Monumental Stuff up by Qantas

[Sheenaec7]

Yes the OP stuffed up and yes, Qantas also stuffed up. Yet OP has to bear the full responsibility for the stuff up? Shared failure should mean shared responsibility. But alas this is no more the case. As you have seen all Qantas seems to hand out these days is one fingered salutes.

I can full understand why receiving a "booking confirmation" to the average traveller (i.e not frequent flyer nuts), is taken as "good to go", and most would not understand the difference between a confirmed booking and ticketed booking.

I wouldn't have focussed on the inconvenience on the ground and bad backs etc (which made your experience worse, but at the end of the day this is such a distraction and looks like you put it there just to elicit some sympathy for something that perhaps you might not deserve). Would have just concentrated on the failure of this booking to be ticketed correctly, and not being aware of this until departing - this is not the first case of an award booking to be ticketed incorrectly either, but many do pick this up before departure.

Including the events on the ground in Havana were for venting purposes only and won't be part of my argument with Qantas .

 

[Sheenaec7]

OP, out of interest, was the e-mail correspondence to QF as lengthy as the first post?

No

 

[Sheenaec7]

I totally agree with that. However, as I added in an edit to my previous post, as far as I can tell, QF doesn't send any kind of confirmation until award flights are ticketed - i.e. they do not even send an email with an itinerary or PNR until the flight is ticketed. That's based on my experience anyway. Perhaps that is not always what happens, but it would be interesting to know.




Yes, me too, but as above I'm not sure if any booking confirmation was sent. The OP didn't mention receiving any such confirmation - perhaps he just omitted to mention it, but as I said, in my experience QF doesn't send any confirmation until the flights are ticketed.

If he received no confirmation from Qantas, then I'm afraid I would find it very hard to understand why he would assume it was all booked and ticketed successfully, so I think this is a key point. Perhaps the OP could clarify.

I received a booking confirmation email which included a booking number, flight details, the amoint if points deducted and the fees charged.

 

[JohnM]

I received a booking confirmation email which included a booking number, flight details, the amoint if points deducted and the fees charged.

Just to check, as there seem to be some inconsistencies with what you describe and what experience tells me is actually sent as the definitive booking.

Was what you refer to the standard 7-page .pdf document that is headlined under the Qantas logo at top left: 'E-Ticket Itinerary and Receipt'? Those do include the $$ payments made and the (all-important?) E-ticket number, but do not include the points used.

The subject line for such emails from QF, such as mine from two days ago, read in this form: Confirmation and E-Ticket Flight Itinerary for [PNR] from Buenos Aires Ministro Pistarini to Doha on xxApr19 for [Surname].

 

[Sheenaec7]

I am wondering which form of transport the OP used to get into Cuba & how not having a "real" way of leaving did not trigger some questions

I flew in from Santiago, Chile via Panama flying Copa. Can't remember what the asked to see on entry to Havana -was 2 months ago now.

 

[Jack_OC]

I thought l had responded to this days ago but can't find it now. Yes, l received an email booking confirmation with a booking number, flight times and stating the amount of points deducted and fees charged.

Yes you did respond a few days ago (on Sunday) to clarify that you received a booking confirmation email - that post is still there. However, the posts from me that you have just quoted were from over a week ago.

Anyway, you may have missed it, but can you clarify if your confirmation email was the same as that received by JohnM this week?

I just made FF redemption booking online at QF to fly (the notoriously touchy for ensuring bookings stick) QR EZE-xDOH-PER in April next year. The advice in the booking confirmation is clear. The E-ticket lobbed in within a few minutes. Printed, checked and re-checked.

Now to select seats.

View attachment 128148

It seems there is inconsistency in exactly what kind of emails QF send and when in this situation (in my past experience they have sent nothing at all!), but did your email include similar wording to JohnM's? In particular, did it state "Note that this is not a travel document. We will e-mail an e-ticket to you within 30 minutes, which you will need to print and bring with you to the airport", or something to that effect? Or did it read as if it actually was the final confirmation/ticket?

IMHO, this is an important point if you want to pursue this - I suspect QF will attempt to rely on what exactly the email said, and I imagine the ACA would take that into account as well.

 

[JohnM]

Yes you did respond a few days ago (on Sunday) to clarify that you received a booking confirmation email - that post is still there. However, the posts from me that you have just quoted were from over a week ago.

Anyway, you may have missed it, but can you clarify if your confir

mation email was the same as that received by JohnM this week?



It seems there is inconsistency in exactly what kind of emails QF send and when in this situation (in my past experience they have sent nothing at all!), but did your email include similar wording to JohnM's? In particular, did it state "Note that this is not a travel document. We will e-mail an e-ticket to you within 30 minutes, which you will need to print and bring with you to the airport", or something to that effect? Or did it read as if it actually was the final confirmation/ticket?

IMHO, this is an important point if you want to pursue this - I suspect QF will attempt to rely on what exactly the email said, and I imagine the ACA would take that into account as well.

