Narrowing of benefits between WP and 'lesser' elite levels

[serfty]

Many posts have been relocated here from another thread where they were, at the very least, off-topic. Please continue discussion on the Narrowing of benefits between WP and other statuses here.

 

[connieguy]

Re: Building a stronger Qantas

I could be wrong, but I don't recall ANY reduction in WP benefits in the latest round of enhancements. Its just that the WP's are annoyed that PS and SG's got more than they did before and WP's didnt! A bit schoolyard don't you think?

With respect, as a WP who flies a lot of -Y exit row flights, those points help me to reduce my cost of flying. They save me real A$s. Annoyed does not describe how I feel. Taken for granted is now I feel.

As explained on another forum, if you bought goods from a merchant who gave you points that you could spend in his store in recognition for say earning 3,250 SCs and another customer who earned say 600 SCs in the same store also received points for their SC earn. Then one day the merchant decided to award to the customer who earns 600 SCs, more points, while not awarding the customers who earns / spends 6 times more any additional points.

You think the customer who spends 6 times more than the other customer has no right to be upset at the action of the merchant in awarding the customer who spends 6 times less, with additional points to spend in his store and thus to reduce their effective cost of flying while not rewarding the customer who spend 6 times more with more points to spend in his store to also help to reduce their cost of flying?

What it clearly says is the merchant is taking the higher spend customer for granted and that they need no additional points for the merchant to retain their loyalty, business and high level of spend. Well VA are now rubbing their hand together with glee at all the WPs that are taking status matches for this action and others by QF.

You really do need to look at this from a WP point of view.

 

[Stephen65]

But wouldn't such an increase benefit both of you because you both get the extra points at 600SC? Your complaint is that the merchant hasn't maintained the relative advantage of earning 3250 versus 600, not that he gave the 600 spender something he didn't give you.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Building a stronger Qantas

What it clearly says is the merchant is taking the higher spend customer for granted and that they need no additional points for the merchant to retain their loyalty, business and high level of spend. Well VA are now rubbing their hand together with glee at all the WPs that are taking status matches for this action and others by QF.

...and yet VA have exactly the same level of status bonus points.

 

[connieguy]

But wouldn't such an increase benefit both of you because you both get the extra points at 600SC? Your complaint is that the merchant hasn't maintained the relative advantage of earning 3250 versus 600, not that he gave the 600 spender something he didn't give you.

That is not the point at all. I'm delighted that the 600 SC customer how gains extra points to reduce their cost of buying goods in the merchants store.

What amazes me is the merchant didn't consider that they should also grant me, who spends at 6 times as much with the merchant, a similar additional points bonus to also reward me for my much larger spend / loyalty and to help to reduce my cost of buying goods in the merchants store. I mean it is called a Frequent Flyer (Buyer) program that is designed to ensure loyalty (spending money in the merchants store) from those high value spenders.

Had QF done the right thing here, not taken away ATA, not capped the loyalty bonus, not upped the PG requirements, provided Domestic Priority Boarding via a dedicated lane to the BP scanner, not created the upgrade lottery, provided decent WiFi and coffee in the lounges and not done a few other WP "Enhancements", just maybe I would not have gone for the VA WP status match and would now be half way to WP1 (trusting in QF that it would be worth the effort).

But not now. QF have taken my loyalty / spend for granted and I like other WPs are concerned that the benefits, that in effect reduce our cost of spending money in the merchants store, will continue to be reduced. So we are voting with our feet and wallet and moving some of our spent to the new merchant's store as this merchant is addressing all the issues and even offering entirely new and exciting benefits to further reduce our cost of spending money in their and their partners stores. The new merchant really seems to understand how to reward high spending customers, what they want and expect.

 

[connieguy]

Re: Building a stronger Qantas

...and yet VA have exactly the same level of status bonus points.

It is about more than just points. The overall VA WP package is well in advance of the QF WP package. As detailed in my last post, QF have reduced WP benefits across the board yet call us their most valuable customers. :shock: :evil: In 3 years as a WP, all I have seen is reduced benefits. I see no reason to believe this process will stop or reverse.

I'm not a corp flyer. I pay for my tickets, can and will move my spend to those airlines which show me the best overall reward package for my spend with them.

 

[Danger]

Benefits come and benefits go.

When Anytime Access was introduced for Plats, was there any other corresponding benefit for PS/SGs to keep their relative benefit levels in lock step? Where was the whinging about the relative erosion of PS/SG benefits?

As Goldy has pointed out: WPs have their benefit levels. If it's not good enough for you, then fly someone else.

