NBN Discussion

We are are also lucky because our area is one of the last inctue country to get NBN so we benefit from the years of learning and fine tuning

If we were a year earlier we we would have had FW. But after the realisation that without enforcing the FW Fair Use Policy, FW would require a lot less users per tower, we are now supposed to get FTTC even though we are less than 2km line of sight to the planned tower
 
Moved into our new home last week. Lucky enough to get FTTP. Went with Aussie Broadband on a 50 speed plan. This morning according to Telstra speedtest Download 47.3 Mbps, Upload 18.7 Mbps, Ping 12ms
 
Pretty good latency.
I was thinking exactly the opposite. For FTTP a ping of 0ms is pretty normal. At worst you'd definitely expect to be seeing a single figure number. I am on the coughpiest ADSL connection known to mankind here, 1,000m cable distance to the nearest exchange via corroded copper lines in a Telstra pit underground in front of the letterbox. The wiring inside the house is DIY (non-standard) split using one pair for the voice line and the second parallel pair through the central filter for the modem. There are 4 x computers & 4 phones/tablets all sharing the one connection over variously CAT5, PoE + WiFi and here are my speedtest results just done:

7579773444.png
 
Last edited:
Pretty good latency. How far away was the server you were pinging?
When is latency noticeable?
Server was in Sydney. I am in Port Macquarie & the POI is in Coffs Harbour
I am not much of a tech person but happy with how easy the set up was
 
Ping of 0ms is impossible unless pinging the local host. Even then it’s >0 though may be <1ms.

Nothing travel faster than speed of light so Ping is always >0. The further the pinged server the longer the ping. No such thing as instant communication (except maybe if talking about quantum entanglement). If you pinged a server on the moon the ping cannot be <2.5sec
FTTP does not necessarily improve ping
Don’t forget that NBN whatever the tech is TC-4 meaning best effort only
 
Ping of 0ms is impossible
I knew Mr Pedantic would point this out. Obviously speedtest is the quickest & easiest way of judging your connection speed and equally obviously it is self-evident that service doesn't record the ping speed in fractions or even decimal points, so taking into account that you're always going to get a rounded figure then yes, it is entirely possible and even common to get a ping time of 0ms returned.

A relative has FTTP and regularly sees pings of 0ms. In fact, it's so common, he uses the appearance of anything other than 0ms ping as his warning there might be something going wrong with his connection or his network equipment inside the house.

Webpages load instantly in the blink of an eye no matter how many embedded videos & animation junk is in them. It's so quick, he doesn't really even bother keeping ad blockers up to date anymore either, except when the ads become really obtrusive and annoying by covering what you want to see. He reckons the process of blocking the ads is actually slower than just letting them through and being displayed.
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

I had a look at Jindy friend’s Aussie Broadband Account. Very easy month to month no fuss plans that can be changed monthly. He is very happy that he has been able to progressively reduce his FTTN plan to 25/5 and 200Gb for $59. Apparently he has never had to ring ABB once!

....

Happy that NBN latency is faster than speed of eye blink at your friends place:). Eye blink about 100-200ms depending on data source.

Actually Mr Pedantic would say Speedtest is not the best way of checking connection speed as it is Ethernet Layer 7. FTTN line speed is easy via modem which gives Layer 3 but FTTP does not have that visibility.

When I used speedtest at my Jindy friends place the speed was 94/29 Ping 13. POI Queanbeyan. Modem line speed was 113 down
 
Last edited:
I signed up for Telstra 'standard +' DOT Core Business plan with "typical" 40 Mbps during business hours (home office). I eventually got them to say that I would achieve this speed 'typically' during the evening as well, so I'll be relying on that. (yes, ho ho ho, I know, but I will have one leg to stand on!). I won't go with a minnow ISP (rural Tas, few fellow customers, worry about bandwidth) and the price was comparable to iiNet, TPG etc.

FTTN service, node is about 100m up the road. I know they replaced a whole lot of the local copper after the fiber went in 2 years ago and they tested the system; it was notoriously dodgy before. I used to get 0.5 Mbps with my lofty ADSL1 service (3.5km of wire from exchange), but it went up to 5 Mbps about the same time as they did all the copper work.

I get the 4G back-up with the modem which was an attractive feature - no one has mentioned any throttling on that service though and its not mentioned on the 'critical information summary', so it better not throttle.

What does "dual stack IPv4 and IPv6 address" mean in respect of static/dynamic IP addresses?
 
@RooFlyer What’s your line speed?. Your modem will tell you your line speed (also called sync speed) when you login to the modem
I don’t know why all RSP can not display actual line speed by logging in to account.

