Moderating

[jakeseven7]

But then, fanbois on both sides are pretty funny and I just reckon none of it should be moderated so the rest of us can enjoy the show.

IMHO it was funny for the first 5 or so posts. But then it kept on coming, thick and fast and now multiple users posting cough. A lot.

On the mods : pretty much all can do is moderate when people attack each other rather than the subject which is fine, but they certainly aren't tasked with upholding standards and quality of conversation and topics.... Could that ever be a remit? I don't know... It would need some tight guidelines from Admin I'm sure...

Yes agree - but they are volunteers as far as I understand it... and there are limits to their time. Whilst I would love some sort of quality filter put in - I just don't think the mods are capable (in terms of time) of implementing. I'm kinda hoping the handful of what you call 'spam' posters will get bored and disappear if people ignore them.

Pretty much the only solution I can think of is for individuals to start blocking said consistently spammy/inaccurate posters yourself so you don't see their posts and just hope that any newbies don't take their advice!!

I see your point but disagree in principle - we shouldn't have to block them and the intention of the forum is for interaction of views to get to a robust outcome. The balance is just out of whack at the moment with the volume of cough posts IMO.

Once I again I've been walking around with my head where the sun don't shine.

Isn't the answer to ignore (not block) and not respond*, then contribute facts when you have them.
.

More agreeing you with medhead (shock!). I think engaging them on anything other than facts is just feeding them.

Users need to report based on flying experience, sitting on your computer discussing how amazing another business is (No names here) will not help the community and any valid ideas can become lost.

Mmm somewhat agree. There are some serial offenders here who post statements that aren't from personal experience. As long as they say that up front I dont really mind - but for example I've not flown Ryanair but I'd still pass opinion and judgement on their offering....

 

[jakeseven7]

I seriously can't believe you posted this.

Why? It's a great tune

I was of course just joking with that post, I know straitman will not take offence.

Followed up with a more serious post responding to what I think are valid concerns from people.

Here you go medhead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUntx0pe_qI

 

[pauly7]

LMAO...uh doubt it.

At least tell the whole truth straitman

If you partially deleted every post that was off topic you'd need 100 mods!

To test your statement the off topic text below should disappear:

Rebecca Black 'Friday' is the best song eva'

Hahahhaha post of da year!

Damn you! I just got that song out of my head!! Grrr.

 

[admin]

Yes agree - but they are volunteers as far as I understand it... and there are limits to their time. Whilst I would love some sort of quality filter put in - I just don't think the mods are capable (in terms of time) of implementing. I'm kinda hoping the handful of what you call 'spam' posters will get bored and disappear if people ignore them.

Yes, the mods all volunteer their time. They all have full lives outside of AFF, thankfully. Our mods are committed and dedicated to the smooth running of AFF.

Do we get things wrong sometimes? Sure. Is it intentional? Absolutely not! I know that many of you are moderators on other forums and will testify to the difficulty of the task at times.

We can't please everybody all the time. But what we do do, is to try to consistently apply our moderation principles to all members.

 

[medhead]

Why? It's a great tune

I was of course just joking with that post, I know straitman will not take offence.

Followed up with a more serious post responding to what I think are valid concerns from people.

Here you go medhead: Rebecca Black - Friday [OFFICIAL VIDEO] {Presented by HMEC} - YouTube

Thanks for that That's another 1 minute 35 seconds* I'm not going to get back.



* Yes the video was longer but that was all I could take

 

[NM]

LMAO...uh doubt it.

At least tell the whole truth straitman

If you partially deleted every post that was off topic you'd need 100 mods!

When a thread gets into personal bashing, we will do whatever is required to regain control, and yes that may mean removing off-topic banter that is not making a positive contribution to the thread.

 

[NM]

While I will not comment regarding any specific thread or posts by any spcific members, please note that personal opinions are never moderator unless they breach the posting guidelines. Your posts will not be edited or deleted just because they present a different view to someone elses. Posts will not be edited or deleted just because they contain incorrect information. But if a post crosses the line of personal attack on another member (or any of the other posting guidelines) then you should not be surprised to see it edited or removed.

There is no excuse for a personal attack on another member. Period. It makes no difference if they have posted incorrect information, misrepresented facts, refuse to wear underwear, or voted for Julia Gillard at the last election. There are no rules against those things. But there are rules about personal attacks and those rules will be enforced.

If you disagree with someone's opinion, then you may post stating your opinion or why you hold a different opinion. Robust discussion from people with differing opinions is welcome and will not receive any moderation action. But cross the line and attack the person rather the arguement and action will be taken.

Now obviously different people may interpret "crossing the line" or what constitutes a personal attack in different ways. In such cases, the moderator's actions will be final.