I'm sorry but it's not as simple as 'go fly another airline'. We're not talking about changing the brand of milk you pour on your cereal. Platinums, by and large, have invested valuable time and money in achieving their status, only to have what many see as a continual erosion of benefits. You don't change airline loyalty overnight, although DJ's status match makes it a lot easier. Many Platinums (and other tiers, to be sure) probably have a fair stock of points built up. 'Go fly another airline' and your status dwindles, meaning reduced access to award availability. And this argument doesn't even take into account those people whose company has a deal with QF or who are 'forced' to fly with them because of frequencies or routes or connections. To suggest one goes and flies another airline is, in my opinion, short-sighted and naive.

To me, a more appropriate analogy would be building a home with spectacular views. You invest the time and money and look forward to the occasions when you can sit on your balcony with a quiet drink and enjoy it. Then, some bloke goes and builds a three story mansion in front of yours, smashing your investment's worth. One doesn't 'go and build another house'; it's something that takes time. Long-term" yeah, you might look to build a new home somewhere else, but it's not something you do the next day.

The quote was taken directly from post 865 made by Simsy85 who claims to be a WP in which he stated unequivocally that SG and PS get "everything", so I fail to see where the misrepresentation lies?

You can try to promote and push your perspective on others but IMO the fact remains that I, as an SG really dont give 2 hoots what benefits WP's get, until such a time when/if I qualify for that status and I take an interest in the new benefits I receive. Until that time however, I will pay attention to the benefits I am entitled to and I implore you and your fellow WP's to do the same instead of going off on this random tangent about your eroded benefits in relative terms as it seems to me to be completely irrelevant what any other status gets as it simply does not apply to you.

The ranting and raving about how WP's fly X amount and are therefore entitled to Y benefits borders on the ridiculous. You ought to know as well as anyone that the benefits are what they are, and in the majority of cases (excluding priority boarding) are provided to you pretty much exactly as described. If you dont feel that your WP status benefits are commensurate with the volume of business you send QF's way, then send less of it and enjoy "all" the benefits of SG for half the effort. Plain and simple really!

<Redacted>

Your continued pushing the proverbial uphill about "poor WP's and the relative erosion of our benefits" seems to be the only deliberate misrepresentation. If you dont like it, lump it, and fly with another airline who's FF program better suits your needs.



Thankyou AnonymousCoward​!

I could be wrong, but I don't recall ANY reduction in WP benefits in the latest round of enhancements. Its just that the WP's are annoyed that PS and SG's got more than they did before and WP's didnt! A bit schoolyard don't you think?

IMO, the last round of positive "enhancements" for PS and SG was nothing more than a vain attempt by QF to retain those FF's who were deemed "most likely" to jump ship to Velocity. It was not a personal attack on the WP's, but obviously, they see things in a different, somewhat more distorted light.



Shirley you cant be serious??

A reduction in benefits, maybe not. But certainly a dillution.

 

[Robert K]

To me, a more appropriate analogy would be building a home with spectacular views. You invest the time and money and look forward to the occasions when you can sit on your balcony with a quiet drink and enjoy it. Then, some bloke goes and builds a three story mansion in front of yours, smashing your investment's worth. One doesn't 'go and build another house'; it's something that takes time. Long-term" yeah, you might look to build a new home somewhere else, but it's not something you do the next day.

That analogy isn't correct either. It would be more like, Qantas gives WPs 1 whole pie and SGs 1/2 a pie. they both get their own pies.

 

[Danger]

That analogy isn't correct either. It would be more like, Qantas gives WPs 1 whole pie and SGs 1/2 a pie. they both get their own pies.

The analogy of the house was to show the extent of investment and that turning your back overnight is not reality.

 

[dajop]

I'm sorry but it's not as simple as 'go fly another airline' .... To suggest one goes and flies another airline is, in my opinion, short-sighted and naive.

I don't think it is naive. I think it is naive to assume the benefits that one has "invested in" will remain forever, especially given the track record Qantas have over the last 10 years. It is exactly for these reasons that Qantas continually "enhance" its benefits to it's top-ish tier FF'ers to the point where the line between Platinum and Gold is rather blurred. As you point out, these people have invested too much in QF already to move their flights to another carrier, and of course get hooked on some nice FCLs, so QF know they don't (didn't?) have to do much to keep them happy. The new uber-tier will sort out those whose loyalty could easily be spread.

As for the investment analogy, the most common investment advice is to spread your risks - I think that applies to airline loyalty programs as well, as you never know what might be around the corner. More power to you as well, no need to feel "locked-in" to an individual carrier.

 

[Moopere]

the most common investment advice is to spread your risks - I think that applies to airline loyalty programs as well, as you never know what might be around the corner. More power to you as well, no need to feel "locked-in" to an individual carrier.

Yep, the smart advice for sure. FF value, earn/burn rates, conditions, etc, all variable at the companies whim. Spreading would seem the smart move if you are able to do it. Nothing is ever static and new plans need to include the different variables of the ever changing landscape.

