One way street?

[Flying mermaid]

Many times over the years I have booked a (paid) J or F international flight with Qantas. Where timings work, I try to book into Business for the CBR-SYD legs (increasingly hard to do as most flights are all economy). Quite often as departure date approaches there is an equipment change and it turns into an all economy one. Initially I used to ask for compensation, but was told I had only paid Flex Y, not J so no compensation.

Last year I booked a J flight to Fiji (code share) and had to book all economy planes for the cbr-Syd and Syd-cbr legs. Imagine my amazement a few weeks ago when I realised after multiple schedule changes over the last year, that we were now on a plane that had business for the CBR-SYD leg. I checked my booking class - yes it was flex Y - surely if Qantas can downgrade me it can also upgrade me. I wasn’t prepared to waste time on the phone for a probably fruitless request, so sent off a Facebook message. After a bit of back and forth the answer came back that yes they could do that but for a $175 change fee pp. That was actually better than expected, as I thought it would be no, or change fee + some sort of fare difference. However I declined it as for a short flight it wasn’t worth paying the change fee. Also as a point of principle I felt I hadn’t actually changed anything - if that flight had been available when I initially booked, I could have booked into business at no extra cost. So yes a one way street, they can downgrade you with no compensation, but you have to pay them going the other way

 

[RichardMEL]

nasty.

If you'd been booked into J class on the original CBR-SYD service connecting to F flight (which is normal for domestic sectors to/from int on F fares) then a/c change turned that into Y, they should have done something about that. I guess the F fare types stipulate J if J available and Y if only Y, so an agent looking probably saw only the all Y QFlink flight and the sector booked in Y without taking note of the original booking. It's a difficult one, because more or less those domestic sectors are minimal fare compoents of the international premium fare.

OTOH when initial booking was in Y, but J becomes available I can see why they'd not want to re-do that. specially with a codeshare involved. They'd probably have had to reprice/reissue the ticket. I'm not entirely sure on that one though (more experienced souls would know).

I definitely see the frustration - even for short sectors like this.

The real issue is the chopping and changing CBR gets, and then often issues with cancels on the day.. it's pretty volatile imo

 

[Flying mermaid]

yes flights out of/into Canberra are a total lottery - I pretty much don’t expect to fly what I have booked. Pretty normal when you book a long way ahead, but one that really annoyed me a couple of years ago was when I booked a flight back from Sydney on a Wednesday and they cancelled it the next day

I wasn’t too worried about this one - short flight and I had assumed it was going to be in economy, but when I saw they had changed it, I had to give it a try On the plus side Mr FM hates the Dash8s, so at least this way he gets a jet.

 

[opusman]

I don't understand, if you've booked F/J where does Flex Y come from?

 

[Flying mermaid]

I don't understand, if you've booked F/J where does Flex Y come from?

Because Qantas costs the domestic leg connecting to an international F or J at Flex Y. So although you book into domestic J you don’t pay domestic J prices. Thus if they downgrade you via an equipment change they don’t owe you anything. (At least that is what happens between Canberra and Sydney or Melbourne - no idea if it is true elsewhere.)

 

[RichardMEL]

But no, the fare rules usually say IF AVAILABLE book J where J is available on a connecting flight to/from a international F or J fare type. PE fares book Y domestic. eg: if you book MEL-DFW in F, you'd mostl likely go MEL-SYD (book in J)-DFW (F or A class). Because the higher class is not available it is common to book in the next highest cabin available. So, for MEL-SYD for example no F, so book J - and in a full J bucket usually (I have had this happen). However if the flight booked only as Y, all they can do is book full Y (for example, ARM-SYD-DFW)

The issue is tht FM's flights were changed such that in one instance a flight booked J became a Y only flight, so got rebooked to Y fare bucket.. and a flight that was originally Y only, booked into Y fare bucket got rescheduled to a two class aircraft, but they would not rebook to J even though, in theory, it probably should be.

 

[Flying mermaid]

But no, the fare rules usually say IF AVAILABLE book J where J is available on a connecting flight to/from a international F or J fare type. PE fares book Y domestic. eg: if you book MEL-DFW in F, you'd mostl likely go MEL-SYD (book in J)-DFW (F or A class). Because the higher class is not available it is common to book in the next highest cabin available. So, for MEL-SYD for example no F, so book J - and in a full J bucket usually (I have had this happen). However if the flight booked only as Y, all they can do is book full Y (for example, ARM-SYD-DFW)

The issue is tht FM's flights were changed such that in one instance a flight booked J became a Y only flight, so got rebooked to Y fare bucket.. and a flight that was originally Y only, booked into Y fare bucket got rescheduled to a two class aircraft, but they would not rebook to J even though, in theory, it probably should be.

Qantas has told me on multiple occasions that when I book CBR-SYD-then international, that although I book into J and have a seat in J, the fare for that leg was flex Y. Thus if there is an equipment change and I end up in Y, I am basically getting what I paid for.

 

[opusman]

Sounds like they're making it up as they go along Is it actually in the fare rules?

