Network Aviation (Qantas subsidiary) pilots strike

I fail to see why they shouldn’t be paid on par with Jetstar pilots. I get the feeling that because they are a subsidiary, they get bottom wages and conditions.

Overtime conditions etc should really be the same. From what I read, many of these clauses which should be comparable with other offshoots, are instead way way less.
 
Striking again this Thursday. I thought VH was going to improve employee relations....

I fail to see why they shouldn’t be paid on par with Jetstar pilots. I get the feeling that because they are a subsidiary, they get bottom wages and conditions.

Overtime conditions etc should really be the same.
The entire aim of these offshoots is to divide and conquer. Any form of improved relations would be sexual. The staff are there to be …..

I’m in the domestic terminal at Melbourne right now. What a depressing place. And where I used to see multiple wide-bodies there’s nothing but Qlink 717s.
 
The entire aim of these offshoots is to divide and conquer. Any form of improved relations would be sexual. The staff are there to be …..

I’m in the domestic terminal at Melbourne right now. What a depressing place. And where I used to see multiple wide-bodies there’s nothing but Qlink 717s.
Would I be right in saying the plan behind closed doors is to gradually reduce mainline flying over the coming decades and replace with subsidiaries?

As far as I can see, it’s not a like for like A321 replacing the 737. A220 seems like it will play a part. A QF Pilot was telling me a while back, unbeknown to many, but your subsidiary flight could have crew on three or four agreements, all on different rates of pay, working for different companies.

Reminds me of the cruise ship model. Use a mix of contractors and nationalities, the culture of nobody trusting each other is born, so they won’t unite and unionise.

QF seems to drive a culture of divide and rule.
 
Would I be right in saying the plan behind closed doors is to gradually reduce mainline flying over the coming decades and replace with subsidiaries?

As far as I can see, it’s not a like for like A321 replacing the 737. A220 seems like it will play a part. A QF Pilot was telling me a while back, unbeknown to many, but your subsidiary flight could have crew on three or four agreements, all on different rates of pay, working for different companies.


That’s the theory many (most) have. In many ways the process commenced long ago. They are having issues crewing the A220 because a large number of the 717 crew have or will be going elsewhere (out of the group with many pursuing oppourtunites overseas) and many leave with a bitter taste in their mouth and would unlikely return in the future even if the deal of the century was offered.

I asked someone who roams at the higher levels about integrating the award (it was done in the 90’s with Australian Airlines) and his response was something along the lines of sounds like a good idea but can’t or won’t happen for a variety of reasons.

The same fellow acknowledged the serious issues they are facing both currently and certainly in the coming years. The seniority list is very top heavy in the next 5-7 years with retirements and they have no idea how to re-balance the numbers let alone increase them.
 
Would I be right in saying the plan behind closed doors is to gradually reduce mainline flying over the coming decades and replace with subsidiaries?
That's exactly the aim. It's a classic race to the bottom, 'cos anyone who can move to a better job overseas will jump as soon a the opportunity arises.
That’s the theory many (most) have. In many ways the process commenced long ago. They are having issues crewing the A220 because a large number of the 717 crew have or will be going elsewhere (out of the group with many pursuing oppourtunites overseas) and many leave with a bitter taste in their mouth and would unlikely return in the future even if the deal of the century was offered.
The 'group' is in name only. There is no opportunity beyond your own component. For instance a Dash 8 pilot who wants to go the the 717 has to resign, and hopefully be rehired by the next entity. But, if they're going to resign anyway, why not search out greener pastures. The only two parts people actually want to get to are Jetstar and mainline, and the company is working hard to make them less attractive too.
I asked someone who roams at the higher levels about integrating the award (it was done in the 90’s with Australian Airlines) and his response was something along the lines of sounds like a good idea but can’t or won’t happen for a variety of reasons.
It was, and it wasn't.

All of the TAA pilots had seniority dates of 1989. Whilst some had been in the airline prior to that, the vast majority were new hires at that point. Qantas had no involvement in the '89 dispute, and so the QF seniority list was unbroken back to Noah.

