Overnight long haul flights why?

[Austman]

And sure there are a smattering of inbound Int.

I had a look at SYD. It's about 45 long haul flights arriving before noon and about 23 after noon. So maybe more than a smattering?

 

[Limewood]

I don't see to many long haul flights like USA to OZ, OZ to HNL or out of Asia to OZ, short haul like PNG, NZ etc. yes.

 

[dajop]

Also note re USA-Australia flights, the midday departures seem to work for USA-Asia for some reason. There's a wave of mid morning-early afternoon departures to Asia from SFO and LAX that would arrive at similar clock times to LAX-SYD flights - ie. late afternoon to early evening (eg LAX -HKG 1210/1855+1).

 

[Austman]

I don't see to many long haul flights like USA to OZ, OZ to HNL or out of Asia to OZ, short haul like PNG, NZ etc. yes.

Hong Kong 12:05 pm 12:05 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Singapore 12:30 pm 12:30 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Nadi 12:30 pm 12:30 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Chongqing 1:20 pm 1:20 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Shanghai 1:35 pm 1:35 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Beijing 2:55 pm 2:55 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Beijing 3:30 pm 3:30 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Johannesburg 3:35 pm 3:35 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Honolulu 3:45 pm 3:45 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Singapore 5:55 pm 5:55 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Nadi 6:20 pm 6:20 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Nadi 6:45 pm 6:45 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Port Moresby 6:55 pm 6:55 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Doha 7:00 pm 7:00 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Abu Dhabi 7:15 pm 7:15 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Honolulu 7:20 pm 7:20 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Kuala Lumpur 7:45 pm 7:45 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Raratonga 7:50 pm 7:50 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Kuala Lumpur 8:20 pm 8:20 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Singapore 8:30 pm 8:30 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Guangzhou 8:40 pm 8:40 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Hong Kong 8:45 pm 8:45 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Nadi 10:05 pm 10:05 pm T1 MORE DETAILS
Dubai 10:30 pm 10:30 pm T1 MORE DETAILS

That's 24. Ok 23 if you take out POM and 19 if you also take out NAN. But there are 11 more if say later than 10:00am is selected.

 

[JohnK]

I'd love overnight flights to Asia arriving early morning and then flights departing Asia around mid morning and arriving here late at night.

SQ, CX provide those sort of schedules bug they're not my preferred airlines. Would love it if Qantas had those schedules abd that's not likely to be happen anytime soon.

 

[harvyk]

I like the overnight flights back to Australia. They effectively give you the day in the destination for free. Whilst I'll do it if I need to, I don't like having to pay for a hotel for the night to simply then catch a flight the next morning, especially if it's a OMG O'clock flight. There is nothing worse than needing to get up at 4am to catch a flight back home.

 

[Austman]

You can see the problem for flights from SE Asia to SYD.

Eg from SIN, to be able to land in SYD before the curfew, the latest flight can't depart much past 10:00am SIN time. So there's only a small window there. It's either up at OMG o'clock in SIN or an overnight flight. With just a few hours in-between where a compromise can be reached.

And if your market includes PAX wanting connecting flights via SYD (or any other east cost airport for that matter), you can't depart much past 8:00am SIN time. Then it really could be up at OMG o'clock for SIN check-in.

 

[browski]

Well let's forget Sydney, it is not important.
But for proper cities like Melbourne, I used to love the 3.00pm EK flight from KUL-MEL arriving at Tulla at around 1am. (Even bloody Brisbane still get that similar EK flight and timing from SIN). That was a civilised flight with a quick escape from the airport and quick ride home to boot followed by a great night's sleep. With that gem moving to a non-stop DXB-MEL flight, the only remaining semi-civilised flights from Asia are the 10.40am departure from SIN on SQ or the 10.30am departure from HKG on CX. But that is still bloody tough with the obligatory hangover.

 

[Melburnian1]

The Asian airlines with multiple frequencies into ports like MEL and BNE have been quite responsive to the need for passengers to have a choice of departure and arrival times.

QF by and large has not.

Its most idiotic schedule must be SYD - HKG where sometimes the long established QF127 (B744, same schedule each day) and the much newer QF117 (variable schedule) depart very close to one another. While slots at HKG will presumably be an issue, there is no sensibly timed day flight back from HKG offered by QF, and that goes for other airports from which it operates as well.

Even with curfew free MEL QF does not offer day flights back from Asia. Yet they might be popular.

It's not just drron who loves daytime flights. If only flight crew would stop constantly trying to shut all the windows when one's body clock says it is 1200, not a time I normally sleep, the day flights would be perfect.

