Qantas deliberately hiding QF awards to QFF and pushing JQ seats instead?

[Princess Fiona]

One shouldn't have to "be in the know" in order to not get fleeced. Points to pay should be an option when searching for a cash fare, completely misleading consumers when you click "Use Points" and are shown cash fares that you can pay with your points (at an exorbitant rate).

Why do you think this is the default search result? Why do you think you have to take additional steps to use your hard earned points correctly? Why not the other way round, show classic awards initially and let consumers click additional buttons to "pay with points" if no awards available

The setup is misleading and done entirely for profit

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2024

I'm not ready to confirm the booking yet and will need to transfer some points to AA to book 4 seats. I will try to book one seat when my dates are confirmed. If they are phantom awards then it makes sense, if I can make the booking the Qantas has a lot to answer for

You will not be able to book these seats.
They are phantom.

 

[encryptededdy]

If I were Qantas, why would I bother making award seats available to only AA customers? If I didn't want people to book award seats on that flight, I'd just not release them at all. There's no logical reason why Qantas would do that (outside of an unintentional IT fault).

Don't release seats: I don't lose a revenue seat as an award seat (which makes me less money)
Release seat to QFF: I have to lose a revenue seat, but at least I can please QFF customers (my customers)
Release seat to AA only: I lose a revenue seat, AND I don't even please my own customers

 

[Princess Fiona]

This is a lot of phantom availability
View attachment 366432

It’s not available

 

[p--and--t]

Qantas points never used to be this useless. I think losing Qatar to Velocity was probably the final nail.

What are people actually using QF points for these days? Once upon a time I booked 2x 280k J awards with Finnair, Qatar, Air Jordan, Cathay and more. I'd imagine piecing an itinerary like this would be next to impossible now

My partner and I flew 2 J awards last year across 6 airlines and flying again in April. All booked online. My neighbours got back before xmas with an extensive J award itinerary through Europe.

Unfortunately we have run out of points and had to buy for October. Time for another cc churn.

Just have to look and be flexible. They are there, but not for the inflexible or those who don't book well in advance or those who don't search indirect routes.

Unless it is QF metal it is up to other operators to release the seats - not within QF control.

 

[bussyboy]

Definitely noticing a lack of J options across the domestic network; the last couple of years I had little/no problem crossing the country in business reward seats, now I only see the occasional 737 "J" between Perth and Brisbane.

 

[robbo135]

I'm not ready to confirm the booking yet and will need to transfer some points to AA to book 4 seats. I will try to book one seat when my dates are confirmed. If they are phantom awards then it makes sense, if I can make the booking the Qantas has a lot to answer for

Don't bother transferring your points to AA, you can go through and try make a booking even without sufficient points in your account, it's only at the very last stage will the system tell you that you have insufficient points. With the phantom award space, you won't even get to that last stage of the booking process as you will get an error (as per Princess Fiona's screenshot above).

As for Qantas releasing award seats to other partners but not their own FF members, why on earth would they do that? It makes no economic sense to do so. Qantas rightly gets admonished for their many failures, but lets not create something out of nothing.

 

[RichardMEL]

One shouldn't have to "be in the know" in order to not get fleeced. Points to pay should be an option when searching for a cash fare, completely misleading consumers when you click "Use Points" and are shown cash fares that you can pay with your points (at an exorbitant rate).

Why do you think this is the default search result? Why do you think you have to take additional steps to use your hard earned points correctly? Why not the other way round, show classic awards initially and let consumers click additional buttons to "pay with points" if no awards available

The setup is misleading and done entirely for profit

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2024

I absolutely agree with you to the point that the default view should be for CR's only - or at least it should be simple (and fairer ) process to find CR's. While those of us on the forum are aware of how to do this easily enough that doesn't diminish the fact that it's not simple for casual/new users - and then (some) people misrepresent what they see (all the times I see people claim a reward seat costs 500k points or something and bashing QF for huge devaluation of rewards when that's not exactly the case - but understandable given the way QF has designed the UI).

So yes, it's poor. The only possible reasoning I can see for QF doing it the way they do is the claim that points can be used to book many flights - and making the default for "use points" as being an ASA type pricing meets that claim. Misleading? very thin line there and I tend to feel it doesn't pass the pub test for the average Joe.

Certainly if I do a "use points" type search with many other programs, such as UA or AA or whatever, it's far simpler and gives one the equivalent of CR pricing (though, by the same token, an airline like UA will show both a "saver" or lower cost reward and a far more flexible but more expensive value - and one does have to troll through sometimes to find flights meeting the cheaper mileage reward flight - but at least that can be done via a simple sort function). - it's also much clearer in presentation and no spcific options need to be selected such as "Classic Rewards" filter.

I think QF's ongoing UI design strategies over years now - removing things like fare class details and all this stuff with rewards is neither simpler nor fairrer for the consumer. A conspiracy "for profit"? I can see arguments either way - of course the whole airline exists to make a profit, so the claim seems a little funny in that context - but of course I understand how you mean it.

