New QF 5/6 Schedule post Frankfurt

[Platinum A332]

For those of you interested, below is the new QF schedule Sydney-Singapore after Frankfurt flights are cancelled after 26 October;

QF 5 Sydney 1510 Singapore 2000
QF 6 Singapore 2200 Sydney 0840+1

I am sure the schedule is subject to change, and here is hoping a refurbed 747 is put on the Sydney-Singapore route. A nearly 10-year old Skybed is not competitive with the SQ A380 or BA 77W product on the route. Still beats Scoot Business Class though.....

 

[markis10]

Your dreaming if you thing a refurb aircraft will go on the route, BNE LAX takes three, SYD DFW takes three, and that leaves three for SCL and JNB....

 

[madrooster]

BNE LAX takes three, SYD DFW takes three, and that leaves three for SCL and JNB....

BNE-LAX and SYD-DFW only require 2 each. SCL requires 1, since it's not a daily service. JNB requires 2.

MEL-SIN is slated to be a 747 so it may be a mixed bag until QF figure out what they're really doing with the 747's.

 

[medhead]

BNE-LAX and SYD-DFW only require 2 each. SCL requires 1, since it's not a daily service. JNB requires 2.

MEL-SIN is slated to be a 747 so it may be a mixed bag until QF figure out what they're really doing with the 747's.

Pretty sure that the previous numbers included allowance for maintenance requirements.

 

[madrooster]

Pretty sure that the previous numbers included allowance for maintenance requirements.

Recently I haven't seen QF take more than 1 747 out of action for maintenance at a time, so I don't see why there'd be a need for extra buffer as per markis10's numbers?

 

[markis10]

BNE-LAX and SYD-DFW only require 2 each. SCL requires 1, since it's not a daily service. JNB requires 2.

MEL-SIN is slated to be a 747 so it may be a mixed bag until QF figure out what they're really doing with the 747's.

How can an aircraft get back to where it started from ready to operate the next days service if the flight is longer than 12 hours and its a daily service, which is what is required to only have two aircraft on the route, and you also need to factor in the BNE LAX service supplies an aircraft for the New York Leg of QF107/108. You will find in any given week due to maintinence etc there is at least three aircraft operating an pair of flight numbers to LAX or DFW:

20/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEJ B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
21/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
22/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEJ B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
23/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
25/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
26/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEH B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
27/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y

If you have a look at any 744 in the fleet using jet tracker on Qanats source you will often see in a given month they have 4-7 days in Sydney, which is why all up three aircraft are required.

 

[madrooster]

How can an aircraft get back to where it started from ready to operate the next days service if the flight is longer than 12 hours and its a daily service, which is what is required to only have two aircraft on the route, and you also need to factor in the BNE LAX service supplies an aircraft for the New York Leg of QF107/108. You will find in any given week due to maintinence etc there is at least three aircraft operating an pair of flight numbers to LAX or DFW:

20/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEJ B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
21/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
22/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEJ B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
23/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
25/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
26/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEH B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
27/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y

If you have a look at any 744 in the fleet using jet tracker on Qanats source you will often see in a given month they have 4-7 days in Sydney, which is why all up three aircraft are required.

To make this easier to understand, I will use times in SYD time for everything below. Lets use 2 aircraft, VH-OEJ and VH-OEG. Hypothetical situation (sorted per round trip to make it easier to read):

QF7 VH-OEJ Dep SYD 21/12/2012 3:40pm Arr DFW 22/12/2012 6:45am
QF8 VH-OEJ Dep DFW 22/12/2012 3:00pm Arr BNE 23/12/2012 7:15am
QF8 VH-OEJ Dep BNE 23/12/2012 8:45am Arr SYD 23/12/2012 10:15am -> becomes the QF7 on 23/12/2012

QF7 VH-OEG Dep SYD 22/12/2012 3:40pm Arr DFW 23/12/2012 6:45am
QF8 VH-OEG Dep DFW 23/12/2012 3:00pm Arr BNE 24/12/2012 7:15am
QF8 VH-OEG Dep BNE 24/12/2012 8:45am Arr SYD 24/12/2012 10:15am -> becomes the QF7 on 24/12/2012

QF7 VH-OEJ Dep SYD 23/12/2012 3:40pm Arr DFW 24/12/2012 6:45am
QF8 VH-OEJ Dep DFW 24/12/2012 3:00pm Arr BNE 25/12/2012 7:15am
QF8 VH-OEJ Dep BNE 25/12/2012 8:45am Arr SYD 25/12/2012 10:15am -> becomes the QF7 on 25/12/2012

QF7 VH-OEG Dep SYD 24/12/2012 3:40pm Arr DFW 25/12/2012 6:45am
QF8 VH-OEG Dep DFW 25/12/2012 3:00pm Arr BNE 26/12/2012 7:15am
QF8 VH-OEG Dep BNE 26/12/2012 8:45am Arr SYD 26/12/2012 10:15am -> becomes the QF7 on 26/12/2012

... etc. etc. This allows a whole 5 hours in SYD slack time.