I think the 4G backup is throttled to max 6Mbps

Aussie Broadband displays line speed in manage account
Nbn50/20 with 500Gb month to month plan is $74/m. ABB does not do lock-in contracts and no sign on connection fees.
Jindy friend asked ABB to start the NBN on 1st day of month and so bill starts 1st of month which is a neat way of doing things - no part month shenanigans that Telstra seem to like doing.

Tasmania has 2 POI - Launceston and Hobart
This is yesterday’s CVC provision profile for Aussie Broadband Launceston POI :
The demand Is less than provisioned CVC
5BBDC79E-DC67-4EBA-9C0A-F30C5E7A8F8B.jpeg
 
Last edited:
@RooFlyer What’s your line speed?. Your modem will tell you your line speed (also called sync speed) when you login to the modem
I don’t know why all RSP can not display actual line speed by logging in to account.

I think the 4G backup is throttled to max 6Mbps
<snip>

I'll get back to you on that ... like I said there is nothing been said, or written in the Critical Info Summary about throttling the 4G backup. I can call on the recording where I placed my order and they read their T&C script if they do try it (I took lots of notes each call :)).

My biz 500 Gig /mo 40 Mbps plan with Telstra will be $80/mo, but with biz tax deduction, will be a fair bit less than that out of my pocket. As i'm in a town where most places are unoccupied except at holiday time (ie shacks), I have a (slim) hope that I'll consistently get better than 40 Mbps

What are 'POI' and 'CVC' and what are their significance, please?
 
Sponsored Post

Struggling to use your Frequent Flyer Points?

Frequent Flyer Concierge takes the hard work out of finding award availability and redeeming your frequent flyer or credit card points for flights.

Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, the Frequent Flyer Concierge team at Frequent Flyer Concierge will help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

Got our letter today that NBN available but will not cut out until February 2020! We hope to sell in Oct 2019. We won’t be changing. Our experiences with internet since NBN started their install here in December 2018 make me naturally avoid. Worst comes to worst I’ll buy a Telstra wifi Dongle and cancel our internet. Will test the Dongle with Chromecast first.
 
I'll get back to you on that ... like I said there is nothing been said, or written in the Critical Info Summary about throttling the 4G backup. I can call on the recording where I placed my order and they read their T&C script if they do try it (I took lots of notes each call :)).

My biz 500 Gig /mo 40 Mbps plan with Telstra will be $80/mo, but with biz tax deduction, will be a fair bit less than that out of my pocket. As i'm in a town where most places are unoccupied except at holiday time (ie shacks), I have a (slim) hope that I'll consistently get better than 40 Mbps

What are 'POI' and 'CVC' and what are their significance, please?


4g backup speed 6 Mbps - Telstra gateway modem:
The 4g backup is not an nbn service. So has nothing to do with NBN. Telstra is just being sneaky in not telling their customers what the backup speed really is. Download is 6mbps and upload is 1Mbps. Its a backup to keep you ticking over and not meant to replace the NBN service you paid for
Telstra's Gateway Frontier Modem Gives You A 4G Backup For Your ADSL Or NBN
Screen Shot 2018-08-26 at 12.24.30 AM.png

POI:
What is a POI? How and where your provider connects to the nbn™ network | nbn - Australia's broadband access network
The NBN network is the " last mile" from the POI (Point of interconnect) to the customer. There are 121 throughout the country
41NSW, 30VIC, 22QLD, 14WA, 9SA, 2TAS, 2ACT, 1NT

The internet providers operate and own/lease the part of the internet between the POI and the World Wide Web.
NBN operates the part of the internet between the POI and the Customer
In reality the POI is like a big NBN exchange that sits in buildings hosting other major telstra exchanges (usually)

So you are FTTN. This means that its copper from your house to the (ex) Telstra pillar then FTTN Node. Then fibre from the Node goes upstream aggregating with other fibres then connecting into the NBN Transit Network which takes it all into a POI.

The Internet providers rent the NBN network to provide the last mile connection seamlessly on their netwok from WWW to your premises.

CVC:
Each RSP (retail service provider) rents from NBN a path to their customers. The path is called the CVC (connectivity virtual circuit) Its a circuit because the path goes both ways. The larger the path the greater the CVC - like lanes on a highway. Congestion occurs when the RSP doesw not rent enough lanes or paths. So traffic slows down like a traffic jam. When you buy NBN at 50Mbps its like buying a car which has a top speed of 50kmh. You cant go faster than 50kmh even if the speed limit is 100kmh (unless you buy NBN 100). The problem is when the actual top speed due to inadequate CVC provision is less than the top speed of your car (eg due to not enough lanes) - say 10kmh (or 10Mbps) even when you paid for a 50 car. When the RSP rents enough CVC, each customer's car will be able to travel at the speed it was purchased for. The "car" is called AVC (access virtual circuit).

