Qantas cancelling accounts of people who buy/sell points on "black market"

[LittleFokker]

A "good analogy" is an oxymoron.

Huh? I might have had too much Bacardi & Coke tonight (it is 12:17am in FokkerCentral) but how does that make sense?

Maybe oxymoron "does not mean what you think it does"

 

[trixydoza]

why should someone's hard earned points be worth the same as someone's cheaply earned points?

Because points is points. It's really not that difficult a concept. This is why earning them the hard way is a fool's game.

 

[anat0l]

Not a good analogy - the account is "suspended" pending the investigation - it is not closed, nor are the points forfeited.

Well you aren't condemned whilst you are in jail, nor have you any conviction against you. If it turns out your are innocent, or found not guilty, you're set free, even if this happens in advance of the trial. If you turn out to be guilty, then you remain in the slammer and you are formally convicted.

The point in both is that you are effectively impaired in your ability to exploit until you are proven either innocent (your privilege is restored) or guilty (your imposed impairment is permanent).

Anyway, it was meant to demonstrate that most of these disciplinary procedures are a case of "freeze first, restore later". Some people who have been subjected to audits (by United, AAdvantage, IHG, etc.) recall their terrible tales of not having access to their accounts and getting very bland, non-informative responses from customer service lines (who are bound to confidentiality regarding what is happening to the account, including the details of the specific allegation). Some of these were "innocent" so basically suffered only from the mild to not-so-mild inconvenience of not being able to exploit their balances whilst the audit was being conducted.

To add to this, in the case of an audit, the onus is on you to prove you did nothing wrong. If you do nothing when subjected to an audit, more frequently than not you will have presumed to have conceded that you did something wrong, and you will be subjected to breach procedures.

 

[LittleFokker]

Because points is points. It's really not that difficult a concept. This is why earning them the hard way is a fool's game.

Exactly! As an analogy (LOL) let's say I am a "management consultant". I earn my living by borrowing your watch and then charging you for telling you the time. You make your living digging ditches in far north Queensland. My dollar is earned the easy way....

 

[lovetravellingoz]

That's a question for another thread though. The solution is simple. Have a flag in database to indicate how points were earned and points earned via flying are worth more than points earned via credit card churning.

Why?

NIMBYism is alive and well.

We all have vested interests and naturally one's own points "backyard" is often considered to be the most important.

The QFF Points program is very profitable for Qantas. Without it Qantas may well have crashed long ago. If the QFF had to survive off points from flying it would be dead, and Qantas probably would be dead too.

Change is evitable. Embrace it. Earn points only by flying if you wish, but remember that without the greatly expanded QFF points program that you would probably have no ability to earn points from actual flying on QFF.

Remember too that paid flights are cheaper than ever, and that airlines need more revenue than can be generated from selling tickets alone.


A point earnt, is a point earnt.
A $ earnt, is a $ earnt.

When I spend either a point or a $ it matters not how it was earnt, whether it was easily come by, or required great effort....or even if it was won, or obtained 100 points at a time filling in a survey. We all have choices.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Huh? I might have had too much Bacardi & Coke tonight (it is 12:17am in FokkerCentral) but how does that make sense?

Maybe oxymoron "does not mean what you think it does"

It means a figure of speech in which contradictory terms appear in conjunction.
Analogies are a poor debating technique.
So "a good analogy" is a contradiction in terms.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Why?

NIMBYism is allive and well.

We all have vested interests and naturally one's own points "backyard" is often considered to be the most important.

The QFF Points program is very profitable for Qantas. Without it Qantas may well have crashed long ago. If the QFF had to survive off points from flying it would be dead, and Qantas probably would be dead too.

Change is evitable. Embrace it. Earn points only by flying if you wish, but remember that without the greatly expanded QFF points program that you would probably have no ability to earn points from actual flying on QFF.

Remember too that paid flights are cheaper than ever, and that airlines need more revenue than can be generated from selling tickets alone.

Paid flights are cheaper than ever?
Have you tried booking flights between Sydney and Melbourne since the end of the domestic capacity war?

 

[anat0l]

We all have vested interests and naturally one's own points "backyard" is often considered to be the most important.

Well his vested interest is clearly that he flies a lot. He should be more entitled to seats that he wants than, say, you, who does it mainly with credit cards.

This is an old chestnut argument; this is not the correct forum topic to start it up again.

