Poor experience when using points to upgrade

[dec540]

Hi all,

I want to preface this thread by stating I am an infrequent flyer with red status, though I have flown 8 virgin flights (both domestic and international) in the last 30 days. I don't anticipate it will be long before I am Silver / Gold given my recent increase in travel.

I recently chose to upgrade a flexi fare to business from OOL to SYD for myself and a guest, at a cost of 9,800 points. Our meeting ended early so we requested a change to an earlier flight. Unfortunately there were no business seats available and I was advised there was no refund of points spent - No worries, I understand the business seats on the later flight would be vacant as a result of our change.

The flight was boarding in 15 minutes and I requested entry to the lounge (which was included in the upgrade) to print a document. I was refused entry to the lounge on the basis that since there were no business seats, I wasn't entitled to any of the business class benefits.

This left a very sour taste and doesn't align with what I have come to expect from the Virgin brand. Generally staff are friendly and willing to facilitate basic requests, yet we found the staff to be rude and to treat us like we were worthless because we didn't have a higher status. Their solution was to purchase a year of lounge membership (rubbing salt in the wound!)

I would've expected to be encouraged to utilise lounge facilities (albeit for 15 minutes) and to be provided with some sort of upgraded beverage or snack option on my flight, given there was no refund of the points spent.

Sorry for the rant, I want to understand if others have received similar service and if this is what I should come to expect..

 

[sjtaylor]

I understand your situation to be an unfortunate one, but when you agreed to an earlier flight in Economy (whether you were given fly-ahead gratis or not is another matter) you basically forfeited all business rights along with your ticket; they don't let you have your cake and eat it too I'm afraid.
Probably not helpful, but in future I'd take advantage of the lounge access if I had a cozy hour to spare; business upgrades sell out extremely quickly.

 

[smit0847]

Where did you request an earlier flight? At check in?

 

[robd]

Where did you request an earlier flight? At check in?

I was thinking the same thing. If you had made your request to the Lounge Angels, you would have already had your feet through the door.

 

[dec540]

I understand your situation to be an unfortunate one, but when you agreed to an earlier flight in Economy (whether you were given fly-ahead gratis or not is another matter) you basically forfeited all business rights along with your ticket; they don't let you have your cake and eat it too I'm afraid.
Probably not helpful, but in future I'd take advantage of the lounge access if I had a cozy hour to spare; business upgrades sell out extremely quickly.

I understand the policy in the sense that I forgo all benefits, I just don't understand the logic.. It's logical to not offer refunds on the points, given the seats on the later flight are likely to remain vacant. However, there is no logical reason to forbid lounge entry, apart from being difficult.

Where did you request an earlier flight? At check in?

The request was made at the lounge.

I was thinking the same thing. If you had made your request to the Lounge Angels, you would have already had your feet through the door.

I'm not sure who gave them the 'angel' title, but I can certainly think of more appropriate titles for the ones I dealt with yesterday. Such a title would feature 'condescending' in it..

 

[CJEMNMAC]

Whilst I do understand the point you are making, there are a few comments IMO

Velocity redeem single lounge visits for 10000 pts per head ( so access unlikely for 9800 points you did pay in any case or $65 per entry I think ) and you have suggested that along with lounge access you feel you should also have had upgraded snack / beverage.

I think as you say in your OP, the infrequent flyer with red status is the reason, not because people are wanting to make your life more difficult. Maybe the 9800 points is the trade off for flying earlier

 

[dec540]

Whilst I do understand the point you are making, there are a few comments IMO

Velocity redeem single lounge visits for 10000 pts per head ( so access unlikely for 9800 points you did pay in any case or $65 per entry I think ) and you have suggested that along with lounge access you feel you should also have had upgraded snack / beverage.

I think as you say in your OP, the infrequent flyer with red status is the reason, not because people are wanting to make your life more difficult. Maybe the 9800 points is the trade off for flying earlier

Whilst I understand what you're saying, we were already booked on a flexi-fare which was paid at full price. Therefore we already had the benefit of choosing an earlier flight, before the points were used.

The 9,800 points were to upgrade from flexi to business which included lounge access. I just feel like I have wasted the points with no benefit, when lounge access for 5 minutes to print a document would've come at no cost to Virgin and at least made me feel like there was a benefit (albeit a small one) for upgrading the flights.