Just to clarify: the screen snip I posted at #164 was not a confirmation email. It was the final screen of the online booking process (and I do note that the OP made the redemption booking by phone). The confirmation email (ie. with the E-ticket) arrived a few minutes later - just as described on that final part of the booking process.

The part of the OP's recent post that I am querying is just exactly what was emailed to them: the confirmatory email includes the E-ticket (which seems to me to be the key element here, and which the OP did not mention) and the $ charges for the fees but, contrary to what the OP stated, does not include the points charged for the redemption.

I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of what really transpired in the documentation for this transaction but clarity/accuracy seems a little difficult to obtain.

 

[Jack_OC]

Just to clarify: the screen snip I posted at #164 was not a confirmation email. It was the final screen of the online booking process (and I do note that the OP made the redemption booking by phone). The confirmation email (ie. with the E-ticket) arrived a few minutes later - just as described on that final part of the booking process.

The part of the OP's recent post that I am querying is just exactly what was emailed to them: the confirmatory email includes the E-ticket (which seems to me to be the key element here, and which the OP did not mention) and the $ charges for the fees but, contrary to what the OP stated, does not include the points charged for the redemption.

I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of what really transpired in the documentation for this transaction but clarity/accuracy seems a little difficult to obtain.

Ah, I see! Thanks for clarifying - I had indeed misunderstood that. I had thought you were saying that you received a booking confirmation email, prior to the e-ticket, which is not something I had seen before.

What you have described is actually entirely consistent with my experience. I have only received emails of the nature that you described in your recent post, with a subject line of "Confirmation and E-Ticket Flight Itinerary for [PNR] from [Airport] to [Airport] on [Date] for [Surname]", and obviously the eticket is attached to those emails. On occasions when ticketing has been delayed, I have received no communication whatsoever from QF until ticketing was eventually completed.

It would be helpful if the OP could copy and paste the text of the email she received, obviously without any personal details etc.

 

[Sheenaec7]

Just to clarify: the screen snip I posted at #164 was not a confirmation email. It was the final screen of the online booking process (and I do note that the OP made the redemption booking by phone). The confirmation email (ie. with the E-ticket) arrived a few minutes later - just as described on that final part of the booking process.

The part of the OP's recent post that I am querying is just exactly what was emailed to them: the confirmatory email includes the E-ticket (which seems to me to be the key element here, and which the OP did not mention) and the $ charges for the fees but, contrary to what the OP stated, does not include the points charged for the redemption.

I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of what really transpired in the documentation for this transaction but clarity/accuracy seems a little difficult to obtain.

I am currently working on my phone alone and find it very difficult to keep up with all the responses but will be responding to all questions as soon as l get back to my computer next week.

Not sure what you are asking but there was no e-ticket component in the booking confirmation. I will have a look at the original booking confirmation email once l get home next week and see if it is a 7 page PDF. I can only remember the 2 pages that l printed off.

 

[JohnM]

Not sure what you are asking but there was no e-ticket component in the booking confirmation.

If that is the case, it sets off alarm bells to me. The covering email may say 'Booking confirmation' and give the PNR, but it is the 7-8 page E-ticket and receipt attachment to the email that is the crucial document.

 

[burmans]

Just to check, as there seem to be some inconsistencies with what you describe and what experience tells me is actually sent as the definitive booking.

Was what you refer to the standard 7-page .pdf document that is headlined under the Qantas logo at top left: 'E-Ticket Itinerary and Receipt'? Those do include the $$ payments made and the (all-important?) E-ticket number, but do not include the points used.

The subject line for such emails from QF, such as mine from two days ago, read in this form: Confirmation and E-Ticket Flight Itinerary for [PNR] from Buenos Aires Ministro Pistarini to Doha on xxApr19 for [Surname].

I think you are drawing a long bow here, sure as an experienced flyer you may well know that you need to receive the E-Ticket Itinerary and Receipt but the legal definition of reasonable is usually what an average Jo Blow would think. Most of these people would regard a email that describes itself as a booking confirmation as exactly that and shouldn't need a detailed understanding of the Qantas booking process to be able to determine if this is or isn't in fact a booking confirmation.

 

[Sheenaec7]

If that is the case, it sets off alarm bells to me. The covering email may say 'Booking confirmation' and give the PNR, but it is the 7-8 page E-ticket and receipt attachment to the email that is the crucial document.

That was only the original email. A day later they sent me an email requesting that l click on a link and update my information in order to finalise the booking. So, l clicked on the link and updated my details as requested and then assumed it was finalised.

Another wierd thing is that AwardWallet sent me a couple of notifications including a reminder that it was time to do an online check-in for the flight (which l didn't do because l don't ever bother with online check ins) Why did they send that if they had not had a points claim for that flight?

 

[Sheenaec7]

Try telling Plane Talking blog on Crikey.com.au Ben Sandilands. I'm sure Qantas reads it because I got a refund after months of complaint over atrocious service.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give them a bit more time then might give that a go as well.

