Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations

[stu961]

Whilst the Australian Government has a "Do Not Travel" to Qatar (and UAE), you are on your own without effective travel insurance if you get stuck for any reason there whilst on transit.

Absolutely, no insurance if war is ongoing at time of flights .... hence why I would need to be able to cancel flights on good terms i.e. no fees or very small fee or swap out for dates in future etc... effectively a free/cheap "option"

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Whilst the Australian Government has a "Do Not Travel" to Qatar (and UAE), you are on your own without effective travel insurance if you get stuck for any reason there whilst on transit.

It seems plenty people travel without travel insurance as it is, or take risks which invalidate their insurance (scooter riding in Bali for example), get drunk, take part in dangerous activities such as quad biking, or simply have pre-existing conditions which are too expensive to cover.

A brief transit in the ME probably isn’t high on the list of concerns?

 

[kpc]

It seems plenty people travel without travel insurance as it is, or take risks which invalidate their insurance (scooter riding in Bali for example), get drunk, take part in dangerous activities such as quad biking, or simply have pre-existing conditions which are too expensive to cover.

A brief transit in the ME probably isn’t high on the list of concerns?

And when they get into trouble, they start "Gofund me" pages when the Australian Government refuses financial assistance

 

[Pushka]

Absolutely, no insurance if war is ongoing at time of flights .... hence why I would need to be able to cancel flights on good terms i.e. no fees or very small fee or swap out for dates in future etc... effectively a free/cheap "option"

There's no insurance for war if already travelling and it erupts suddenly which is pretty poor. Hardly a known event at time of commencement.

 

[Saab34]

Insurers would probably go broke if they needed to cover wars, especially the Middle East, talking millions of people. They won’t have the funds behind them to look after everyone.

 

[Brissy1]

There's no insurance for war if already travelling and it erupts suddenly which is pretty poor. Hardly a known event at time of commencement.

Yes. Policies vary of course but the 3 I've activated (cr cards) all exclude any Act of war, unsurprisingly .But if say you have medical expenses unrelated to war then are you covered? Sharing my readings of pds, my bolding,

1. Macquarie (Chubb) - No. No coverage for anything in "Do not Travel" level countries. Doesn't specify "Reconsider your need to travel" level countries so presumably ok there. (P54 1. i.)

2. St George (Allianz) - unclear but arguably Yes. Exclusion is if "your claim arises because you...did not follow..."Do not Travel" or "Reconsider your need to travel" levels. So it might come down to the reason for the smart traveller warning, if you're in hospital because of war shrapnel or because of normal medical condition. (P31)

3. MyCard (Allianz) - unclear but arguably Yes. Exclusion is if "expense caused by or arising from...you not following advice..." from Smart Traveller DnT or Reconsider... (P14)

Unfortunately (?) I'm not a lawyer but would probably need one to argue the case.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes. Policies vary of course but the 3 I've activated (cr cards) all exclude any Act of war, unsurprisingly .But if say you have medical expenses unrelated to war then are you covered? Sharing my readings of pds, my bolding,

1. Macquarie (Chubb) - No. No coverage for anything in "Do not Travel" level countries. Doesn't specify "Reconsider your need to travel" level countries so presumably ok there. (P54 1. i.)

2. St George (Allianz) - unclear but arguably Yes. Exclusion is if "your claim arises because you...did not follow..."Do not Travel" or "Reconsider your need to travel" levels. So it might come down to the reason for the smart traveller warning, if you're in hospital because of war shrapnel or because of normal medical condition. (P31)

3. MyCard (Allianz) - unclear but arguably Yes. Exclusion is if "expense caused by or arising from...you not following advice..." from Smart Traveller DnT or Reconsider... (P14)

Unfortunately (?) I'm not a lawyer but would probably need one to argue the case.

Two levels to this.

No cover for anything if you go to a ‘do not travel’ country (or ‘reconsider’ for some policies). Even if unrelated to the ‘do not travel’ reason.

Separately there’s a general exclusion for anything related to wars (and several other things).

If you happened to be in a ‘safe’ (permitted) country at the commencement of war, and had an unrelated injury (for example you missed a step and fell over), you’d be covered for the medical. But not if hit by shrapnel.

You wouldn’t be covered for flight delays and cancellations if caused by the outbreak of hostilities.

 

[Pushka]

Yes. Policies vary of course but the 3 I've activated (cr cards) all exclude any Act of war, unsurprisingly .But if say you have medical expenses unrelated to war then are you covered? Sharing my readings of pds, my bolding,

1. Macquarie (Chubb) - No. No coverage for anything in "Do not Travel" level countries. Doesn't specify "Reconsider your need to travel" level countries so presumably ok there. (P54 1. i.)