BNE-LAX is practically the same, as is SYD-x/LAX-JFK (both 744's, sometimes 744ER). LAX-JFK return has no bearing whatsoever on total round trip time, as otherwise the aircraft would simply sit in LAX all day.

The services that do require 3 (sort of) are runs like SYD-x/SIN-LHR and MEL-x/SIN-LHR but QF get away with this by alternating the A380s between LHR and LAX at SYD and MEL (more so at MEL than SYD), eg. inbound from LAX becomes outbound to LHR and vice versa. For the sake of round numbers this means the 2 LHR routes require 3 A380s, and SYD/MEL-LAX require 2, giving a total of 10.

At the moment the SYD-HKG run (1 aircraft) is done 3-4 times weekly, but this could potentially go to a daily service once all the refurbs are done as the 12th aircraft can then act as the spare.

 

[markis10]

Madrooster, your looking at it from a perfect world point of view where nothing breaks and there are no scheduled down times, the aircraft themselves require a A check every 600 hours, C check every 18 months and D check every 6 years, then you have the engines as well on their own cycles not related to the body that they are attached to, which is why you don't see two aircraft operating the turnaround for more than two or three days. At the end of the day you cannot run BNE LAX and SYD DFW with four of the 9 aircraft, they need 6, this is clear by looking at the cycles each ER has run month to date.

OEB 7 days Maint/ no flights.
OEE 1 day
OEF 4 days
OEG 0 days
OEH 3 days
OEI 8 days

So in the last four weeks the fleet of six aircraft have had 23 days downtime, or just 5 days where not one was offline, and that's within a year of all them having undergone a C or D check.

 

[ecg]

Just couldn't resist wading into this one!

If all 9 aircraft are currently rotated through LAX, DFW, SCL and JNB, where do the aircraft that operate 51/52 BNE SIN and 107/108 SYD LAX come from.
The 51/52 rotation has been operated by a refurb a lot more than 50% of the time this month, while the 107/108 rotation has been oprated by a refurb more than 50% of the time (I didn't bother counting the actual days - feel free to if you wish!)

How can an aircraft get back to where it started from ready to operate the next days service if the flight is longer than 12 hours and its a daily service, which is what is required to only have two aircraft on the route, and you also need to factor in the BNE LAX service supplies an aircraft for the New York Leg of QF107/108. You will find in any given week due to maintinence etc there is at least three aircraft operating an pair of flight numbers to LAX or DFW:

20/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEJ B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
21/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
22/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEJ B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
23/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
25/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
26/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEH B747-400 58J/36W/270Y
27/12/2012 QF7 Sydney Dallas-Fort Worth VH-OEG B747-400 58J/36W/270Y

If you have a look at any 744 in the fleet using jet tracker on Qanats source you will often see in a given month they have 4-7 days in Sydney, which is why all up three aircraft are required.

Just because three aircraft operate any given rotation doesn't mean three aircraft are required. They could operate a different aircraft every single day on a given rotation, this does not mean that seven aircraft are required.

If you go through the week of SYD -DFW flights you have just quoted I'm sure that those aircraft operated more than just SYD - DFW during that week.

 

[markis10]

Just couldn't resist wading into this one!

If all 9 aircraft are currently rotated through LAX, DFW, SCL and JNB, where do the aircraft that operate 51/52 BNE SIN and 107/108 SYD LAX come from.
The 51/52 rotation has been operated by a refurb a lot more than 50% of the time this month, while the 107/108 rotation has been oprated by a refurb more than 50% of the time (I didn't bother counting the actual days - feel free to if you wish!)





Just because three aircraft operate any given rotation doesn't mean three aircraft are required. They could operate a different aircraft every single day on a given rotation, this does not mean that seven aircraft are required.

If you go through the week of SYD -DFW flights you have just quoted I'm sure that those aircraft operated more than just SYD - DFW during that week.

