P1 Fail

[trippin_the_rift]

I wonder what criteria the strategic team go on historically to gauge if they expect the flight to be full? There is a massive difference between "they expect all tickets to bd sold" vs every seat is occupied at flight close.

If anecdotally 7 days prior to the flight the previous year the F cabin was full you would expect a mixture of commercial fares sold in A & F fare buckets and possibly a couple of P class Classic Awards that may have been booked 353 days out.

At this stage (7 dsys prior) upgrade requests for P1 down would not have been processed.

However, if beancounters/strategic team are basing the stats once the flight has departed then that's a whole different ball game.

In this case as the occupants of the F cabin may comprise 8 pax who booked weeks in advance (see second paragraph above) then the remaining 6 pax could well be 2 staff and 4 J pax who had points upgrade requests confirmed at T-60 hours or T-60 mins if there were commercial no shows in F.

I would expect QF to have a system that analyises things similar to this and put different weightings on each variable to come out with an overall score which leads to a seat being released or not.

- Historical flight load of the requested flight, and requested sector on other flight numbers
- Current loading on competing airlines for the same route with +/- of 3 days
- Trending of competing airlines on the same route over the past 3 months
- Historical flight load of competitors during the same season
- Has this pax ever purchased a revenue ticket on this sector? When? Trending behind this?
- How likely is this pax to purchase a ticket if we decline the award seat release?
- What sub-demographic of pax has historically purchased remaining seats this far out from departure? Does the pax fit the profile?
- Are they travelling with anyone? Spouse? Family? Is this business or pleasure?
- Have they booked a hotel at the destination already (are they commited tot he trip)
- What share of wallet% does QFF hold over this customer ON THIS ROUTE
- How many miles does the pax have on competing airlines/could they fund the trip another way, and if so - what is flight loading like on their alternate options?
- Is the pax earn to burn ratio of FF points climing/declining too rapidly based on their demographic? (risk of churn)
- How much more business could we realise from this customer by releasing the seats (are they top tier already?)

There are 100's of factors involved which are crunched and determined in very little time. For an airline it's about being commercial and maximizing seat revenue and unfortunately this means declining requests at times.

I published this article on how data is changing the way we fly and no doubt Qantas uses some of these data points to determine the release of a seat. At least I hope they do... otherwise it's revenue down the drain!

Original article: https://channels.theinnovationenterprise.com/articles/8649-how-big-data-is-changing-the-way-you-fly

But like you say OzBeachBabe - all bets are off until the doors are closed!

 

[emef]

I don't expect anything extra as WP1 except help when things go wrong. Upgrades are terrific but not expected. I book 50% dom as J and all international in J. I don't hold it against Qantas if I miss an upgrade.

 

[boomy]

I wonder what criteria the strategic team go on historically to gauge if they expect the flight to be full? There is a massive difference between "they expect all tickets to bd sold" vs every seat is occupied at flight close.

If anecdotally 7 days prior to the flight the previous year the F cabin was full you would expect a mixture of commercial fares sold in A & F fare buckets and possibly a couple of P class Classic Awards that may have been booked 353 days out.

At this stage (7 dsys prior) upgrade requests for P1 down would not have been processed.

However, if beancounters/strategic team are basing the stats once the flight has departed then that's a whole different ball game.

In this case as the occupants of the F cabin may comprise 8 pax who booked weeks in advance (see second paragraph above) then the remaining 6 pax could well be 2 staff and 4 J pax who had points upgrade requests confirmed at T-60 hours or T-60 mins if there were commercial no shows in F.

I don't know what criteria they use but I do know that I used to request classic awards on the same route (similar dates) quite a few times since becoming P1 and never had any issues getting one or two seats when 5-10 were still available for sale in the F cabin. Sometimes it was done on the spot by the platinum desk and sometimes the request had to be transferred to SST. When talking to SST the answer was usually something like: "don't worry, you're P1, I'm sure we can find a seat for you" and indeed that always used to be the case. This year the SST answer changed to: "only the strategic team can decide about releasing extra award seats, pending all kinds of calculations they do, regardless to your P1 status".
So, where was that mysterious strategic team all these years? I think it was always there but the criteria changed and someone somewhere at QF decided P1s won't get extra awards released as easily as before.

 

[Quickstatus]

Have you - since - called the P1 line and asked to speak with a supervisor and run through why you're feeling so aggrieved and what you think they've failed?

I can hear you say "I shouldn't need to" and I agree, but if this is upsetting you so much that you're posting here (seemingly) every 5 mins:

1. (As I said previously) QF have an ongoing issue of an unhappy P1

2. You're wasting far too much time on people who don't care when you could be getting the core issue addressed.

... just a thought!!

Regards,

BD

the squeaky wheel gets the most grease but being squeaky becomes irritating eventually. I guess thats what he is saying

Even at the highest P1 level, the adage "YMMV" applies and may be even more painful than WP for the same degree of variation due to the heightened expectations by the QF generated marketing and passenger spending efforts.