 

[Flying mermaid]

Sounds like they're making it up as they go along Is it actually in the fare rules?

No idea - I just believed what they told me - they wouldn’t do the wrong thing would they

 

[Pleb Status]

Qantas has told me on multiple occasions that when I book CBR-SYD-then international, that although I book into J and have a seat in J, the fare for that leg was flex Y. Thus if there is an equipment change and I end up in Y, I am basically getting what I paid for.

I have an idea for QF!

Why not make all J/F fare classes 'automatic upgrading' Y fare classes (at no reduction in cost obviously) and then they will never need to pay for a downgrade again. Sort of like the old AA KUPP fares (book Y, get F)....

 

[opusman]

I just had a look at the fare conditions for F CBR-xSYD-LAX and there's nothing at all about the domestic fare being a "Y flex". It clearly says your flight will be in business class. The fare breakdown doesn't split out the domestic part of the trip - it's an all-in fare. There's also nothing in the fare conditions that covers what would happen if an equipment change meant J wasn't available.

So maybe "internally" it's a Y flex fare but I can't see how this is disclosed at all up front. Reckon you could challenge it if you could be bothered.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I just had a look at the fare conditions for F CBR-xSYD-LAX and there's nothing at all about the domestic fare being a "Y flex". It clearly says your flight will be in business class. The fare breakdown doesn't split out the domestic part of the trip - it's an all-in fare. There's also nothing in the fare conditions that covers what would happen if an equipment change meant J wasn't available.

So maybe "internally" it's a Y flex fare but I can't see how this is disclosed at all up front. Reckon you could challenge it if you could be bothered.

interesting thanks - but no don’t have enough years left to fight these kinds of battles .

 

[odysseus]

Qantas has told me on multiple occasions that when I book CBR-SYD-then international, that although I book into J and have a seat in J, the fare for that leg was flex Y. Thus if there is an equipment change and I end up in Y, I am basically getting what I paid for.

Next time it comes up, can you compare with same itinerary but booking on J flight out of Canberra?

That should tell you (and give you proof) whether you are actually getting a different fare, or it's just a systems issue.

 

[odysseus]

Next time it comes up, can you compare with same itinerary but booking on J flight out of Canberra?

That should tell you (and give you proof) whether you are actually getting a different fare, or it's just a systems issue.

Then you can just show them the screenshot that the price of the J fare was the same as the one you booked.

 

[RichardMEL]

Qantas has told me on multiple occasions that when I book CBR-SYD-then international, that although I book into J and have a seat in J, the fare for that leg was flex Y. Thus if there is an equipment change and I end up in Y, I am basically getting what I paid for.

I grant you this may be specific to CBR (given the heavy bias to DH8 equipment and 737/717s that come and go) - it's not a market I am overly familiar with. My comments were related to fare rules I've absolutely seen and read for other markets, specifically out of MEL.

 

[RichardMEL]

So for S&G I've looked up QF F CBR-LAX fare types and selected the lowest currently available (fare type ALE0C )

in it, all I ca find is:

PASSENGERS PURCHASING PREMIUM CABIN FARES WILL BE
ACCOMMODATED IN A LOWER CABIN WITHOUT COMPENSATION
ON FLIGHTS WHERE THE HIGHER CABIN IS NOT AVAILABLE.

(which explains why they won't budge for FM)

The routing rules I can see don't soecify specifically (that seems a tautology !) the booking classes to use, but in my experience it's the highest fare class available in the next highest cabin available *when booking is made* be it J or Y.

In all of the fare rules for a few F fares I looked at there's zero relating to CBR specifically.

 

[Flying mermaid]

To a certain extent this problem will disappear in future as my preferred carrier out of Canberra is now Qatar

 

[RichardMEL]

Y'know I just realised... what I quoted says "IN *A* LOWER CABIN..." not "THE NEXT LOWEST"
so that wording could absolutely be taken to mean they could put you into Y, even on a two class service. In practice I believe that would not happen, but I just realised how that reads....

I am certain in the past fare rules like this have explicitly said "the next lowest cabin available" or similar. That wording is a little more nebulous to me, and I suppose covers, in some way, for the "Flex Y" stuff, but I still find zero evidence to support the reported claims by QF staff. However I am just lookin at ExpertFlyer fare rules, and not able to see more details via Amadeus or other GDS directly.

 

[Flying mermaid]

In the interests of this thread I did some dummy bookings of cb-Syd-nan in J, picking a flight from Canberra that has J available.

So cbr-Syd-nan was $1,282 - sale. Syd-nan $1043 (sale). $239. The difference

Cbr-Syd same flight is $408 for flex and $725 for J.


Cbr-Syd-nan was $1,582 (saver). Syd-Nan was $1,343 (saver). $239 difference again

So for that sample anyway what Qantas has told me is true - the domestic leg connecting to an international flight is at very friendly prices, so no compensation when downgraded. Seems fair.

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes, but is that selecting single cabin or two cabin flights on the domestic tags?