden, colspan: 2"]Departing flight[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: date-time hidden, colspan: 2"]7:30 AM Tue Jul 09 2013[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: title, colspan: 2"]Fares[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fares-adult"]

[TH]Adult[/TH]

[TD]1 x $704.90[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fares-adult-free"]

[TH]Adult FREE[/TH]

[TD]0 x $0.00[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: section narrow, colspan: 2"][/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: title fee-and-tax, colspan: 2"]Fees & taxes[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fees-adult"]

[TH]Adult[/TH]

[TD]1 x $108.44[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fees-adult-free"]

[TH]Adult FREE[/TH]

[TD]0 x $108.44[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: departing-adt-fee fees-breakdown7"]

[TH]AU Int Passenger SC[/TH]

[TD]$15.75[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: departing-adt-fee fees-breakdown6"]

[TH]Safety and Security[/TH]

[TD]$3.98[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: departing-adt-fee fees-breakdown5"]

[TH]Passenger Movement[/TH]

[TD]$55.00[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: departing-adt-fee fees-breakdown4"]

[TH]US Custom Fee[/TH]

[TD]$5.34[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: departing-adt-fee fees-breakdown3"]

[TH]US INS[/TH]

[TD]$6.80[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: departing-adt-fee fees-breakdown2"]

[TH]US APHIS[/TH]

[TD]$4.86[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: departing-adt-fee fees-breakdown1"]

[TH]US Int TT[/TH]

[TD]$16.71[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: section, colspan: 2"]Optional
Extras[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: title, colspan: 2"]Value Bundles[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR="class: bundles-adult"]

[TH]Adult[/TH]


[TD]1 x $0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



[TABLE="class: open"]


[TR]

[TH="colspan: 2"]Returning[/TH]
[/TR]


[TR]

[TH="colspan: 2"]Returning Total[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TD="colspan: 2"]$834.16[/TD]
[/TR]


[TR]

[TH="class: title hidden, colspan: 2"]Returning flight[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: date-time hidden, colspan: 2"]9:15 AM Wed Jul 17 2013[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: title, colspan: 2"]Fares[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fares-adult"]

[TH]Adult[/TH]

[TD]1 x $794.90[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fares-adult-free"]

[TH]Adult FREE[/TH]

[TD]0 x $0.00[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: section narrow, colspan: 2"][/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: title fee-and-tax, colspan: 2"]Fees & taxes[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fees-adult"]

[TH]Adult[/TH]

[TD]1 x $39.26[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: fees-adult-free"]

[TH]Adult FREE[/TH]

[TD]0 x $39.26[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: returning-adt-fee fees-breakdown4"]

[TH]AU Int Passenger SC[/TH]

[TD]$15.75[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: returning-adt-fee fees-breakdown3"]

[TH]US PFC[/TH]

[TD]$4.37[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: returning-adt-fee fees-breakdown2"]

[TH]US Int TT[/TH]

[TD]$16.71[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR="class: returning-adt-fee fees-breakdown1"]

[TH]US PCASSF[/TH]

[TD]$2.43[/TD]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: section, colspan: 2"]Optional
Extras[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR]

[TH="class: title, colspan: 2"]Value Bundles[/TH]
[/TR]

[TR="class: bundles-adult"]

[TH]Adult[/TH]

[TD]1 x $0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

• Total AUD
• $1,647.50

First upChoose your flight…Then addBaggage, flexibility & more

 

[JohnK]

Easy, use Virgin points. No fuel surcharges to the US just $130 odd government taxes and Macquarie bank fees.

Are the taxes and surcharges on Virgin Australia that low? I am getting close to the required amount of points to the USA and thought I would still have to pay $500+ in taxes and surcharges.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Just looked at JQ's "Fees & Taxes" for SYD-HNL = $115.
Would that indicate there's no fuel surcharge?

Fuel is part of an airlines operating cost.
Anyone who thinks "fuel surcharge" is extra has been sucked in by airline marketing/sales: its a base cost. "Fuel surcharge" has no correlation to the actual fuel cost or fuel consumption
On rewards the mega $$$ extra should be described as a copay fee (if airlines were honest in advertising)

 

[JohnK]

Not sure it is necessary to attack the OP.

