P1 Fail

[Flying mermaid]

+ 1 What about the poor sods in F? Bumped to a coughpy 747 F cabin, downgraded to J, additional SYD-MEL sector .... suppose all three are better than a stinky bog!

As long as you are asked what you want - having res make their own minds up as to what suits you is not ....

 

[JohnK]

The OP mentions a huge difference between A380 economy economy and 747 economy. I think they are roughly the same but that is not relevant as the OP feels they paid for A380 economy not just get from A-B in any economy seat. The sames goes for huge downgrade to A330 economy and before that 767 economy. The airline needs to understand that some people don't just want to go from A-B but to travel a certain aircraft.

i.e. I travel to Thailand but I intentionally travel via HKG on 747/A380 as it is a superior product to the A330 and can you imagine how upset I would be if aircraft substituted to A330. If Qantas or any other airline want to do that they would need to offer compensation and decent alternatives. In that situation I may as well go on direct to BKK.

You sell a product that people purchase based on the advertising and past experiences.

I think this is another demonstration of the fact that there are P1s and there are P1s. Not all P1s are equal. Such a shame though that it was such a failure.

I wouldn't expect all Platinum Ones to be equal nor would I expect all Platinums are equal.

I know it's not that easy to fudge Platinum One these days but it's certainly extremely easy to fudge other status levels. I would hope someone earning 1200 SCs on Qantas flights has a mucher higher PCV than someone earning 1160 SCs via YUPPs/KUPPs and only 40 SCs on Qantas flights.

 

[JohnPhelan]

+ 1 What about the poor sods in F? Bumped to a coughpy 747 F cabin, downgraded to J, additional SYD-MEL sector .... suppose all three are better than a stinky bog!

When your class of service no longer exists, then absolutely you should be contacted and presented with all possible options. That's quite a different situation.

 

[UP4014]

I'd suggest he paid for his own flights.

Many people choose a flight or airline based on the aircraft, so I'd be pretty disappointed with a swap too.

With all due respect, a suggestion is not a fact and this is unknown at this stage. (unless the OP confirmed while I'm typing this post up)

While I also choose a flight based on airline and aircraft I don't have a tantrum if my airline of choice have to change it out and it has happened to me as well. As long as it's an aircraft from the same airline of course and not a rental bought in to pinch hit.

My sub aircraft story is LAX to Sydney. LAX, breakdown wait 12 hours for a replacement aircraft. En-route divert to Brisbane for more fuel, sit on the plane 4 to 5 hours then it needs to be substituted because of an electrical problem, miss curfew and have to stay over night. Third aircraft ready the next morning. So scheduled to depart LAX Saturday night and arrived into Sydney Tuesday morning.

Was there any point in whinging, not really, I don't want to take off in a broken plane. Although I was surprised how many passengers complain about it, what they just want to take off anyway and see what happens!:shock:

Matt

 

[UP4014]

It does not matter in the least.

I think it does and my rationale is:

If I paid out of my own pocket for P1 and the loyalty that goes with that I expect service back to me personally.

If my employer pays for all my QF travel I have got there by default and Y seat is a Y seat.

I just have a different point of view.

Matt

 

[UP4014]

Personally I'd never worry about such things. I would however mind a swap for a 747 from a 380 if I was in paid J with an upgrade request to F either pending or confirmed since I've often booked 380 flights for the chance to have an F cabin to upgrade to. However, Stuff happens. It's not like a sub is a deliberate act by QF.. this would cost them at both ends of the trip in terms of moving paid F customers and others around.

I get the upgrade but, but the J seats I have had on the 380 was exactly the same as the J seats I had on the 747 in recent times. (transpacific)

Matt

 

[amaroo]

When your class of service no longer exists, then absolutely you should be contacted and presented with all possible options. That's quite a different situation.

Top of the list for priority intervention - no doubt about it. What comes next? status by class .... probably a long list to trawl thru :idea:

 

[RichardMEL]

I think it does and my rationale is:

If I paid out of my own pocket for P1 and the loyalty that goes with that I expect service back to me personally.

If my employer pays for all my QF travel I have got there by default and Y seat is a Y seat.

I just have a different point of view.

Matt

How would the P1 team know? And why should be a distinction for them (QF and/or the P1 SST)? OK I see it matters to you, but as far as QF is concerned revenue is revenue. Now, they may well know in terms of corporate discounts being applied to fares and the like, and that would make sense, but I'd submit that would be at the higher "QF Loyalty" level to measure PCV and all that stuff, rather than the SST (who no doubt take that PCV value into account,but probably don't know or care how it's derived per se).