A purely datal merge of the lists would have put the TAA people into the bottom 25%, so most wouldn't have been senior enough to get to their current positions. Basically they were senior enough to be SOs.

Their idea was that they should be able to push in from the top, taking every third position....starting at #3. The effect of that would have been that most of the QF people would have lost their slots (for instance I'd have been pushed out of my 767 command, which would have gone to someone who wasn't even in the company a few years ago).

Neither idea was even slightly tenable.

So, the eventual solution was that the two parts would be isolated from each other, with QF people coming in below the TAA for the domestic ops, and the reverse for international. There was then a formula for how the slots were to be allocated for new aircraft. For anyone joining after the merge, they were below everyone anyway. Basically each part kept what they had, and neither were advantaged to the detriment of the other. As time went by, those above the merge date left/retired. I don't think that there would be all that many left now, who predated the merge.

Jetstar does have some 'ghost' seniority numbers within mainline, but they too are largely washing out. Given that they have enjoyed vastly superior promotion over mainline, with command coming up in a small fraction of the time that mainline FOs had to wait, any attempt to bring them in at anything other than datal would result in a war.

You can see how this goes on. Each and every entity produces new permutations and problems.
The same fellow acknowledged the serious issues they are facing both currently and certainly in the coming years. The seniority list is very top heavy in the next 5-7 years with retirements and they have no idea how to re-balance the numbers let alone increase them.
How can it be top heavy, given that they lost a huge part of the pilot group in both 2014 and 2020?
 
How can it be top heavy, given that they lost a huge part of the pilot group in both 2014 and 2020?

900 retirements forecast within less than a decade. Apparently they aren’t ok with this even though they know it’s happening.
 
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I found it quite shocking that these Qantas freight A330s have moved from mainline to the freight subsidiary, however crews earn 50% less. Does not sit well with me, having employees who all work under the same group, fly the same thing, same standards, yet earn so much less. Even more so when the tail is a red roo. It’s not like it a a Jetstar tail. Disgraceful.

But they will say ‘ohhhhh no it’s operated by our subsidiary so they earn less’

So it’s Qantas but not Qantas.
 
Three days this week Wed-Fri

Hope they come to a resolution soon. I mean, this is a pretty strong message to the company that they won’t be waiting for a FWC ruling which might not be until 2025.
 
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A little bit of feedback on this. Apparently the company "negotiators" listed a bunch of items that were not going to be discussed under any circumstances. Somewhat predictably they included EVERYTHING that the union wanted to discuss. The only thing they would talk about were the company's wants. Their obvious aim was for this to be sent to the Fair Work people, but as they'd done badly there in the past, there's always hope that it will backfire again. If they succeed, then they'll use exactly the same tactic for every other group.
 
I do find it increasingly delusional of these operators given the current climate to be just as adversarial as they have been in the past. I suppose it’s all they know.

Having heard from some friends who had applied to lower tier RPT operators in this country who hear nothing for a year or more and then receive a phone call out of the blue with HR wanting to setup an interview. Meanwhile they have already commenced at a major airline. The response from the HR person is often one of shock and disbelief when they are told they already have a better job. The penny does not seem to have dropped yet.
 
In the age of corporate greed, the adversarial lever is the only one that airline managers know. They’re are reaping what they’ve sewn for a long time, and it’s a pleasure to see the pilots standing up to QF management and giving them the middle finger.
 
This won’t make to to FWC, unless they expedite and have a resolution within the current calendar month. Unlikely it would they would confirm a decision until H2.

Unions and Crew not waiting for the FWC, and good on them. Really putting the pressure on QF to come to a deal. Essentially the operation is now grounded until they can come to a resolution.
 
And even better, it has the chance to snowball, as various other entities reach their EBA dates. Alan has left a huge mess behind, and VH hasn't got any clue of how to fix things, not with the staff, or the passengers. The staff have been beaten over the head for decades now; even since Dixon discovered sticks. I think they're due for some huge push back.
 
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