NC headphones restrictions

[boomy]

The CSM on my domestic flight this morning said NC headphones use is no longer allowed during takeoff and landing for safety reasons to make sure all pax can hear PA announcements.

The new safety requirements are clearly not polished as I felt asleep with my headphones on yet no one woke me up to remove them before landing.

 

[yohy?!]

do NC headphones even usually block these out?

the Sony earbud ones I use are good at blocking out background roar but if someone talks to me or the PA comes on I can still hear it

 

[jono88888]

Well I'll have to use my el cheapo ones for takeoff and then revert to NC afterwards. Whilst I agree with the sentiment behind this rule the reality is I don't think it's going to make me hear any more than I currently do. What I hear is more about what I focus on rather than what type of headphones I have on.

 

[eastwest101]

do NC headphones even usually block these out?

The NC headphones I have reduce the cabin PA's volume from an ear-splitting roar to something much more comfortable in both QF and VA B737's which I see the most of, I hope some numpty doesn't try to bring in this rule for stuff like Saab 340s or Metros!

 

[boomy]

If my NCs are on and I'm dozing off there's no chance I'll hear any PA announcements so I guess the new regulations, even if a bit uncomfortable, make sense.

 

[Sdtravel]

I have to turn NC off on my qc20's when the PA is being used as itsnso loud otherwise. It blasts me everytime. Now i either don't turn NC on until after the safety briefing or don't plug them in till after it

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think this is a move in the right direction!

I have long argued gate-to-gate IFE could be distracting during an emergency.

While a PA announcement will cut in over any program being watched, there may be situations where cabin crew shout commands without the use of the PA - in which case passengers may not be prepared to respond in a timely manner.

I would prefer all headphones banned until shortly after wheels up.

 

[dodgeyhack]

A little off topic. But you can fix the loud announcements by getting an in line volume control.
I have one of these - Shure inline volume.
Then, turn the volume control on the seat up (to say 75%) and bring the volume down to a reasonable level with the in line volume control.
This will have the effect of evening out the volume of the IFE and the announcements.
With my in ear monitors they're essential because the impedance is so low the line noise is terrible without them.

To come back on topic. I can't hear a thing with mine in (though they're not noise cancelling, just really really isolating) so I can see where they're coming from with this rule.
Though targeting noise cancelling headphones is missing the mark. What they mean is isolating headphones - which some noise cancelling headphones are.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I thought the idea of NC was to make audio clearer? It works when for me plugged into the IFE, but I can understand the concerns about people using NC with their own devices.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I thought the idea of NC was to make audio clearer? It works when for me plugged into the IFE, but I can understand the concerns about people using NC with their own devices.

Even connected to aircraft IFE wouldn't it be a problem as you couldn't hear crew announcements? You'd be distracted watching or listening to your program.

 

[Cynicor]

I have to turn NC off on my qc20's when the PA is being used as itsnso loud otherwise. It blasts me everytime. Now i either don't turn NC on until after the safety briefing or don't plug them in till after it

There's a switch on them that fixes these. Can't remember what it's called.

 

[eastwest101]

Yes a few different things to consider with the difference between noise cancelling headphones that reduce ambient noise but can still hear voices and noises vs the total isolation head sets, also whether the headphones have a source that is within the aircrafts PA system or independent from it - such as mobile phones or small tablets.

I still argue that if the plane hits something any faster than 10km/hr, goes upside down, burst into flames, or has a hole in it, or fills full of water, or is full of smoke will all give me a pretty good clue that something is amiss, and focus the attention of the passengers. The pilots won't be giving a running commentary and the cabin crew will just be announcing brace positions at that stage. I think we're adult enough to make the judgement that we should be thinking about emergency exits rather than finishing off the last 5mins of whatever we are watching/listening to, after all - we humans mostly fortunately have 5 senses to rely on and can't exclude the other non-auditory senses from a serious incident. But having said that I do pay attention to the pre-flight briefing because 1. the one in a million chance it may be useful and 2. Its just good manners.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes a few different things to consider with the difference between noise cancelling headphones that reduce ambient noise but can still hear voices and noises vs the total isolation head sets, also whether the headphones have a source that is within the aircrafts PA system or independent from it - such as mobile phones or small tablets.

I still argue that if the plane hits something any faster than 10km/hr, goes upside down, burst into flames, or has a hole in it, or fills full of water, or is full of smoke will all give me a pretty good clue that something is amiss, and focus the attention of the passengers. The pilots won't be giving a running commentary and the cabin crew will just be announcing brace positions at that stage. I think we're adult enough to make the judgement that we should be thinking about emergency exits rather than finishing off the last 5mins of whatever we are watching/listening to, after all - we humans mostly fortunately have 5 senses to rely on and can't exclude the other non-auditory senses from a serious incident. But having said that I do pay attention to the pre-flight briefing because 1. the one in a million chance it may be useful and 2. Its just good manners.

Cabin crew are perhaps well placed to notice variations during approach which might be out of the ordinary, and if they decide to issue a self-initiated 'brace' command, the second or two could be a factor in saving your life (or reducing serious injury).

Passengers tuned to IFE may not be as well placed.

This Airbus briefing for cabin crew notes that many evacuations are unplanned and occur during the taxi, take-off or landing stages of flight. Cabin crew may notice noises or an unusual attitude which passengers don't.