Significance:
So your AVC is 50mbps, due to congestion your typical evening speed is 40Mbps. The RSP is supposed to buy enough CVC to make sure that the evening congestion is not severely affected.So NBN wholesales each AVC with a certain amount of CVC.
Some parts of the NBN cannot have speeds greater than 50Mbps - especially Fixed wireless and FTTN. So its then no use renting a AVC at greater than 50Mbps. Might as well go to a 25Mbps AVC.

The CVC is therefore the aggregate number of 'lanes' at the POI. In a way the POI is an artificial bottleneck put in place to extract revenue. This is where NBN gets its revenue. Want less bottleneck? - pay up!. The path between the house and POI can also be congested. This is currently seen with Fixed wireless. One fibre from a group of towers to the POI is carrying a lot more premises than an FTTN Node which is about 200 premises per fibre. FW is over 2000 per fibre. FTTN is not seeing congestion.

So when you buy NBN internet access what you are buying is the AVC rental (the car that takes you data to/from the POI at a certain top speed) and a bundled amount of CVC. If your AVC is 50Mbps you do not need to rent 50Mbps of CVC. NBN is a shared highway and not everyone is using the internet at the same time and not everyone is online all the time. You might only have 2Mbps CVC as part of your plan bundled with the AVC, but aggregating every customer at Launceston POI combining everyones bundled 800Mbps CVC means that the customers are able to get their speed they pay for when they are using the internet - around 40Mbps in the evening.

In the graphs above Aussie Broadband is renting at the Launceston around 800Mbps CVC (straight line) which is greater than the total demand (shown by the squiggly graph) so congestion is not going to be severely affected.

A big RSP like telstra does not publish their CVC graphs and may get more congestion than a small RSP like Aussie Broadband. Size is not necessarily an indicator.

Aussie broadband sells NBN50 (typical evening speed 45Mbps + 500GB/month at $74 on a month to month no lockin contract.

NBN does not wholesale gigabytes/month so why is the RSP selling gigabytes/month

NBN just rents out lanes (CVC) and cars of certain max speed (AVC). It does not care how many cars are on the road. The more cars the better because the RSP has to rent more CVC.
The RSP on the other hand does. The more cars on the road the more CVC it has to rent. The RSP then limits the number of times the car can travel on the road by introducing gigabytes/month. a 200Gb/month user will be on the road less than a 500Gb/month user. Therefore less CVC is necessary to support a 200Gb/m compared to a 500Gb/m user.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all that. :) I appreciate it, I really do, but boy, you make it complicated, although I can't tell what you've written and what's been copied from elsewhere.

CVC: Oh, it involves what's conventionally called 'bandwidth' (I guess you'll naysay that term, but I'm using it the way most non techs use it). So the blue graphs you posted were the NBN bandwith as purchased by the ISP Vs what's being used by customers. Simples. I understand all those concepts pretty well. I usually explain it in terms of pipes and flowing water, but cars and highways work too. Where I live is sparsely settled, mostly shacks. I doubt many of the ISP minnows would even offer a service.

As for the 4G backup of the Telstra service. I'm well aware its not NBN ;). 3G and 4G 'dongles' have been around for donkey's years ya know; I used to use one exclusively for my internet before I got my stellar ADSL1 service (3G service got congested when the shackies come to town). As for the throttling of the 4G supplementary service: I see your link is to a Gizmodo story from Feb 2017, so not really relevant to Telstra today, I think. This is what the Critical Information Summary for my service says:

Mobile Broadband Back-Up
Your plan includes a mobile broadband back-up. If there is an outage of the fixed broadband service, you will connect and have access to the internet via the Telstra Mobile Network.

The back-up service is only for use if there is an outage of the fixed broadband service at your premises. You must not use the back-up service as your primary Broadband service.

The mobile broadband back-up device provided can only be used with your Telstra Business Smart Modem™.

If we reasonably believe you are misusing the back-up service, we will contact you. If you continue to misuse the back-up service, we may:

  1. suspend or limit your mobile broadband back-up service; and/or
  2. cancel your mobile broadband back-up service by telling you at least 7 days beforehand.
Like I said, no mention either of any 4G back-up throttling in the calls I've had, including the official sign-on 'script'. We'll see what happens.
 
Last edited:
Hmmm... again, that's on a FAQ, not part of my contract but again, anything's possible. I got told by a Testra NBN tech guy (supposedly) that I should use the 'NBNspeedtest' site on my present ADSL1 service to 'get an idea' of what speed I might get from the future NBN connection.

Even a dullard like me could see the BS in that! I did it, of course, and got exactly my present ADSL 1 speed.:rolleyes:
 

Enhance your AFF viewing experience!!

From just $6 we'll remove all advertisements so that you can enjoy a cleaner and uninterupted viewing experience.

And you'll be supporting us so that we can continue to provide this valuable resource :)


Sample AFF with no advertisements? More..

Recent Posts

Currently Active Users

Back
Top