 

[dajop]

Well let's forget Sydney, it is not important.
But for proper cities like Melbourne, I used to love the 3.00pm EK flight from KUL-MEL arriving at Tulla at around 1am. (Even bloody Brisbane still get that similar EK flight and timing from SIN).

I wish someone had such a flight servicing SIN-MEL at around that time. Ignoring DST it could leave SIN at around 3pm and reach MEL at 7:20 later at 00:20. For QF or JQ could be paired with a flight departing MEL at 7:30 reaching SIN at 13:30.

 

[Limewood]

I should have said Oneworld log haul. I would not consider any int. flight under 8 hours long haul.

 

[Austman]

Even with curfew free MEL QF does not offer day flights back from Asia. Yet they might be popular..

But where would they connect to? Even out of MEL there's virtually no domestic departures after 9:00pm. It's better for international departures but is there a big market for long-haul to long-haul connections via MEL? So I suspect it would be only for MEL terminating passengers, which limits the market somewhat.

Still, other airlines can do it.

My recently delayed QF38 departed SIN at 12:00 and arrived in MEL at about 22:30. It was a great flight! (apart from the 12 hour delay...)

 

[Austman]

I should have said Oneworld log haul. I would not consider any int. flight under 8 hours long haul.

In SYD about half the international long-hauls arrive before 10:00am and the other half arrive after 10:00am (including several oneworld airlines). So it's certainly morning concentrated but still a fair share in the rest of the day. But not much from Qantas.

 

[Melburnian1]

But where would they connect to? Even out of MEL there's virtually no domestic departures after 9:00pm. It's better for international departures but is there a big market for long-haul to long-haul connections via MEL? So I suspect it would be only for MEL terminating passengers, which limits the market somewhat.

Still, other airlines can do it...

Austman, fair point about no available air connections at night. However remember that Melbourne has a population not much under five million, and on top of that there is Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong and Gippsland residents to consider to name some. And to the chagrin of some given the failure of government to invest in sufficient ground transport infrastructure, Melbourne is growing at around 100,000 per annum. So my point was that the city and the state of Victoria have sufficient mass to support day flights from Asia into MEL, and as you say airlines such as SQ already recognise that.

Probably just more evidence of QF regarding MEL as very secondary to the curfew-limited SYD.

 

[Austman]

Probably just more evidence of QF regarding MEL as very secondary to the curfew-limited SYD.

To be a bit fair to Qantas, there's no international long-haul arrivals into MEL after 23:20. The next arrival is after 05:00. There's quite a few departures, just not arrivals. So other airlines are not doing it either.

 

[dajop]

But where would they connect to? Even out of MEL there's virtually no domestic departures after 9:00pm. It's better for international departures but is there a big market for long-haul to long-haul connections via MEL? So I suspect it would be only for MEL terminating passengers, which limits the market somewhat.

Probably QF10 is the best example to see what connections there are from MEL .... really it's two QF connectors (which interestingly were driven by QF10 scheduling it seems), that is to AKL & CHC and then an FJ flight to Nadi. A QF flight arriving by 22:30 would certainly fit well with all three flights, and it could, for example leave SIN as late as 12:00, but for SIN, not sure if that offers much over NZ's 8:55am flight except probably lower price .... If it were HKG, a 10:30 departure, which is probably even less competitive than CX's offering..

 

[Austman]

really it's two QF connectors (which interestingly were driven by QF10 scheduling it seems), that is to AKL & CHC and then an FJ flight to Nadi.

Which aint much! And AKL and CHC are already served by EK from DXB (where QF10 originates).

I guess if the market was actually there, they'd be more arriving flights late at night.

 

[dajop]

Which aint much! And AKL and CHC are already served by EK from DXB (where QF10 originates).

IIRC, the AKL & CHC red-eyes only came into being after QF10 rescheduling (used to be only JQ redeyes), so they must have some connecting traffic to help support them. I assume the reason for this is the waves of flights into and out of DXB - QF 10 is suited for the wave of early afternoon departures from Europe, whereas EK's flights to AKL/CHC really only connect with evening departures from Europe. Just a hypothesis.

In any event I expect this approach (day flight connecting to red-eyes) would be more difficult from Asia, where obviously the non-stops to NZ are more competitive. MEL really is an end of the line destination ... it's NZ, Tasmania, MQL, ADL & CBR if coming from anywhere north or west of MEL, and maybe SCL when LATAM eventually starts their service, and of course take out NZ but add in PER if coming from the US .

 

[Austman]

MEL really is an end of the line destination ...

I think AUS in general is mainly an end of the line destination. Domestic connections are vastly more important than international ones.