Paid Flight Downgrades

[Randel]

I initially asked this in the QF thread, but didnt want to clog that with questions with regards to downgrades:

Just wondering what the process is for part refund of a downgraded portion of trip.

Will Qantas do this automatically or do I have to lodge a complaint?

How do they work out the $ refunadable?

We booked and paid $ for return J flights from Perth to Queenstown. The mid arvo return flight was delayed, so our connecting flight Sydney to Perth was changed to the last flight of the day.

I checked our seats and noticed that my wife and I were now seperated - one still in J and one kicked to Y. As this was now the last flight of the day, no options for a later flight to enable us to be together in J.

Tried calling Qantas, tried the check in counters and J lounge reception - no luck in getting us together.

Do we wait and hope Qantas will do the right thing?

One other thing - the Domestic J Lounge in Sydney is a disgrace. Filthy.

Got some great feedback:

Put in a claim for ORC.
Your wife should have earned the QFF points and QFF SC on the J seat, as your connecting flight was changed, and your wife didn't get the seat you or she paid for.
Knowing QFF, its not auto.
Keep pestering them, all the better if you do have still got your BP.
Send the claim to QFF, I am not sure of the exact email address.
Do you want the $ back, or do you want the QFF points and QFF SC?
If airline status is important, do the points claim.
There might be a form somewhere, I have not done it, but others on here have.
Wait a few hours and see what other replies you get.
*Maybe post a new thread if no replies on this thread*.

First, I would look into delay compensation as it sounds like an over 2 hour delay, and QF have a policy on this
(https://www.qantas.com/au/en/book-a-trip/flights/compensation-and-refunds-policy.html) Of course it depends on what the delay cause was and how they want to interpret that (see under "Delay under our control/not at home airport")

QF does have an involuntary downgrade policy of sorts, but all I could find is the agency page (https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnec...issues-and-refunds/involuntary-downgrade.html) - which only specifies that a customer is entitled to a "Fare Adjustment"

Elsewhere, there's been reference to QF calculating this against the full Y value of the sector in question, rather than the Y fare when the ticket was purchased, and further, fare breakdown on an international ticket like this means the pro rata value of the J seat for SYD-PER within the overall ticket may be different to hat is expected (in the good old days of paper tickets, one could see the "NUC" value of each ticketed sector, but I digress).

The point is, the affected person who was downgraded should be entitled to a refund of a pro rate amount for the SYD-PER leg that was downgraded. Howebver, if one accepts that, then asking for the ORC (Original Routing Credit, or in this case Original Class of Service Credit) probably won't be accepted since QF will suggest that since the "fare adjustment" was paid, then one has, in effect, paid for and only entitled to the Y credit for the flight taken.

I definitely think it's worth pursuing as this is a large part of the overall itin that's been affected for one pax and if the delay was caused by QF (yes, seems so) then they're on the hook for it imo.

good luck.

I agree with that interpretation, although was fortunate to receive both ORC and fare difference (values as you suggest) from Virgin when I chose to take a certain alternative flight in Y to my J one that was cancelled.

So I will log a complaint tonight to see if I can get a refund or something - I still have boarding passes etc.

The frustrating part is that it appears the delay to the 3.25pm flight kicked off with problems 3 flights earlier in MEL in the morning. Refuellers strike first thing in MEL. meant MEL to SYD was delayed, that then delayed SYD to ZQN, which then delayed our ZQN to SYD return causing us to miss booked SYD - PER.

So my question to everyone is whats the best way to try and reduce chances of this happening again. I guess the safest way is to fly the day before, and overnight in SYD? Or fly a few flights earlier and spend extra hours in a lounge?

My wife has a few medical issues (under control), and gets a little nervous flying. She likes the safety blanket of having me nearby in case of problems. I dont think she would ever fly International on her own.

We dont fly a huge amount, but if we can, we tend to pay a little extra for the comfort of business. We dont expect award or risk not getting an upgrade - we just fork out the $$$ to secure the seats.

But it appears as though anytime there are connecting flights - there is this risk of delays/missed connections. Airlines seem to be on such a tight schedule - one small delay just snowballs. How often do delays and downgrades occur - and are they occuring more often?

We generally try and fly QF - perhaps we should be looking at other airlines? Are some better than others? Although I assume something like refuelers strike would affect all airlines.

We fly to Hawaii in a couple of weeks, leaving PER just after midday and due to land in SYD 6.45pm with 8.40pm departure to HNL. So just under 2 hours for connection.

I am now getting nervous

Ironically, our return from HNL has us overnighting in SYD, so shouldnt be any downgrades on that leg

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The issue of refunds is difficult. It’s often not what you expect.

I believe qantas has recently revised ‘compensation’ in the case of downgrades… it used to be woefully inadequate.

Essentially the fare difference may be zero. They do this because the economy fare you travelled in is based in the full fare walk up price… which as you know is very expensive, and can be more expensive than business class.

For a connecting flight like this you may be entitled to zero $ back in the fare itself. But you might get some ‘compensation’ from qantas. It won’t be the true value of your downgrade.

You don’t have many options unfortunately. You could have elected to fly the next day, in business. But probably would have had to lay for your hotel.

You should get the business class status credits… Origianl routing credit.

Absolutely you need to be proactive… the airline may never contact you about the downgrade.