I personally struggle to amass enough flying to spread my loyalty, but then, I'm not a WP. If were doing enough travel to be in the running I'd certainly have to have a long hard think about whether it was better for me to be gold across two, or more alliances or Platinum with only one.

 

[clifford]

Spreading would seem the smart move if you are able to do it. Nothing is ever static and new plans need to include the different variables of the ever changing landscape.

100% correct. That's why I'm Gold with Star, One-world and Emirates.

Airlines try and rip off their premium members all the time.

Just look at what Continental is doing to United frequent flyers (doesn't all this seem to be a bit like AirNZ taking over Ansett and then falling in a heap?). Anyone remember Sir Selwyn Cushing? Well I do.

 

[gumpy]

Re: Building a stronger Qantas

With respect, as a WP who flies a lot of -Y exit row flights, those points help me to reduce my cost of flying. They save me real A$s. Annoyed does not describe how I feel. Taken for granted is now I feel.

As explained on another forum, if you bought goods from a merchant who gave you points that you could spend in his store in recognition for say earning 3,250 SCs and another customer who earned say 600 SCs in the same store also received points for their SC earn. Then one day the merchant decided to award to the customer who earns 600 SCs, more points, while not awarding the customers who earns / spends 6 times more any additional points.

You think the customer who spends 6 times more than the other customer has no right to be upset at the action of the merchant in awarding the customer who spends 6 times less, with additional points to spend in his store and thus to reduce their effective cost of flying while not rewarding the customer who spend 6 times more with more points to spend in his store to also help to reduce their cost of flying?

What it clearly says is the merchant is taking the higher spend customer for granted and that they need no additional points for the merchant to retain their loyalty, business and high level of spend. Well VA are now rubbing their hand together with glee at all the WPs that are taking status matches for this action and others by QF.

You really do need to look at this from a WP point of view.

First of all wow Goldy got suspended... not even I managed that...

2ndly your post Gowatson, as much as it makes sense from a psychological perspective but not from an economic perspective. Economically very little has changed and therefore you feeling up set is the feeling of been left out of a round of changes not an actual downgrade in your earning capacity. If you get past the hurt from the fact that others got bumped up and you didn't then you'll realise it's not all that bad.

It's like when I paid for the Y+ ticket and another person got op-uped... I was like =/... But I got what I paid for which at the time of booking I felt was a fair price and have nothing to feel aggrieved about.

Note: VA's earning rates are the same for each status... difference is they didn't have the 25,50,100 earning rates before so no one feels unhappy... it's all psychology.

 

[medhead]

Re: Building a stronger Qantas

Except of course the discussion is doing to death, yet again things like ATA which have nothing what so ever to do with the changes this thread has been discussing AND besides there is already a thread specifically for that topic.

Yep you're absolute correct.

For the record there was one person who raised ATA and there was one person who went on and on and on about whinging, ranting and raving, ridiculous, platinum brutes in this thread. All of which I find to be deeply offensive. No matter that others do not agree with me, I remain highly offended at the tone and underlying insults in a number of posts in this thread.

It would be interesting to see the result if I made a similar series of derogatory posts?

 

[JohnK]

Interesting spin-off thread.

Surely the perception of narrowing of benefits is up to the individual and one should not be shot down for having certain beliefs or feelings.

I have been Platinum for ~5 years and in that time most benefits that I considered important have been "enhanced" yet Silver and Gold have only gained bringing the levels, unfairly, closer together.

I feel the difference between Gold and Platinum was realistic where as now it is a joke. I was actually concerned that I will not want to drop back to Lifetime Gold and try and maintain Platinum at all costs. Now I do not care as the drop is not that huge.

Personally I think Qantas has misjudged what Virgin was doing but now has an opportunity to regain trust from Platinums. And I am not referring to any announcement on Platinum One. That is going to be way out of reach for 99.9999% of frequent flyers and is not going to help in the competition with Virgin.

Well a bit pointless posting this as the person is banned from the thread, but...

And by now no longer an active member of AFF.

 

[amaroo]

What does WP mean ?

 

[serfty]

What does WP mean ?

Abbreviations and Explanations

(It was actually developed over HP's in the BNE QP at an FT DO!)

 

[amaroo]

(It was actually developed over HP's in the BNE QP at an FT DO!)

Thanks for that - knew some of them but there are very many more that I need to learn.

 

[ozmille]

Thanks for that - knew some of them but there are very many more that I need to learn.

There are a lot of abbreviations on here, I still need to look up stuff regularly as well

 

[anchew]

I actually think that the gap between SG & WP is less on DJ than QF. QF has the J & F Lounges. DJ has 4 complementary upgrades. At the moment, that's the only differential for me.