I'm not ready to confirm the booking yet and will need to transfer some points to AA to book 4 seats. I will try to book one seat when my dates are confirmed. If they are phantom awards then it makes sense, if I can make the booking the Qantas has a lot to answer for

So I guess my point was that you've come out guns blazing at QF for "hiding" reward availability and such - but if you can't actually book the seats AA is showing the way you want (and why would you transfer to AA for potential phantoms?), then the accusation in this instance isn't correct and it's a (likely) case of AA showing phantom availability. Of course, if you can (and under the same conditions as now - ie QFF is not showing avail and AA is for those four seats) then yes, QFF has "something to answer for" as you say

but until then, it's potentially an unfair claim with regards to the thread title and could also be called misleading in its own way if it's not proven out.

Anyway as a general thought on such things usually the "home" carrier (in this example, QF) would provide greater availability for their own program members than what they release to partners - we see this all the time so if anything I would expect AA, BA etc to NOT have availability that QF is not willing to show for their own flights to their own metal.

 

[mannej]

I also have been looking at reward fights to SIN, given their A380s and the wet leased dreamliners from Finair, you'd think there would be SOME availability - the real story here is that there isn't any.

Once again, very sloppy reward allowance from QF.

They should just do one points plane to Singapore every fortnight and Europe every other fortnight.

Slight correction, the AY birds are A330’s.

Qantas points never used to be this useless. I think losing Qatar to Velocity was probably the final nail.

What are people actually using QF points for these days? Once upon a time I booked 2x 280k J awards with Finnair, Qatar, Air Jordan, Cathay and more. I'd imagine piecing an itinerary like this would be next to impossible now

Royal Jordanian?

 

[encryptededdy]

Air Jordan

Royal Jordanian?

Damn, I thought you could fly on Nike Sneakers in your Classic Reward booking

 

[appaz]

Happy to eat my words, the awards on AA are phantom.

Qantas is still a garbage national airline that has been in a very steep decline for sometime now. Their points are by far the worst out of all I have.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2024

Damn, I thought you could fly on Nike Sneakers in your Classic Reward booking

lol! yes Royal Jordanian, and even they are superior to Qantas!

 

[Andy72]

Just completed a trip for 2 to Europe in J on points Nov/ Early Dec, and 3 Y tickets to Canada via LAX on points, admittedly leaving on the 24th Dec but availability still there a week before the flight. Booked a J points ticket from BNE to AKL via Sydney on 22 Dec about 3 weeks out too. Also BNE to Sin via Perth and back via Sydney in Y just after easter last year. For me the points are not garbage as I can earn them the easiest of any airline points in Australia, and I have had no problem with service on flights to the USA, and NZ where its a more time to go via Singapore or Doha.

 

[RichardMEL]

As with everything in life - and specially in the "loyalty" space - the value is subjective based on one's needs, expectations and experiences - and what suits one won't work for someone else. Further, the goalposts change constantly as programs change, devalue, "enhance" and all the rest. "sweet spots" come and go, and the ability to take advantage of certain things can change - and that modifies the value proposition accordingly. Things don't stay static for long imo.

With regards specifically to the value (or otherwise) of QFF points and the program - it really depends on perspective, expectation and need. For example, for me as a solo flyer with high status, I find it relatively easy to get what I want (for example, of four recent trips to and from the US all in J, three of them have involved reward seats for either part or all of the travel). Now, that has been due to both being a solo pax and being able to leverage status to get seat released - often for exactly when I wanted. Additionally I've usually not been flying within the peak demand periods. That's great right? So for me, the program provides some pretty good value when I have needed it to. However I'm well aware that my experiences are a result of my particular situation. I would NEVER suggest to other members "oh it's easy" or "you will get what you want" - specially if the desire is for seats on a peak demand route for a family of four (or more) during high demand periods and in a premium cabin. That's going to be so much harder (and indeed even for those with high status!). In that case, one could argue well it's rubbish and I'll never get what I want and so on - and with that kind of scenario then yes it's a valid opinion to take.

I do feel sometimes some people forget the whole notion of the reward seat idea. The whole thing was born of "what to do with seats we can't sell" issue. While the whole thing has been refined endlessly and yield managed to within an inch over the years, the basic premise I feel still holds - if your airline or hotel or whatever feels they can't sell the asset then offer i up for points to at least extract some yield from it and have it used. The whole science then becomes how does one figure this out to maximise the revenue? The dark magic of yield and revenue management. However it's done those banking of availability of reward seats for high demand routes and times will likely be disappointed - they're high demand for a reason and the airline will be aiming to sell those seats due to the high demand.

And what of the relative value of say QFF vs other programs. Yes, one can book say QF rewards "cheaper" via say AA or BA with minimal carrier surcharges and less cost in their currency (eg: Avios). However there are just as many critics of those particular programs on other grounds. Again, it's what works for particular folks and their perspective - it becomes quite relative.