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/med...ms/AirbusSafetyLib_-FLT_OPS-CAB_OPS-SEQ12.pdf

You may think passengers are in a good position to determine what is safe, and what to do. But we know that's simply not the case. Many recent evacuations have shown passengers carrying hand luggage.

 

[marki]

do NC headphones even usually block these out?

the Sony earbud ones I use are good at blocking out background roar but if someone talks to me or the PA comes on I can still hear it

First some background history.

That's because the ANR ( Active Noise Reduction) is good at blocking low frequencies below 300 Hz. It's consequently also the frequency where the the fast jet helmut structure is poorest at blocking sound frequencies. These also happen to be the frequencies (250 Hz) where noise levels are the highest in fast jets. These high noise levels considerably increase the risk of hearing damage.

Only little attenuation is provided at low frequencies but since the amount of information in speech is small at frequencies below 300Hz, small gains in speech intelligibility can be made by lowering noise levels at these lower frequencies.

So that's why you generally find speech is unaffected and even slightly better because of the very effective noise cancelling at lower frequencies.

There are headsets ( next generation) that provide excellent cancelling and at dramatic levels =>like when shooting a rifle or fire arm ( at a designated firing range ) will completely cancel destroy the sound wave.

In simple terms the ANR is achieved by continuously sampling the noise in the earshell with a small microphone. The signal is then inverted in phase and then re-introduced into the shell by a telephone transducer, reducing the noise level in the earshell by destructive interference of the acoustic field.

 

[marki]

Ah I generally don't like noise cancelling earphones unless I am crew or a pilot flying. ( private licence) I feel the pressure wave of the ANR.
I much prefer noise isolating headphone for use while on board as a passenger. One advantage you don't carry around bulkier batteries or in line boxes with the electronics situated in them. So lighter tick, no fear of batteries running out mid flight tick, no pressure wave tick, sound is more natural with effective isolating cans. ( not a fan of in ear any more)
My two bob

 

[eastwest101]

You may think passengers are in a good position to determine what is safe, and what to do. But we know that's simply not the case. Many recent evacuations have shown passengers carrying hand luggage.

Not saying that pax always know best and not trying to be argumentative, and agree with most of those points, especially that quoted above I just think that NC headphones are low order safety consideration compared to passengers taking hand luggage with them in evacuation for instance, which is far more dangerous. One of these is perceived to be easier to enforce than the other, so guess which one will be enforced? Probably only was to enforce the cabin baggage issue in evacs is to engineer self locking overhead bins locked for take-off and landing which could be worth considering.

Anyway back to headphones - maybe DL have the right idea with a ban below 10,000ft? But seatbelt light on/off may be a more convenient point to ask for NC headphones off. I could consider that people in emergency exit rows maybe shouldn't have NC headphones as a reasonable/sensibly policy though.

Lets take 2 recent examples of say the A320 into the Hudson River and say the Asiana B777 at SFO for instance, where speed of evacuation is considered paramount - I would argue that NC headphones or not - I would have noticed those events happening if I did happen to be on those flights.

The funny thing is that you can get off the plane, put your NC headphones on and walk out right in front of a bus/taxi outside the airport. I bet that statistically happens more than someone unable to hear an evacuation command in an airliner crash. Naturally the response is that we don't ban taxi's and busses from airports, so there has to be a reasonable logical limit to any rules that we try to implement.

I take it we haven't seen anything official from QF or any other Australian airline yet? So its just a case of the OP observing one CSM on a QF flight at the moment.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Lets take 2 recent examples of say the A320 into the Hudson River and say the Asiana B777 at SFO for instance, where speed of evacuation is considered paramount - I would argue that NC headphones or not - I would have noticed those events happening if I did happen to be on those flights.

It's not so much the evacuation. It's the potential to hear a 'brace' command, issued by a member of cabin crew, without using the PA.

In the second before impact, hearing a 'brace' command could make the difference between a passenger sustaining serious injury, or being in a position to try and minimise harm. Cabin crew may not have time to reach for a phone to get on the PA.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Sounds to me the crew are trying to play god.

What if the headphones are plugged into the aircraft system?
What if noise cancelling isn't turned on?
Are non NC headphones ok?
What about gate to gate IFE?
What if your hearing impaired?

I use NC headphones 24/7 while in a plane as I'm more concerned about long term damage to my hearing.
I'll gladly waive my rights to compensation and damages for the periods of takeoff/landing I wear NC headphones.

 

[bunkeight]

With reference to the original question, and assuming in was a mainline-operated flight, I would suggest the CSM was using outdated information. The only restriction regarding headsets is wireless headphones using Bluetooth technology can only be operated during cruise and headset jacks on the seat back on the reconfigured A330-300 cannot be used for takeoff and landing.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sounds to me the crew are trying to play god.

What if the headphones are plugged into the aircraft system?
What if noise cancelling isn't turned on?
Are non NC headphones ok?
What about gate to gate IFE?
What if your hearing impaired?

I use NC headphones 24/7 while in a plane as I'm more concerned about long term damage to my hearing.
I'll gladly waive my rights to compensation and damages for the periods of takeoff/landing I wear NC headphones.

With the exception of hearing impaired pax (who may receive a special safety briefing), all the issues have been answered above.