 

[Sheenaec7]

It IS odd that the OP would fly with nothing at all in writing from Qantas about the flight. But did they? I think we need some further detail from the OP about what paperwork (if any) they did receive from Qantas.

I did received a booking confirmation email which included a booking number, flight details, fees charged and points deducted etc. I also received the change of flight time email from Qantas in Jan. I've mentioned this in other responses so I'll keep this short until I can respond using my desk top and stop getting RSI typing (very slowly) on my phone. Cheers

 

[Jack_OC]

I think you are drawing a long bow here, sure as an experienced flyer you may well know that you need to receive the E-Ticket Itinerary and Receipt but the legal definition of reasonable is usually what an average Jo Blow would think. Most of these people would regard a email that describes itself as a booking confirmation as exactly that and shouldn't need a detailed understanding of the Qantas booking process to be able to determine if this is or isn't in fact a booking confirmation.

It really depends on what the email said.

Of course the other issue here is whether the OP is correct that she received a booking confirmation email for this flight. The booking was made almost 9 months ago, and the OP has confirmed that she cannot currently access the correspondence from that time as she doesn't have her computer. I certainly wouldn't be confident of remembering what emails I received about a booking that long ago off the top of my head. The OP also commented early on that she didn't notice not getting an eticket at the time and said "I probably wasn't keeping an eye on everything as I was travelling at the time and had booked 3 other award flights that day (not via Qantas)". Also, as previously noted, sending confirmation emails in the absence of an e-ticket is not standard practice at QF.

That was only the original email. A day later they sent me an email requesting that l click on a link and update my information in order to finalise the booking. So, l clicked on the link and updated my details as requested and then assumed it was finalised.

Another wierd thing is that AwardWallet sent me a couple of notifications including a reminder that it was time to do an online check-in for the flight (which l didn't do because l don't ever bother with online check ins) Why did they send that if they had not had a points claim for that flight?

I have got reminders from AwardWallet numerous times about flights that I am not actually booked on. AwardWallet just picks up bookings when they are initially added to your FF account (even if they are just unticketed/provisional bookings), but it does not seem to get updated if they are cancelled (although I believe it does if they are changed). The bottom line is, you can't rely on third party apps to tell you if your booking is current, as they don't necessarily get updated if your booking is changed/cancelled.

 

[mannej]

Thanks for the tip. I'll give them a bit more time then might give that a go as well.

As mentioned in some of the following posts - Ben Sandilands has passed away, so not an option still available.

 

[Sheenaec7]

What a **** fight and it is 100% Qantas fault. Similar to Qatar, Iberia tickets need to be ticketed immediately. My guess is Qantas sat on it and it auto cancelled.

That is bullshit about the DOB and middle name. Ticket can still be ticketed.

Qantas said that DOB and middle name were required for flights within and out of the US. Cuba is part of North America but l doubt they'd appreciate being considered part of the US.

 

[Jack_OC]

Qantas said that DOB and middle name were required for flights within and out of the US. Cuba is part of North America but l doubt they'd appreciate being considered part of the US.

Iberia definitely do require DOB to book a flight from Havana to Madrid. That much of QF's story is true.

 

[Jack_OC]

Another wierd thing is that AwardWallet sent me a couple of notifications including a reminder that it was time to do an online check-in for the flight (which l didn't do because l don't ever bother with online check ins)

By the way, I meant to add - for future reference, you should bother with online check-in where possible. Doing so significantly reduces the chances of getting nasty surprises at the airport!

 

[JohnM]

I think you are drawing a long bow here, sure as an experienced flyer you may well know that you need to receive the E-Ticket Itinerary and Receipt but the legal definition of reasonable is usually what an average Jo Blow would think. Most of these people would regard a email that describes itself as a booking confirmation as exactly that and shouldn't need a detailed understanding of the Qantas booking process to be able to determine if this is or isn't in fact a booking confirmation.

I hear what you are saying. However, the email that comes from QF notifying a confirmed booking has the E-ticket and receipt attached - and very clearly draws attention to that in the body of the email as illustrated below in a screen snip from my Outlook email that shows a confirmed booking.

The other thing that the snip illustrates is the continued updating via a string of emails. In this case it is a DONE5 that I booked last year for departure in a couple of weeks. It includes flights on QF, LA, AA, QR. Since booking, there have been numerous changes (sometimes just a few minutes to one of the 16 flights). Every time, QF has sent an email notification that a change has occurred, followed shortly after with another email with the updated E-ticket attached.

So, if such an email with attachment had been received, I don't think it is necessary to invoke being an experienced flyer to understand it. But if such an email had not been received, the question then becomes 'why not?' - and then I agree that some flyer savvy may be required to set off alarm bells.

I am merely endeavouring to understand what the OP received if it did not have an E-ticket attached, particularly in view of the fact that the OP seems intent on blaming QF entirely for the failure. From my experience, once an E-ticket is issued, it is locked away and can be seen on the QF MMB as well as that of any other airlines in the itinerary, so it should not simply disappear, and is quickly updated with any changes.