My view, as posted earlier, is more that whoever paid for it, you're still flying all those sectors one way or the other.

Personally I'd want to give some sort of kudos to someone who flew 360 Y trips MEL-SYD (for example) rather than the 4 F trips to LHR (or whatever).

 

[RichardMEL]

As long as you are asked what you want - having res make their own minds up as to what suits you is not ....

yes, in the case of paid F where F goes away you need to be given options not just downgraded to J and that's it. Of course this thread is not about that situation nor is there evidence that this has occurred on this occasion.

as an aside, I wonder how it would work if, let's say I am connecting to SYD-LAX from another long trip, let's say NBO-JNB-SYD. I'm in transit and can't be communicated with - if you're QF what do you do when I arrive in SYD? I'd imagine default would be a downgrade on the original flight, but it's not always as simple.

 

[Danger]

I think it does and my rationale is:

If I paid out of my own pocket for P1 and the loyalty that goes with that I expect service back to me personally.

If my employer pays for all my QF travel I have got there by default and Y seat is a Y seat.

I just have a different point of view.

Matt

Presumably you would then be happy if your employer pocketed your points and status credits?

 

[UP4014]

How would the P1 team know? And why should be a distinction for them (QF and/or the P1 SST)? OK I see it matters to you, but as far as QF is concerned revenue is revenue. Now, they may well know in terms of corporate discounts being applied to fares and the like, and that would make sense, but I'd submit that would be at the higher "QF Loyalty" level to measure PCV and all that stuff, rather than the SST (who no doubt take that PCV value into account,but probably don't know or care how it's derived per se).

My view, as posted earlier, is more that whoever paid for it, you're still flying all those sectors one way or the other.

Personally I'd want to give some sort of kudos to someone who flew 360 Y trips MEL-SYD (for example) rather than the 4 F trips to LHR (or whatever).

It shouldn't matter to the P1 team, they can see how it was booked so can find out if they need. It is not within the P1 teams remit to direct the operations dept to put a 380 back on that flight so they can't do anything, if the passenger books a Y seat and gets one on a Boeing instead of an Airbus do you think anyone in QF is going to panic about it. I think anyone who does needs a hard think about their position in life.

I was looking at it from the allowed level of passenger whinging side of the equation. Regardless of the years of loyalty which the airlines give back the following year in status benefits you are only as good a customer to them as your next month worth of business.

Matt

 

[Flying mermaid]

yes, in the case of paid F where F goes away you need to be given options not just downgraded to J and that's it. Of course this thread is not about that situation nor is there evidence that this has occurred on this occasion.

as an aside, I wonder how it would work if, let's say I am connecting to SYD-LAX from another long trip, let's say NBO-JNB-SYD. I'm in transit and can't be communicated with - if you're QF what do you do when I arrive in SYD? I'd imagine default would be a downgrade on the original flight, but it's not always as simple.

Parallel situations in my opinion....

Why can't you be communicated with in JNB? From my experience of those connections, you are probably going to have a lengthy transit in JNB and plenty of time for communication. . More seriously there are always going to be times when things change at the last minute and decisions have to be made that give what appear to be the best outcome. I think 99% of people would be tolerant in those cases. It is the cases where Qantas becomes sloppy and fails to communicate adequately when there is time that is more the issue.

It is also the lack of equipment that is a problem as well - I am in the camp where a change from an A380 to a 747 would leave me pretty pissed off, even if legally Qantas can do it.

I have spent the last 4 months hanging around in other forums and I can't really see that any other carrier is much better than Qantas - and some arguably worse at service recovery. However Qantas does seem to be suffering more than others with constant delays.

 

[UP4014]

Presumably you would then be happy if your employer pocketed your points and status credits?

If that was part of a condition of employment then it would have to be accepted thats part of the deal. But it's not so I'm lucky in that regard as I also get to choose which airline I fly or even if I want to go by train which I do when I can :mrgreen: but that can get very expensive which upsets the boss.

Matt

 

[Princess Fiona]

As people who know me would know, a 747 is an upgrade from a 380 in my opinion.

Agree with the above, part of travelling. A 747 for a 380 is a storm in a tea cup with the above considered. A QF 380 for say a Garuda 380 is not on, but a QF aircraft for a another QF is not a biggie.