Note that VERY few posts or threads receive any moderation. It is extremely rare. The most common are the few spammers that get through the registration process, removing the occasional duplicate post, removing a few posts deemed "commercial", the occasional request to fix a typo etc in a thread title, and moving threads to a more appropriate forum.

 

[Noob]

Firstly, let put the whole QF/VA segregation rubbish behind - there are obviously some pretty passionate members including myself on both sides of the fence. This is not a VA only affair. I for one, can at least admit the many flaws of VA and where QF is an exceedingly better airline - something which many QF fanboys would never do.

The comments in question where accumulative, on there own they would mean nothing, but the fact is negative comments have been continuously addressed to the member in question for a lengthy period of time. This by definition is harassment, there are no buts about it. Such activities do not create a welcoming and positive forum environment, nor does it allow for interesting discussions.

The member in question has been clearly trying to take on member/moderator/admin advice and has been very careful not to tread on people's toes using "i think" as an example instead of stating something as pure fact. See this as an example, the red text indicating where the said member is obviously trying very hard - and this is the exact post which was then shut down:

"Hey Bob, well i have some exciting news for you! With your 3 points i will answer, if i get them wrong can someone please fix it- cheers.

1. With Virgin's new Business class coast to coast they have priority baggage to make sure your's is first off the plane and collected first, i think they are doing this with the new business class across the fleet as well not just with coast to coast a330 service. I also think you get priority baggage if your velocity gold (please fix this guys if i am incorrect).

2. The seats, now if you have been listening Virgin will be getting rid of the epic failing premium economy and be replacing it with the new sexy ultra new 2x2 config business class seats. Economy has also received a major re-vamp with brand new leather seats and headrests (purple, red and sliver). Some have already said the new business class seats on the 737's are better then QF 737's with the space, the seat itself etc, but that is some of them, the Boeing sky interior (BSI) has a really nice touch too with the mood lighting and space. IFE has yet to be installed as they are yet to reveal a very exciting new system, live2air was a major fail, but i liked watching air crash investigations at 40,000 feet

.

3. There has been a thread recently added that now if you are with velocity you can choose your preferred seat, window, middle or isle. Some of us are speculating, that by the end of they year there will be seat allocation as now they show when you book what aircraft will be operating the flight.

I hope this helps.

Jack"



I would not care if the said member hated my preferred airline and was a die hard Qantas or whatever fan, good for them! However, i do care about harassment, and it is one of the things that really gets on my nerves.

When I first joined this forum I loved it instantly because the lack of this type of nonsense which prevails in many other online communities.

I hope everyone just tries to play nicely, and who cares if someone gets something wrong or makes a mistake? At the end of the day we are all here because we have a common interest - lets embrace that, and encourage passion which is of no shortage in this community.

 

[medhead]

Oh, wow, I actually thought those three points were very good. I actually wanted to add to one of the points. I just cannot imagine how anyone could take exception to the post.

 

[JohnK]

3. These fan boi posts are not encouraging people to fly Virgin but more likely to drive them away.
4. Take all the childish rubbish and coughing to VA's facebook page and leave it there.

Lately, the Virgin forum has become quite irritating, and I can assume that many members and less encouraged to participate now, myself included. You are going to be left with a forum without discussion and a wealth of knowledge but a forum filled with ridiculously biased and often poorly substantiated posts about how awesome a certain company is, and why everyone should be flying them. If you want the forum to be a little cheering ground for Virgin where the same members can post biased opinions rather than a place to share knowledge and information then say so now and stop wasting everyone else's time.

I must have missed all the fun yesterday.

I know I am not a VA fan but I have lost total interest in the VA forum on AFF which is really not good as there are some really good announcements from time to time but I don't read through all the rubbish posted these days.

Seriously? Who gives a sh.. about livery, the business class product raved about over and over, a huge wide body fleet of 2 A330s, toasted sandwiches etc.

 

[Noob]

I must have missed all the fun yesterday.

I know I am not a VA fan but I have lost total interest in the VA forum on AFF which is really not good as there are some really good announcements from time to time but I don't read through all the rubbish posted these days.

Seriously? Who gives a sh.. about livery, the business class product raved about over and over, a huge wide body fleet of 2 A330s, toasted sandwiches etc.

Some people do, if you don't, just don't read it - a simple solution! No need to get angry and negative about it...

Remember, what you see is unnecessary may well be seen differently by others (and the other way around).

 

[serfty]

Some people do, if you don't, just don't read it - a simple solution! No need to get angry and negative about it...

Remember, what you see is unnecessary may we be seen differently by others and the other way around.