I actually think they have a very valid point in that they have saved 96,000 QFF points and it costs $800+ to redeem those points. For some people it takes a long time to save these points and the expectation is a "free" seat but not quite.

Fuel surcharges should be inlcuded in base fare and not levied on frequent flyer redemptions.

The spin used by airlines is very good and the majority of people do not understand all the traps.

And let's not get into the debate about it all being in the terms and conditions. Most people are not able to decipher all the fine print.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

I'm just watching lots of episodes of Frontline on YouTube (you should get around to catching a few before they are yanked off). Anyway, it's not difficult to have a chuckle after watching that show and then see capitalised posts on here screaming for Today Tonight and ACA to get involved, because TT and ACA are such moral custodians. Maybe they would though if the fuel surcharges were caused by a homosexual, crossdressing priest.

 

[JohnK]

and this is where you can see that Y redemptions are such a low value for your points and the reason I will not do a Y ticket on points

96000 points for a AUD400 fare or 192000 for a AUD9000 fare...

Would you value a ~AUD1,200 economy fare at ~AUD11,000 in business class? I would struggle to value business class twice an economy airfare let alone 10 times an economy airfare.

So for me the same equation would be 96,000 QFF points for ~AUD400 value in economy or 192,000 QFF points for ~AUD1,600 value in business class.

Still a much better redemption in business class but for the majority of people 96,000 QFF points would be a struggle and 192,000 QFF points would be out of reach.

 

[travelislife]

Are the taxes and surcharges on Virgin Australia that low? I am getting close to the required amount of points to the USA and thought I would still have to pay $500+ in taxes and surcharges.

Yes this is correct. As someone else linked it is advertised on VA website that they aren't charging fuel surcharges, I don't know if this is a permanent move though.

 

[grussellt]

In November 2011 I booked an award from CDG to SYD (via JFK,MIA (23 hr stopover),LAX,NAN,BNE) and considered it a real bargain at 64000pts (yes I did travel in Y) and 104.31 Euros. I compared the taxes/charges today and find they are 286.34 Euros. I still consider it reasonable value but wonder what caused the 274% increase - the oil price is about the same despite a few ups and downs.

 

[11sjw]

In November 2011 I booked an award from CDG to SYD (via JFK,MIA (23 hr stopover),LAX,NAN,BNE) and considered it a real bargain at 64000pts (yes I did travel in Y) and 104.31 Euros. I compared the taxes/charges today and find they are 286.34 Euros. I still consider it reasonable value but wonder what caused the 274% increase - the oil price is about the same despite a few ups and downs.

Simple desire to make a profit.

 

[Nizar]

In November 2011 I booked an award from CDG to SYD (via JFK,MIA (23 hr stopover),LAX,NAN,BNE) and considered it a real bargain at 64000pts (yes I did travel in Y) and 104.31 Euros. I compared the taxes/charges today and find they are 286.34 Euros. I still consider it reasonable value but wonder what caused the 274% increase - the oil price is about the same despite a few ups and downs.

Was this a YASA or Classic Award ?
How did you book this fare and with which airline ?

Thanks

 

[grussellt]

It was a Classic Award:
CDG-JFK AA45
JFK-MIA AA1769
MIA-LAX AA231
LAX-NAN FJ811
NAN-BNE FJ921
BNE-SYD QF529

It was planned to be a more direct route but availability for 2 pax resulted in a few extra flights. It was booked as multi-city on QFF. The overnight stop in MIA (23h 25m) was very welcome as I hadn't been back there since a one year stay in 1968/9.

 

[The Rok]

I remember when 30c cones went up to 50c - people rioted!!!

In my day they were called 99's and cost 99 cent. Imagine my disgust to learn they now cost about $3?

 

[JohnK]

I still consider it reasonable value but wonder what caused the 274% increase - the oil price is about the same despite a few ups and downs.

A few years ago fuel surcharges were reduced back to normal levels as the price of fuel dropped.

Now they are increasing fuel surcharges again because they cannot be bothered adjusting the base airfare and affecting commission payouts etc.