 

[dfcatch]

View attachment 59715

Here is P1 in action on today's flight. Upgrade on a tail sector coming in from DRW.

Yes - this seems to be the only benefit coming from P1 nowadays.

I noticed that start in late 2014 - where I'd occasionally receive a P1 upgrade on a partial sector (1 out of a 2 sector flight) and it happened around 3 or 4 times on domestic for me).

Whilst I applaud it - but it's not an excuse for not providing what I see as "core" benefits.

 

[dfcatch]

I don't know what criteria they use but I do know that I used to request classic awards on the same route (similar dates) quite a few times since becoming P1 and never had any issues getting one or two seats when 5-10 were still available for sale in the F cabin. Sometimes it was done on the spot by the platinum desk and sometimes the request had to be transferred to SST. When talking to SST the answer was usually something like: "don't worry, you're P1, I'm sure we can find a seat for you" and indeed that always used to be the case. This year the SST answer changed to: "only the strategic team can decide about releasing extra award seats, pending all kinds of calculations they do, regardless to your P1 status".
So, where was that mysterious strategic team all these years? I think it was always there but the criteria changed and someone somewhere at QF decided P1s won't get extra awards released as easily as before.

The Revenue team was ALWAYS there.

Even as a WP, when you make a request, they submit it, often it would be automatically and immediately approved by the "system".

If computer says no, then it gets submitted to the revenue team for manual assessment.

Has always been thus - and your experiences seem to match this process exactly. It's just that you mistakenly thought the P1 SST had any involvement- which they don't.

Agree - that this year, there is almost zero "automatic approvals" and submitted requests are more often denied.

Which I have to say is stupid on the part of QFF, because TBH, the ability to submit a WP request is the ONLY reason why I remain a QF WP and likely to do so in the future.

The second that benefit no longer reliably exists - I have no reason whatsoever to credit to QF.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

The second that benefit no longer reliably exists - I have no reason whatsoever to credit to QF.

Which is only worth doing if you hold elite status with whichever airline you're crediting to.

You may be an AA Exec Plat but chances are your average Joe isn't so it does limit the airlines available to credit to.

 

[dfcatch]

Which is only worth doing if you hold elite status with whichever airline you're crediting to.

You may be an AA Exec Plat but chances are your average Joe isn't so it does limit the airlines available to credit to.

Sure - but this is the P1 thread - so no doubt we're talking about WPs and P1s, or those that aspire to such lofty heights

 

[wandering_fred]

Sometimes it is worthwhile to be a mere SG in more than one program. Especially if you fly E O and Q fares domestically with QF....

At time is is difficult to plan the wandering

Fred

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Sure - but this is the P1 thread - so no doubt we're talking about WPs and P1s, or those that aspire to such lofty heights

It's the QF P1 thread which doesn't necessarily mean these people are all AA Exec Plats also or in Shakespearean terms "one swallow does not a summer make."

A more poignant question would be what OW airline would be the easiest for a QF P1 to get an elite status match with?

 

[wandering_fred]

It's the QF P1 thread which doesn't necessarily mean these people are all AA Exec Plats also or in Shakespearean terms "one swallow does not a summer make."
A more poignant question would be what OW airline would be the easiest for a QF P1 to get an elite status match with?

If you have a history of flying CX and have a flight (or more) in a premium cabin ticketed, an email to MPC ( theclub at cathaypacific.com ) "might" prove useful. Expectations should be more in the leg up category than a match to diamond. YMMV but I was satisfied with a match at the level of my AA LTG.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[RichardMEL]

Agree with all the comments about expectations from members being set - either by initial contact or anecdotal evidence - eg what others report here.

eg: I read that a bunch of P1's have been getting Christmas gifts of LGD during the past week. I've had nothing (at this point). Do I get disappointed and/or annoyed (assuming something doesn't show up) or not? In terms of a gift I've no right to be disappointed because there's nothing to say I have to get the same as the next P1, though one's idea of fairness suggests everyone should, but it's totally up to QF because all of this stuff, like event invites, comp upgrades and so on are all unpublished benefits and clearly vary widely in people's experiences. As an aside I kind of find it hilarious/ironic if I didn't get a LGD bottle given I'd hinted (jokingly!) about the desire/idea a few times this year on threads, but that's an aside.