As a moderator it is not that easy. As moderators, the onus is on us to read and endeavour to understand each and every post.:-|

 

[straitman]

LMAO...uh doubt it.

At least tell the whole truth straitman

If you partially deleted every post that was off topic you'd need 100 mods!

To test your statement the off topic text below should disappear:

Rebecca Black 'Friday' is the best song eva'

Close but no banana.

By way of explanation for those who may not have understood the whole picture.

1. It would be great if no posts needed to be moderated.
2. We largely do not moderate (read change, edit, or anything similar here) unless we have to do so.
3. A little OT banter is fine so long as it does not detract from or destroy the essence of the thread.
4. People who continually abuse the rules will become unloved very quickly.

 

[straitman]

Some people do, if you don't, just don't read it - a simple solution! No need to get angry and negative about it...

Remember, what you see is unnecessary may we be seen differently by others and the other way around.

I agree that there is no need to get angry however individuals are still entitled to express how they feel about the situation which is exactly what JohnK has done here.

 

[JohnK]

Some people do, if you don't, just don't read it - a simple solution! No need to get angry and negative about it...

Remember, what you see is unnecessary may we be seen differently by others and the other way around.

And there in lies the issue.

I think you have totally missed the point I was trying to make. I am not angry. I am not negative.

But let me say that the VA forum is not a nice place to visit.

If you, or anyone posting in the VA forum, think that is good for VA or the VA forum then I think you are sadly mistaken.

 

[loobloke]

My main concern is that I expressed my opinions about what has been happening in the forums in a mature and non abusive manner only to have it modded out. Quite a bit of it was referring to nearly a page of posts which was deleted, which many of you unless you were following the thread, can no longer see.

There was quite a bit of obvious trolling in the thread which was deleted, which I find justified. However I spent quite a while ensuring my post wasn't trolling when writing it up.

If certain people are free to repeat themselves and spam the forums with what I deem irritating to read, it is being implied to me right now, that suggesting my opinion on what I think of their posts (frustrating to read) is a personal attack on them. Comeon, give me a break.

I'm not saying don't moderate my post and moderate posts I find annoying. I just think that there should be a freedom to express what I think of other people's posts maturely without it being edited, because currently with how the moderation is going in VA, it's just going to become a Virgin cheer squad which will drown out any useful sources of information people are trying to communicate in that forum.

From my post, I was suggesting to some posters to cut the continuously biased opinions and skewed facts, as well as the cheer squad attitude on the VA subforum, as well as other parts of the forum. If objections to certain posts are not voiced, then some posters will have free reign to change the direction of the forum into something I know I will not enjoy reading. They may not even understand the consequences of their posting style, and unless it is bought to their attention, it can never be addressed. I tried to bring this up, only to have it classed as a personal attack (which is quite beyond me) and have it modded out.

So I am just merely pointing out what I thought was a reasonable suggestion to these posters on how to stop getting on people's nerves (both sides are responsible for the trolling just as much) and enlightening them to what some other members may find annoying to read. And all this would hopefully realign the direction of the forum for better.

 

[samh004]

And there in lies the issue.

I think you have totally missed the point I was trying to make. I am not angry. I am not negative.

I noticed that too.

But let me say that the VA forum is not a nice place to visit.

If you, or anyone posting in the VA forum, think that is good for VA or the VA forum then I think you are sadly mistaken.

While the posts in the VA forum were heavily skewed to good experiences before, and before that were heavily skewed to "Vermin", the recent spate of members trying to tarnish their reputation and trying to show that not everything is as good as it seems is what has turned that part of the forum into a deathtrap lately.

While I’ll agree constant fanboy-ism is never great, it’s often those that take offence to said fanboy-ism that bring things down. As without the negativity, it’d all still be peachy, wouldn’t it?

There was quite a bit of obvious trolling in the thread which was deleted, which I find justified. However I spent quite a while ensuring my post wasn't trolling when writing it up.

As someone with Aspergers I was starting to think I was completely misreading the situation, but I’m glad to read I wasn’t.

If certain people are free to repeat themselves and spam the forums with what I deem irritating to read, it is being implied to me right now, that suggesting my opinion on what I think of their posts (frustrating to read) is a personal attack on them. Comeon, give me a break.

I'm not saying don't moderate my post and moderate posts I find annoying. I just think that there should be a freedom to express what I think of other people's posts maturely without it being edited, because currently with how the moderation is going in VA, it's just going to become a Virgin cheer squad which will drown out any useful sources of information people are trying to communicate in that forum.

As others have pointed out, I think I see your problem here. You are free to disagree with their opinion, and to attack the argument, but if you are perceived to be attacking them, because of their opinion, then there’s an issue.