Essentially my point is that I don't understand why I pay for a range of benefits but because one benefit can't be provided I lose everything.

 

[mannej]

Essentially my point is that I don't understand why I pay for a range of benefits but because one benefit can't be provided I lose everything.

Essentially once you moved flights forward, you were back to being a Red member flying on a Y ticket.
That is why you lost the benefits as you were not flying business once you accepted the changes.

 

[dec540]

Essentially once you moved flights forward, you were back to being a Red member flying on a Y ticket.
That is why you lost the benefits as you were not flying business once you accepted the changes.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the technical details of what has occurred. I just question as to whether it's the most logical service and whether it aligns with the service standard that Virgin like to pride themselves on.

I just think that the cost for them to print a document / allow access to the lounge would've been so immaterial, that there's no reason why it shouldn't have been granted.

 

[jackthomas]

I certainly can understand your frustration, however I have to agree with other posts in the thread.

You agreed to lose your business benefits and seat, which therefore means no lounge access. Economy PAX without status aren't admitted into the lounge, you were an economy pax despite being on a flexi.

Hopefully you can make your way to Silver soon, which will get you some lounge passes plus the reduced membership rate, very handy! (And welcome to the forums)

 

[mannej]

Don't get me wrong, I understand the technical details of what has occurred. I just question as to whether it's the most logical service and whether it aligns with the service standard that Virgin like to pride themselves on.

I just think that the cost for them to print a document / allow access to the lounge would've been so immaterial, that there's no reason why it shouldn't have been granted.

The reason why it wasn't granted is that you were a Red member flying in economy, how much more logical can it get?

It is not a case of poor customer service as based on your status level and ticket you were afforded the lounge access that you were entitled to.

To think otherwise is overthinking the situation.

 

[dec540]

I certainly can understand your frustration, however I have to agree with other posts in the thread.

You agreed to lose your business benefits and seat, which therefore means no lounge access. Economy PAX without status aren't admitted into the lounge, you were an economy pax despite being on a flexi.

Hopefully you can make your way to Silver soon, which will get you some lounge passes plus the reduced membership rate, very handy! (And welcome to the forums)

Thanks for the welcome.

What I should also point out is that it wasn't volunteered by Virgin staff that we would lose lounge access. It wasn't until we asked where the lounge printing facilities were located that we were advised we couldn't get in.

 

[jackthomas]

Thanks for the welcome.

What I should also point out is that it wasn't volunteered by Virgin staff that we would lose lounge access. It wasn't until we asked where the lounge printing facilities were located that we were advised we couldn't get in.

Sorry to hear that you don't believe the Lounge Angels (or dragons) weren't forthcoming with the information you'd be denied access..Although considering you forfeited your business seat, you were no longer eligible for access... Whether that is ethically right considering you used and lost points, that is the rules.

 

[dec540]

The reason why it wasn't granted is that you were a Red member flying in economy, how much more logical can it get?

It is not a case of poor customer service as based on your status level and ticket you were afforded the lounge access that you were entitled to.

To think otherwise is overthinking the situation.

I'm not here to start an argument with you but I think that logic fails to consider the bigger picture here. From a consumer perspective, I am not looking at the colour of the card or the letter on my ticket following check-in, but the facilities that were listed at time of sale. I wasn't advised the lounge access was removed from these benefits until after the downgrade of seat occurred and nothing was done to try to resolve the issue when all it would've taken is 2 minutes of a staff members time to print 3 pages..

 

[mannej]

I'm not here to start an argument with you but I think that logic fails to consider the bigger picture here. From a consumer perspective, I am not looking at the colour of the card or the letter on my ticket following check-in, but the facilities that were listed at time of sale. I wasn't advised the lounge access was removed from these benefits until after the downgrade of seat occurred and nothing was done to try to resolve the issue when all it would've taken is 2 minutes of a staff members time to print 3 pages..

But you are arguing, that's the thing.

Put simply without any fluff - a red member (without club membership) traveling in Y is not entitled to lounge access.

On the flip side your logic fails to see the chain of command.

 

[anat0l]

Essentially, when you consented to change your flight which was already upgraded, you consented to forfeit your upgrade completely. According to the Terms and Conditions, the staff didn't even have to find you a new Business seat in the new flight; they could have just told you that you are going to lose your points and there would be no upgrade at all.