As others have said what I really want is for P1 to be there when things go bad operationally. It's a support program for QF's more valuable customers - ones who fly QF *a lot* and want the best experiences they can get - to me that means flexibility and assistance when things go south. The best part is with QF that I've rarely had things go south to experience what P1 can and can't do, and in a way that's really great compared to some other airlines (cough, United, cough-who treat even their 1K's like dirty) and I have experienced some instances where I am almost certain P1 has helped a great deal (eg: a few weeks back arriving absurdly early on a SQ inbound to SYD with a dom connection to MEL on QF, EF showing a flight with 0 J seats-in all booking classes, open yet somehow the agent found me one and it was my preferred seat no less.. would that happen to a NB? unlikely). Those little things, weather explicitly due to P1 or not, are valuable.

bottles of wine, books, cricket games and s on.. that's the icing on top for me. It's lovely to have those things, but if I really wanted to go see [whatever] then I'd get my own ticket right? so these are really nice gestures

as an aside, it seems to me that now QF have so many extra products like QF Gold or the QF Movie Vouchers, that maybe P1 could say send folks around their birthday or something say 4 movie vouchers or something - pretty small cost, but a nice little thing to do.

Now other programs I can think of that I would compare, more or less, with P1 would be SQ PPS Solatire(as mentioned earlier), BA GGL, UA Global Services, AA Concierge Key and DL have one too but I can't think what it's called.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

If you have a history of flying CX and have a flight (or more) in a premium cabin ticketed, an email to MPC ( theclub at cathaypacific.com ) "might" prove useful. Expectations should be more in the leg up category than a match to diamond. YMMV but I was satisfied with a match at the level of my AA LTG.

Happy wandering

Fred

How did you get to AA LTG in the beginning Fred?

 

[wandering_fred]

How did you get to AA LTG in the beginning Fred?

Flying a lot between 2005 and 2014 . Started with an exCMB DONE5 when I started avoiding QFF. Three of the years AA EXP, remaining years till 2015 AA PLT. Quite a few segments (PEY/discount biz) on CX both transPac and inter Asia exCMB. And a couple of trips to the USA via SIN/HKG/LHR on QF/BA exAustralia (PEY). The best upgrade was when I had a QF PEY seat MEL-LHR and two 747s with PEY were taken out of service due to some taxi mishaps.

Most flying was done during the part of the program that allowed credit of RDMs to the "bucket". Now it is strictly BIS miles.

At the time I asked MPC "the question" I was also AA PLT and QF SG (comped - possibly after AA LTG arrived)

Memories of happy wandering

Fred

 

[dfcatch]

It's the QF P1 thread which doesn't necessarily mean these people are all AA Exec Plats also or in Shakespearean terms "one swallow does not a summer make."

A more poignant question would be what OW airline would be the easiest for a QF P1 to get an elite status match with?

I think we're talking at cross-purposes here....

I made the comment that the ability to make a WP-request to get an award seat released is about the only reason why I'm currently intending on maintaining WP status with QF (ie. beyond my LTG).

Regardless of current status with AnotherAirline or BA/CX/whoever (even with zero AA status, my comment stands), for most people at the QF WP level, one of the most unique service offerings of being WP is the opportunity to get awards released (over and above those which you could get from a partner redemption). That is a pretty good reason to maintain status with QF.

Take away that benefit (or the reliability thereof) and there is certainly no reason for me to remain loyal to QF (speaking for myself).

 

[boomy]

Agree with all the comments about expectations from members being set - either by initial contact or anecdotal evidence - eg what others report here.

eg: I read that a bunch of P1's have been getting Christmas gifts of LGD during the past week. I've had nothing (at this point). Do I get disappointed and/or annoyed (assuming something doesn't show up) or not? In terms of a gift I've no right to be disappointed because there's nothing to say I have to get the same as the next P1, though one's idea of fairness suggests everyone should, but it's totally up to QF because all of this stuff, like event invites, comp upgrades and so on are all unpublished benefits and clearly vary widely in people's experiences. As an aside I kind of find it hilarious/ironic if I didn't get a LGD bottle given I'd hinted (jokingly!) about the desire/idea a few times this year on threads, but that's an aside.

If they send Xmas gifts to some P1 they should send to all, not that many anyway.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

If they send Xmas gifts to some P1 they should send to all, not that many anyway.

It could be a case of - sending gifts to the top x,xx_ members and some P1s miss the cut. In fact it's possible for a Gold Member to be more valuable to QFF than a Platinum One.

 

[dfcatch]

It could be a case of - sending gifts to the top x,xx_ members and some P1s miss the cut. In fact it's possible for a Gold Member to be more valuable to QFF than a Platinum One.

Yes.... But QF have decided on a system of Status, which is determined by accrual of Status Credits.

Of course if some people are getting an extra pony compared to others....well.......

 

[boomy]

It could be a case of - sending gifts to the top x,xx_ members and some P1s miss the cut. In fact it's possible for a Gold Member to be more valuable to QFF than a Platinum One.

QF keep saying on every occasion P1s are their most valuable members. This is the system they invented and going into bean counting over some gifts is not the right way.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

QF keep saying on every occasion P1s are their most valuable members. This is the system they invented and going into bean counting over some gifts is not the right way.

Oh, I totally agree with you but trying to figure out how QFF is determining who gets what.