2. St George (Allianz) - unclear but arguably Yes. Exclusion is if "your claim arises because you...did not follow..."Do not Travel" or "Reconsider your need to travel" levels. So it might come down to the reason for the smart traveller warning, if you're in hospital because of war shrapnel or because of normal medical condition. (P31)

3. MyCard (Allianz) - unclear but arguably Yes. Exclusion is if "expense caused by or arising from...you not following advice..." from Smart Traveller DnT or Reconsider... (P14)

Unfortunately (?) I'm not a lawyer but would probably need one to argue the case.

But even travelling into a ‘safe’ (ok to enter) country I don’t think you are covered if war breaks out while there.

 

[AuSammy]

But even travelling into a ‘safe’ (ok to enter) country I don’t think you are covered if war breaks out while there.

Not even war - usually any form of civil unrest or terrorism

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But even travelling into a ‘safe’ (ok to enter) country I don’t think you are covered if war breaks out while there.

Not for anything war related. But you would be covered if you slipped and fell.

The exclusion is almost always written along the lines that they will not cover any loss or damage arising from… any act of war, whether war has been declared or not.

So if you are in country at the time, anything which arises outside of an ‘act of war’ would be covered.

If you are not yet ‘in country’, the exclusion of ‘do not travel’ or ‘reconsider travel’ would apply.

 

[RooFlyer]

Meet a French couple today on my cruise who live in Abu Dhabi. I naturally asked if things were getting back to some sort of normal.

They said they lived on the Corniche near the Presidential palace and that the war hasn’t affected them much at all. Doing things they always normally did ( going out, shopping etc). Just the occasional missile going overhead and an alarm going off . A case of ‘war? What war?’. I’m certain they were quite serious.

 

[Brissy1]

Two levels to this.

No cover for anything if you go to a ‘do not travel’ country (or ‘reconsider’ for some policies). Even if unrelated to the ‘do not travel’ reason.

Separately there’s a general exclusion for anything related to wars (and several other things).

If you happened to be in a ‘safe’ (permitted) country at the commencement of war, and had an unrelated injury (for example you missed a step and fell over), you’d be covered for the medical. But not if hit by shrapnel.

You wouldn’t be covered for flight delays and cancellations if caused by the outbreak of hostilities.

Yes in my 3 policies all exclude Acts of war.

If an event not related to war (toothache) occurs in a "do not travel"country Macquarie ins. clearly states, nothing is covered. However other PDS are different, stating an expense is not covered if "caused by or arising from" travelling to do not travel advice countries. So if the expense (say dentistry) is not "caused by or arising" from travelling against that advice, isn't it not excluded?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes in my 3 policies all exclude Acts of war.

If an event not related to war (toothache) occurs in a "do not travel"country Macquarie ins. clearly states, nothing is covered. However other PDS are different, stating an expense is not covered if "caused by or arising from" travelling to do not travel advice countries. So if the expense (say dentistry) is not "caused by or arising" from travelling against that advice, isn't it not excluded?

Good question, and you’d need to read the entire PDS, with how the exclusions are applied either generally or to each section.

Which policy in particular are you looking at? Would be interesting to have a look.

 

[arrow]

Good question, and you’d need to read the entire PDS, with how the exclusions are applied either generally or to each section.

Which policy in particular are you looking at? Would be interesting to have a look.

The exclusions where there’s ambiguity or a second order claim are often drafted in the favour of the insurer, so you need to be extra careful

 

[Brissy1]

Good question, and you’d need to read the entire PDS, with how the exclusions are applied either generally or to each section.

Which policy in particular are you looking at? Would be interesting to have a look.

This is the StGeorge one

https://www.mycard.com.au/content/dam/mycard/documents/terms-and-conditions/complimentary-insurance-policy-information-booklet.pdf

P.15 para 6. to be read in conjunction with (my bold) the preamble on p. 14 "we do not cover you for any loss, damage or expense caused by or arising from: "

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This is the StGeorge one

https://www.mycard.com.au/content/dam/mycard/documents/terms-and-conditions/complimentary-insurance-policy-information-booklet.pdf

P.15 para 6. to be read in conjunction with (my bold) the preamble on p. 14 "we do not cover you for any loss, damage or expense caused by or arising from: "

I think on the ordinary reading they will not pay any claim arising from you not following advice to ‘not travel’. If you didn’t travel, you might still have got a sore tooth, but that wouldn’t be covered by TI.

‘Not following advice’ to ‘not travel’ might sound like a double negative, but it distinguishes from cases where you might be able to claim because you *did* follow advice to not travel (for example if there was a natural disaster). In those cases you might get back your cancellation fees etc.