 

[Seat0B]

Absolutely you need to be proactive… the airline may never contact you about the downgrade.

I 100% agree with this. And then be prepared for a loooooong wait. I was involuntarily downgraded to an economy leg for the last part of HND-SYD-CBR flight on a paid overseas flight that should have been HND-MEL-CBR in business in Feb. I am still waiting for my ORC for business as booked to be credited since I lodged a request over 7 weeks ago. Haven't even started on the DSC that I am eligible for, and for any kind of refund because SYD-CBR is cheaper than MEL-CBR.....

 

[rbjhan]

I 100% agree with this. And then be prepared for a loooooong wait. I was involuntarily downgraded to an economy leg for the last part of HND-SYD-CBR flight on a paid overseas flight that should have been HND-MEL-CBR in business in Feb. I am still waiting for my ORC for business as booked to be credited since I lodged a request over 7 weeks ago. Haven't even started on the DSC that I am eligible for, and for any kind of refund because SYD-CBR is cheaper than MEL-CBR.....

There was no HND - MEL flight in Feb. This route got cancelled during covid, and I think only restarted end of Mar or something.
Just FYI, coz I think they will use this reason to not give you much.

 

[Randel]

Just reading some more, trying to understand OTP and the then associated downgrade.

For March 2023, 77% OTP for Qantas on PER to SYD route….

And up to 15 minutes AFTER scheduled arrival time is considered ‘On Time’

So with our upcoming flight to HNL - we have 2 hours between supposed arrival and departure in SYD. And have to transfer between domestic and international terminals….

if we miss that, there are no flights to HNL Sunday, so would be delayed until Monday with potential downgrade…

i guess there is a 77% chance we will make it …

I think I may contact the travel agent and see if they can get us an earlier PER to SYD

Is SYD International J lounge a bit nicer than domestic?

 

[justinbrett]

Just reading some more, trying to understand OTP and the then associated downgrade.

For March 2023, 77% OTP for Qantas on PER to SYD route….

And up to 15 minutes AFTER scheduled arrival time is considered ‘On Time’

So with our upcoming flight to HNL - we have 2 hours between supposed arrival and departure in SYD. And have to transfer between domestic and international terminals….

if we miss that, there are no flights to HNL Sunday, so would be delayed until Monday with potential downgrade…

i guess there is a 77% chance we will make it …

I think I may contact the travel agent and see if they can get us an earlier PER to SYD

Is SYD International J lounge a bit nicer than domestic?

Ideally you want 3 hours for this, but if you’re on one ticket at least you’ll be protected. They’d probably send you via LAX or maybe Tokyo if you miss it.

The good thing is that the terminal is pretty dead at this time so queues will be much shorter than the peak times.

The main issue is the bus frequency, if you are running late and they say there is a wait for the bus, it is probably quicker to catch the public train which is fast and frequent. The bus doesn’t save any securing screening in that direction.

The international J lounge isn’t the best but it is better than the domestic lounge.

 

[Randel]

Ideally you want 3 hours for this, but if you’re on one ticket at least you’ll be protected. They’d probably send you via LAX or maybe Tokyo if you miss it.

The good thing is that the terminal is pretty dead at this time so queues will be much shorter than the peak times.

The main issue is the bus frequency, if you are running late and they say there is a wait for the bus, it is probably quicker to catch the public train which is fast and frequent. The bus doesn’t save any securing screening in that direction.

The international J lounge isn’t the best but it is better than the domestic lounge.

Thanks justinbrett, good info re the public train and lounge

 

[xabialonso]

Lodge a complaint on the Qantas website and see where that gets you. Don't expect a prompt response though.

 

[Seat0B]

There was no HND - MEL flight in Feb. This route got cancelled during covid, and I think only restarted end of Mar or something.
Just FYI, coz I think they will use this reason to not give you much.

Yes I know there was no HND-MEL flight because that’s what they told me as the reason for the change .
That did not stop them advertising that flight and accepting my booking and my money in March 2022 for a flight in February 2023. If they knew there was no flight, they shouldn’t have advertised it. If things changed and they decided to cancel/postpone that route then they should not be taking over 2 months to credit ORC - and I still have to argue about DSC, flight cost etc. arghhhhhh

 

[Randel]

Just a quick update for what its worth. Lodged the complaint regarding downgrade, they came back with a little over $600 refund, back in the credit card by May 10th. So approx 2 weeks. Acceptable outcome I feel.

 

[Seat0B]

Just a quick update for what its worth. Lodged the complaint regarding downgrade, they came back with a little over $600 refund, back in the credit card by May 10th. So approx 2 weeks. Acceptable outcome I feel.

Good outcome! I on the other hand am still waiting to hear back about my missing SC, missing DSC and a fare refund!

 

[Randel]

Yes I was surprised.

Sorry to hear you are still waiting. It is so frustrating that they can do some things efficiently and make some such hard work!

 

[CaptJCool]

Qantas Downgrade Compensation is Woefully Inadequate Matt wrote about this is September 2019

EDIT
found this post from 2014 which has further info about Refund Value calculations and remains active

Downgraded from Business Class.

Is it mere speculation or a wild guess that this thread will reach 1000 posts (with or without another mention of NDA)? It's a lay down misere! Amazing thread ... for all the wrong reasons :(

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au