19.7.4 Members who cancel or change a confirmed Upgrade Using Points within 24 hours of the flight’s scheduled departure, or fail to board a flight for which an Upgrade Using Points has been confirmed (no-show), will forfeit the Points used to redeem the Upgrade Using Points.

Now that you have forfeited your upgrade, you are no longer a Business passenger - you are an Economy passenger, and hold no better rights to anything more than that of a similar passenger who bought the same ticket as you did but did not register / confirm an upgrade.

As it then stands, you have no access to the lounge, nor any other Business Class benefits on board or enhanced Economy experience in lieu.

The staff might have given you brief access to the lounge, but that would have been completely at their discretion. By the rules they did not have to do so and I can conceive no logic that should convince them that it was the only right thing to do.

Whether or not they handled your case diplomatically and professionally (assuming you yourself was not being unreasonable or showing any hint of belligerence) is another matter, unrelated to upgrades.

I don't know what you are expecting from "the Virgin brand".

If you feel so strongly about it, I suggest your writing to Virgin about it. You can also send a private message to the AFF Virgin / Velocity company representative.

 

[medhead]

I think the points were wasted at the point that you threw away the upgrade. what happened is not good, but you did make the choice.

Depending on the time difference I probably might not have moved flights. It is also a very important point that you had a flexi fare, so there was no element of fly ahead or anything like that.

 

[Velocity Frequent Flyer]

Hi dec540,

Could you please send us a private message with your flight details, date of travel and Velocity number. We would like to review the process with the lounge team.
Many thanks,

 

[OzEire]

Im going to break from the crowd and agree with the OP on this one.

Irrespective of the technicalities of what happened refusing lounge access displayed poor customer service in the circumstances. Clearly when the OP walked in to the lounge they had access as a J pax... after being served by the staff that changed. How hard is it to just acknowledge the fact that the OP was already in the lounge, wasn't likely to stay long (flight boarding in 15 mins) and create a happy customer in the mix.

My experience is that VA staff lack of authority, or willingness, to use discretion (which I feel is an LCC legacy mindset from the DJ days). This is a key difference which pushes a certain customers away from VA (in a two airline market this effectively means pushing them to QF).

To the OP, after you have been disappointed by VA many more times, you will come to expect this sort of treatment (it doesn't change much with rising status). By the time you reach WP you will be surprised when VA actually do something positive outside their vanilla service.

 

[anat0l]

Im going to break from the crowd and agree with the OP on this one.

Irrespective of the technicalities of what happened refusing lounge access displayed poor customer service in the circumstances. Clearly when the OP walked in to the lounge they had access as a J pax... after being served by the staff that changed. How hard is it to just acknowledge the fact that the OP was already in the lounge, wasn't likely to stay long (flight boarding in 15 mins) and create a happy customer in the mix.

My experience is that VA staff lack of authority, or willingness, to use discretion (which I feel is an LCC legacy mindset from the DJ days). This is a key difference which pushes a certain customers away from VA (in a two airline market this effectively means pushing them to QF).

To the OP, after you have been disappointed by VA many more times, you will come to expect this sort of treatment (it doesn't change much with rising status). By the time you reach WP you will be surprised when VA actually do something positive outside their vanilla service.

If the OP was already in the lounge I would agree it would seem a bit unfair not to let them in for another 15 minutes, seeing as they've already been admitted and they only wanted to finish one thing they didn't do there.

However, I interpreted this as they approached the lounge desk reception (after clearing security, not in the lounge yet), asked for the change, and then were refused (since their ticket had now changed).

I'm not sure if people would agree with you on the lack of discretion or authority. Many people moved from QF (apart from other factors) thinking that the nouveau Virgin gave them extra freedom and treatment of that kind, whilst still awakening from the supposed "immaturity" of the old Virgin Blue. Indeed, it would've seemed from anecdotal reports that many viewed VA as more empowered than QF in allowing for discretions, and generally being more laissez-faire. On the other hand, many have also reported that they would like Virgin to stop being so free as such and tighten up in order to attract more of the business crowd where serious means serious. That means less discretion in general.

As I said, refusing the OP access based on rule is one thing, and I believe it was a right thing to do. How it was done is another thing unrelated to the system and the overall "discretion system" - the OP said the staff were condescending and rude. I've received a rather cool (serious?) reception from the OOL lounge staff before, but never rude, and many reports I have heard around the place seem to corroborate this. I hope the OP has had some fruitful follow-up via the AFF company representative.