So what about P1, there is 350 other people to consider as well some of whom have paid more for this flight than the OP. I'd be interested to know if the OP paid for all his own flights to get to P1 or his employer paid. If he paid then maybe he has more reason to be peeved but otherwise just have to suck up such a terrible disasterious situation as economy on a 747 vs 380 and did I read a drink was not right or something oh dear.

While QF is far form perfect I'm not sure this is the crisis it is.

Matt

I'd be very astonished if the P1's in Y amounted to a count in double digits. It's those passengers that the SST can and should be proactively looking after.
I would regard dealing with their clients when an aircraft substitution occurs on a long haul as something that's well within the remit and capabilities of the SST.
If it isn't then QF should make it so.

 

[medhead]

Is it safe to assume one on those charters was for the Wallabies?

 

[JohnPhelan]

I am in the camp where a change from an A380 to a 747 would leave me pretty pissed off.

I am in the camp where such a change would leave me overjoyed (unless I was booked in F) - there would be much greater chance of the aircraft departing on time!

 

[Flying mermaid]

I am in the camp where such a change would leave me overjoyed (unless I was booked in F) - there would be much greater chance of the aircraft departing on time!

That is true

 

[RichardMEL]

I have spent the last 4 months hanging around in other forums and I can't really see that any other carrier is much better than Qantas - and some arguably worse at service recovery. However Qantas does seem to be suffering more than others with constant delays.

You don't want to know about UA's horrible dispatch reliability for most of this year - most specially their 744's and 787's I

 

[TomVexille]

You don't want to know about UA's horrible dispatch reliability for most of this year - most specially their 744's and 787's I

Good thing neither of their SYD flights is operated by either of those then

 

[RichardMEL]

All of ths back and forward on 380 v 747 goes to tell me is thet obvious - we're all different and we have different preferences and for very different reasons. And like opions they're all valid because they're ours and how we personally feel.. and also like opinions, there's no right answer.

That's also an opinion

To get back to should the P1 SST contact customers or be "proactive" during an aircraft sub IN THE CASE of pax is in Y on the same flight as scheduled, just the a/c type has changed? I think that's highly debatable. I'd also wager that, to QF, in the priority of pax to look after would be your paid F pax first, then your status, then your J's and so on. A P1 in Y, probably not so much. Right or wrong, the fare probably has something to do with the calculations, specially since to most people a Y seat at the date and time is a Y seat. Again, I am not trying to make a value judgement here - as above everyone has their own foibles.

Probably more important is the seating implications. eg if I was in an exit row and got subbed to a non exit row then I think I'd be more than entitled to be pissed off. Even a non exit but preferred seat that disappeared during a sub .. absolutely. However in a situation like this there is probably only so much anyone can do to satisfy everyone. eg shadows being there, then going, and a "friend" appearing in the seat next to you etc.

Remember the airline's priority is to get the people that booked that flight at that time to their destination as close to on time as possible (and hey the 744 will be faster than the 380 on the route ) and safely. If another flight cancelled and everyone was shoved in like sardines, well you know cough happens. Now, I could then say well if the P1 wants out and can be flexible to say move to the next day or day after to the 380 or some other routing, then sure make that happen I think - I'd say that loyalty has deserved some ability to make that kind of thing happen. However most people probably can't change on a whim and would rather get there. Well that shadow went away because joe bloggs had to get there too. In irops like this really all the usual rules and niceties would tend to go out the window as the focus is to get all those pax to LAX (and onward for some) on time.

my bottom line on this is it's an irops situation. Could QF have done better? Absolutely. Have they "wronged" the OP? I don't think so given technically he's been given what he paid for (a Y seat SYD-LAX on QF11 25AUG). Should the SST have contacted him and offered options? open to debate. Possibly, specially if his preferences were known, but I also am not going to jump on QF for not doing anything. I know any number of people (both non-FF and FF) who could care less what sort of aircraft it was they were on and would care more if they get the in seat TV and the like. People on AFF (and similar forums) are a subset of travellers who, in the main, do care and understand the various differences and even then some care to a greater or lesser degree (I mean if I'm in J, for example, on the 744 vs the 380, the only reason I'd potentially want the 380 is for a chance at the F cabin/service, otherwise the seats are the same sort and the 744 is the queen of the sky and a classic and I always love being on one). That's me. others are different. Storm in a teacup imho. A "fail" in terms of meeting the OP's expectations, but not really in other ways. In my view anyway (no offence intended)