It doesn’t matter how mature it is, but rather if it’s the argument/opinion or the person.

 

[medhead]

If certain people are free to repeat themselves and spam the forums with what I deem irritating to read, it is being implied to me right now, that suggesting my opinion on what I think of their posts (frustrating to read) is a personal attack on them. Comeon, give me a break.

I'm not saying don't moderate my post and moderate posts I find annoying. I just think that there should be a freedom to express what I think of other people's posts maturely without it being edited, because currently with how the moderation is going in VA, it's just going to become a Virgin cheer squad which will drown out any useful sources of information people are trying to communicate in that forum.

Just to expand on what Samh004 has said. If you deem the posts to be irritating and express that opinion that is a personal attack, of sorts. Same with express what you think of other people's posts. People are free to make their posts, by saying what you think of their posts that is personal. Same with telling people that their opinions a baised and facts skewed.

This is not to say that you can't reply. You could ignore these posts if they are generally misguided but otherwise harmless. Otherwise the way to object to posts that you believe are biased opinions and skewed facts, is actually say why you have a different opinion and to present non-skewed facts. In other words express what you think not what you think of them and their posts.

Also the way to correct posting style is to practice what you preach so to speak; lead by example*. Telling someone their posting style is wrong is a personal attack. But providing a good example is not and those people should eventually adopt a better style. If they don't then people will stop reading their posts, and they then will not become a distraction with people feeling the need to reply.**

From my post, I was suggesting to some posters to cut the continuously biased opinions and skewed facts, as well as the cheer squad attitude on the VA subforum, as well as other parts of the forum. If objections to certain posts are not voiced, then some posters will have free reign to change the direction of the forum into something I know I will not enjoy reading. They may not even understand the consequences of their posting style, and unless it is bought to their attention, it can never be addressed. I tried to bring this up, only to have it classed as a personal attack (which is quite beyond me) and have it modded out.

So I am just merely pointing out what I thought was a reasonable suggestion to these posters on how to stop getting on people's nerves (both sides are responsible for the trolling just as much) and enlightening them to what some other members may find annoying to read. And all this would hopefully realign the direction of the forum for better.

Or in other words = "You get on my nerves, stop it". That can be rather personal.



* This is not to say you don't lead by example
** Yes, highly ironic for me to be posting this, hopefully some get a laugh at my expense.

 

[pauly7]

If certain people are free to repeat themselves and spam the forums with what I deem irritating to read, it is being implied to me right now, that suggesting my opinion on what I think of their posts (frustrating to read) is a personal attack on them. Comeon, give me a break.

I'm not saying don't moderate my post and moderate posts I find annoying. I just think that there should be a freedom to express what I think of other people's posts maturely without it being edited, because currently with how the moderation is going in VA, it's just going to become a Virgin cheer squad which will drown out any useful sources of information people are trying to communicate in that forum.

From my post, I was suggesting to some posters to cut the continuously biased opinions and skewed facts, as well as the cheer squad attitude on the VA subforum, as well as other parts of the forum.

So I am just merely pointing out what I thought was a reasonable suggestion to these posters on how to stop getting on people's nerves (both sides are responsible for the trolling just as much) and enlightening them to what some other members may find annoying to read. And all this would hopefully realign the direction of the forum for better.

I really do agree with the parts I've quoted above because I feel it really applies to me!

I'm very eager to cast the ruler over the VA new offering(s) and potentially start using them and their network as my 2nd tier FF.

So I'm really interested in new developments in VA - but unfortunately that part of the forum is just full of rubbish non value adding posts and threads.

I liken it to commercial FTA v the ABC. I feel like the rest of the forum remains quite factual and pointy but wow it's a mission to dig out the nugget in that sub forum! Ironically it is almost behaving opposite to what in essence VA is trying to do! - If I was the VA rep I'd be horrified

Perhaps the AFF needs a tighter scope/mission statement to remain more professional? - if that's what Admin want! They might have other goals and objectives, who knows - it's their prerogative.

I mod in a health/fitness/body building forum about the same size as AFF. We have a much younger and let's say 'broader' lol user base so we have to mod the direction a little more to keep the cough out and keep it professional - after all I don't want a newbie acting on loose non fact based opinion and cheer squads.... Bit different I know but just another angle.

 

[mannej]

The role of the moderators on here is not an easy one.

Whilst I enjoy some of the heated debate, I do agree that it may not be ideal in the long run to condone it.

I do agree personal attacks are unacceptable, and I hope I wasn't seen as attacking a member of an article he posted, however the fact the article he posted had several clear inaccuracies was the issue that I had.

I say long live the debate, but keep it above the belt.

As for the mods, I do feel they do a good job.