The QFF Points program is very profitable for Qantas. Without it Qantas may well have crashed long ago. If the QFF had to survive off points from flying it would be dead, and Qantas probably would be dead too.

Massive call IMO, and again not really the place to discuss it, but suffice to say FFPs are largely profit centres for many airlines around the world. The big 3 USA carriers is another classic example (it didn't shield them from filing Ch 11s, but it probably softened the whole blow).

Change is evitable. Embrace it.

As can be seen from this board, no one is prepared to embrace change unless it benefits their interests. You are not immune to that.

 

[anat0l]

Paid flights are cheaper than ever?
Have you tried booking flights between Sydney and Melbourne since the end of the domestic capacity war?

I believe you might need to consider a much larger historical timeline

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I believe you might need to consider a much larger historical timeline

I draw your attention to the words " than ever".

 

[LittleFokker]

It means a figure of speech in which contradictory terms appear in conjunction.
Analogies are a poor debating technique.
So "a good analogy" is a contradiction in terms.

OH! I get get it now:

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Paid flights are cheaper than ever?
Have you tried booking flights between Sydney and Melbourne since the end of the domestic capacity war?

Yes while things go up and down, flights are dirt cheap to what they were.

My very first paid flight when I started at a particular company about 3 decades back was MEL-SYD and was almost a $1000 return, and a $1000 today is worth , way, way more now.

I have this year booked several MEL SYD flights for about $100. Tiger has had sone for under $50. Flying is cheap to what it was.

 

[anat0l]

I draw your attention to the words " than ever".

So you are then using a very precise unit concept of time and history...

 

[esseeeayeenn]

You might not be the best arbiter of debate technique.

Possibly not. Although I was a member of the WA Schools Debating Team and then a member of the WA "adult" debating team.

 

[trixydoza]

a member of the WA "adult" debating team.

Did the official team name have scare quotes as well? Not generally a good sign.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Did the official team name have scare quotes as well? Not generally a good sign.

Well its official name was just the WA Debating Team.
I put "adult" in there to distinguish it from the aforementioned schools team.

 

[LittleFokker]

Well its official name was just the WA Debating Team.
I put "adult" in there to distinguish it from the aforementioned schools team.

They kicked cough in 2007

OK, that's enough! good night.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

As can be seen from this board, no one is prepared to embrace change unless it benefits their interests. You are not immune to that.

While true, I am not trying to hark back to the "Good Ole Days" when points were earnt only from flying. Pretty sure that other ways of earning points quickly came in and I certainly remember earning points in multiple ways three decades back not long after I started flying for work.

We can, and do, all choose what points we wish to chase. Some "bend the rules". Some outright break them such as in the link provided by the OP.

FF Programs provide many opportunites. My philophosy is to embrace all that arise that as you say benefit my interest, and to engineer things as much as possible so that I maximise my earn. Not least of these was making use of FF programs from outside of Australia.

However if there is one thing that I have learnt is that T&C can be your best frend, but also an enemy if you disregard it.

One can also take measured risks on things, but can come unstuck. With repect to the OP's post I supect that those that have not sold points often have been ok, but those that have overdone it have left such a trail that in this age of data-mining have unwittingly dobbed themselves in!

 

[JohnK]

Remember too that paid flights are cheaper than ever, and that airlines need more revenue than can be generated from selling tickets alone.

That is not quite true. Flights today are more expensive than they were 5 years ago. Awards are more expensive as fuel surcharges have also increased in that time.

First they devalued the points that one earned from flying and then flooded the market with cheap points means that I cannot use my points the way I want to use them so I stop stockpiling points and look at other avenues such as booking SQ flights, AAdvantage awards, United awards etc. Where I was earning ~2400SCs/year a few years I am now struggling to earn 1200Scs/year. That can't be good for Qantas' bottom line?

 

[trixydoza]

That is not quite true. Flights today are more expensive than they were 5 years ago. Awards are more expensive as fuel surcharges have also increased in that time.

First they devalued the points that one earned from flying and then flooded the market with cheap points means that I cannot use my points the way I want to use them so I stop stockpiling points and look at other avenues such as booking SQ flights, AAdvantage awards, United awards etc. Where I was earning ~2400SCs/year a few years I am now struggling to earn 1200Scs/year. That can't be good for Qantas' bottom line?

On the one hand, they probably don't need people earning status on the cheapest possible fares.

On the other hand, they *love* people clueless enough to accumulate points and not use them.