For those with a less global view of opportunities (ie those not finding it easy or convenient or useful to accrue points/status in other programs like AA, BA, SQ or whatever) and looking at basically VA vs QF from an Australian point of view - there's pros and cons to both programs in terms of partners and global reach and easy to earn and burn points. VA has good access to some premium carriers like SQ, QR, NH etc and could be very attractive value wise. Others may find that QF's partner network from EK to oneworld and others to be superior for their needs - both in earn and burn.

Many of us who are fortunate enough to have the ability to do so will have "investment" in multiple progrtams/alliances to be able to mix and match options depending on need and availability (for example, I've mixed both oneworld and Star Alliance options across a trip).

Could QFF is better for the members? oh, absolutely and without doubt. Could QF have a more transparent and actually simpler to use UI for booking? Yep. Could they actually fix the IT to allow for proper partner reward access, seamless and timely ticket reissues and all that that others seem to be able to do pretty well? uh.. well.. "maybe" is the most positive I can be at this point on that lol. Is it "garbage"? All depends on one's POV - yes for some, no for others.

Everyone's mileage will vary. Pun intended.

happy flying (but not on phantom availability)

 

[Mr Bill]

It's a pity that the airline filter on the QF booking app isn't more inclusive. Currently it's QF or "other". Ideally, I would prefer all partner airlines listed including those under the QF umbrella, especially Jetstar , so they may be deleted from any search should one desire.

 

[tdimdad]

Qantas has a lot to answer for

What do they have to answer for? Why and to whom? The only party the QF business management is accountable for is the company board and consequently the shareholders for running a profitable and attractive business. What awards and where they choose to release is completely up to them with no explanation to us needed. Of course, its disappointing if you'd love to spend your QFF points on something that they've chosen to sell only at commercial fares but that's their right. No more special than your local coffee shop saying "on Tuesdays we serve soup only for lunch, try next door if you want something different".

To me the QFF points give value on two fronts: upgrade lottery on long-haul (best monetary value in my use) and grabbing some domestic flights which are above the sale prices but still available as CR's. Everything else QFF offers seems of low value to me.

 

[BAM1748]

I don't use the App but never felt there was a problem with the web site booking page.

Reading deeper into the OP comments seems he feels QF isn't for him for more than just this reason. Time to move on another airline that meets your requirements and meets your standards.

 

[appaz]

It's a pity that the airline filter on the QF booking app isn't more inclusive. Currently it's QF or "other". Ideally, I would prefer all partner airlines listed including those under the QF umbrella, especially Jetstar , so they may be deleted from any search should one desire.

I find their website and app really poor for searching for awards, using seats.aero helps but overall it certainly isn't setup to easily find value

 

[appaz]

I don't use the App but never felt there was a problem with the web site booking page.

Reading deeper into the OP comments seems he feels QF isn't for him for more than just this reason. Time to move on another airline that meets your requirements and standards.

I've been avoiding them for years. A happy Krisflyer, Alaskan Mileage Plan and AAdvantage user. I've got over 600k QFF that I'd like to use at some point! As mentioned many times previously, Qantas is by far the worst for searching and booking award travel

 

[p--and--t]

I've been avoiding them for years. A happy Krisflyer, Alaskan Mileage Plan and AAdvantage user. I've got over 600k QFF that I'd like to use at some point! As mentioned many times previously, Qantas is by far the worst for searching and booking award travel

There are plenty of toasters in the store. Plus no need to travel QF for a minute, just book rewards on other OW airlines with QF points. Whether they are available or not has nothing to do with QF, just the airline flying.

 

[MelbFlyer]

What are people actually using QF points for these days? Once upon a time I booked 2x 280k J awards with Finnair, Qatar, Air Jordan, Cathay and more. I'd imagine piecing an itinerary like this would be next to impossible now

It's still possible - I booked a 318k OWA last year in February for a trip in October last year (8 months in advance). I had flights on QF, BA, and AY in business.

It was hard to find (I initially had a JQ leg therefore it wasn't OWA capped) but managed to replace it with QF at a later stage which then fell under the OWA cap, but you have to be flexible with routes and dates as well as having LOTS of patience / time if calling Qantas to modify your booking.

I had well over 100+ calls with Qantas to attempt to add / change flights because for some unknown reason, they are unable to see in their internal system, flights / reward seats that are showing online in the multi city search tool.

 

[OATEK]

I finalised dates for our next trip to UK/EU in Oct/Nov, but of course was too late for any QF F, J or PE reward seats. Being WP I rang to get 2 x PE seats released SYD-SIN on QF1 (PE Buckets were W9,R9,T5,Z0). Took 10 mins to have 2 seats released and booked. This is a positioning flight for EK SIN-DXB-LGW and return, and suits me to have PE for a day flight, and then the EK flights in J. So QF/QFF points can still provide value, although not my preferred airline.