Fair enough questions but you seem to have missed the point, if you look at the ER fleet as I posted (which is 1/3 of the current fleet ) there are only really 5 of any 6 flying on most days this month, so that gives you an idea of mait requirements etc immediately after they have had a major check, which means its optimal conditions. This thread is discussing what happens in 9 months time when the 744 fleet is much smaller at 14 versus 19 and the first of the refurbs requires a C check, and keeping in mind DFW takes effectively three aircraft that must be ERs, that leaves three for the marginal routes JNB/ SCL and three non ERs to do as required. QF51/52 has refurbs because they rotate them with the LAX flights at BNE on Mondays allowing a ferry for maintenance, I would expect this will stop as QF51 goes to A330 for NW13.


How Qantas work their diminishing 744 fleet over the next 12 months will be interesting, I doubt there will be any 744s into Asia once FRA is killed.

 

[madrooster]

Fair enough questions but you seem to have missed the point, if you look at the ER fleet as I posted (which is 1/3 of the current fleet ) there are only really 5 of any 6 flying on most days this month, so that gives you an idea of mait requirements etc immediately after they have had a major check, which means its optimal conditions.

How Qantas work their diminishing 744 fleet over the next 12 months will be interesting, I doubt there will be any 744s into Asia once FRA is killed.

I often see these 744ERs sitting over near the pond in SYD rather than in the hangar (seen an A380 do the same too), so without knowing what QF's maintenance schedules are like, we're really looking at a black box. Although in terms of the overall fleet I am allowing for an entire spare aircraft that would essentially be on the ground permanently, if it was to be the perfect view, such as in my numbers with the A380s where I allowed for the 12th A380 to simply sit around and no absolutely nothing. That last aircraft in terms of the A380 fleet could be used for rotation purposes where A, B, C and D checks are required. I'm allowing similar in the overall fleet refurbed 744's/744ER's as well - total of 9 to play with, 2 for DFW, 1 for SCL, 2 for JNB, 1 spare

I once pondered about what routes would remain as 744's once the 744 retirements are complete. We've seen SYD-BKK swapped to an A330, SYD-NRT has been an A330 before (and could well swap back), SYD-HKG could become an A380 daily (the fleet probably allows for it once the refurbs are complete) and one SYD-SIN service is an A330. That leaves the other SYD-SIN and MEL-SIN... these could be operated by a single A330 each once QF gets those back from JQ.

 

[zachary.august]

Are any of the 744s / 744ERs left with F or have all of the refurbishments been completed?

 

[markis10]

Are any of the 744s / 744ERs left with F or have all of the refurbishments been completed?

All the ERs are done but there are still a few 744s with F that won't get converted.

 

[mannej]

The only problem with the JQ 330's is the Skybed issue. May limit what they can do with QFi.

 

[SteveJohnson]

For those of you interested, below is the new QF schedule Sydney-Singapore after Frankfurt flights are cancelled after 26 October;
QF 5 Sydney 1510 Singapore 2000
QF 6 Singapore 2200 Sydney 0840+1

And your source for this is....?

Never stops amazing me how some people can just drop in with what they claim as a statement of fact with nothing to verify it and people here start to debate it, when the first thing anybody should do is ask for the origin of the claim in order to determine its veracity. Ditto for people who constantly tip 'rumours', nod-nod wink-wink.

 

[Platinum A332]

And your source for this is....?

Never stops amazing me how some people can just drop in with what they claim as a statement of fact with nothing to verify it and people here start to debate it, when the first thing anybody should do is ask for the origin of the claim in order to determine its veracity. Ditto for people who constantly tip 'rumours', nod-nod wink-wink.

It "never stops amazing me how some people can just" accuse me of starting rumors when they can just go to Qantas.com and see I have better things to do than make up a fake flight schedule......

 

[ozmille]

And your source for this is....?

Never stops amazing me how some people can just drop in with what they claim as a statement of fact with nothing to verify it and people here start to debate it, when the first thing anybody should do is ask for the origin of the claim in order to determine its veracity. Ditto for people who constantly tip 'rumours', nod-nod wink-wink.

Just a look at the QF website will show the new times...

 

[SteveJohnson]

It "never stops amazing me how some people can just" accuse me of starting rumors when they can just go to Qantas.com and see I have better things to do than make up a fake flight schedule......

Hold on, no need to get prickly with me, all I asked for was the source of your information. I didn't accuse you of starting rumours. All you had to do was identify that Qantas.com was your source. Pretty easy to do, eh?

Just a look at the QF website will show the new times...

Now that we know the QF website is the source, yes indeed.