Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes in Ukraine

[JessicaTam]

Dreadful news. I have just had the chance to catch up with some TV footage and skim read this thread.

It seems that it was an error by militants, not knowing it was a civilian aircraft. And now they are trying to apportion blame elsewhere.

A tragedy regardless of the cause and who may to blame.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Dreadful news. I have just had the chance to catch up with some TV footage and skim read this thread.

It seems that it was an error by militants, not knowing it was a civilian aircraft. And now they are trying to apportion blame elsewhere.

A tragedy regardless of the cause and who may to blame.

i believe this is the case also, they had recently shot down two Ukrainian military aircraft and thought they'd get another. The comments about "our skies" and "landing in spies" demonstrates how ignorant they were about the airspace above them. The Alleged Russian support behind it shouldn't go unnoticed either.

 

[under the radar]

Horribly tragic.

In the fullness of time I hope that we find what really has happened. If Russia is found to have supplied the weapon, then I hope the world collectively has the gumption to take them to task. Not that it will bring back any of the people who have lost their lives - for nothing.

'wherever' the weapon came from/'whoever' gave the weapon to the MURDERERS...they will never accept responsibility...and sadly I think 'the rest of the world' may just give 'a slap on the wrist' to the 'suppliers' of these WEAPONS OF DEATH...and the world will keep turning...and we will keep drifting from one 'self induced crisis to another'...

without mentioning 'names'...those are my views (because I just don't wanna enter into THAT debate)

let's just say...I will be voicing my concerns IF a certain country attends the G20...and China isn't the biggest threat to the world

 

[casanovawa]

Shocked as I heard the news this morning. RIP to all on the flight.

With the suggestions that the "Black Boxes" will go to Russia I wonder how they will respond given their involvement in KA007 and retaining the boxes for years restricting the effectiveness of the investigations for years.

I think Moscow doesn't want any part of having those black boxes or with their history of being serial liars for the last 100 years the slightest discrepancy and they will be convicted in the court of public opinion that they had something to do with it and something to hide, at least at present if it was some muppet in a separatist group there is some level of deniability of responsibility to clueless types...

 

[drron]

i believe this is the case also, they had recently shot down two Ukrainian military aircraft and thought they'd get another. The comments about "our skies" and "landing in spies" demonstrates how ignorant they were about the airspace above them. The Alleged Russian support behind it shouldn't go unnoticed either.

Though before this crash occurred the Ukrainians had said the missiles that shot down 2 of their aircraft this week came from the Russian side of the border.
Russian Jets Shot Down Ukrainian Warplane: Kiev

 

[casanovawa]

i believe this is the case also, they had recently shot down two Ukrainian military aircraft and thought they'd get another. The comments about "our skies" and "landing in spies" demonstrates how ignorant they were about the airspace above them. The Alleged Russian support behind it shouldn't go unnoticed either.

It absolutely shouldn't go unnoticed, its why the the US and the Europeans were reluctant to send hi tech gear to the Syrian Rebels as without knowing who you are dealing with or what they're are capable of, the hi tech weapons you give them may be used incorrectly or even again your own interests...

The Russkies seemed happy to supply this bunch (and I've heard analysts say that novices couldn't operate these advanced weapon systems anyway, so who knows what human resources they are supplying also) so they definitely should take some of the blame and some of the heat...

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Not supporting the Russians nor am I condoning the actions of the Russians but am I the only one that might consider the fact that the rebels might have gotten their hands on the BUK SAMs from the Ukrainian AA military base? I think there might be a couple sources that state that the base did have BUK SAMs on the base.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/07/17/3461351/mh17-ukraine/

 

[Deleted member]

A Defence Minister from (pro-Russian) Donetsk claims to have shot down a Ukranian a/c at the same time MH17 lost contact.

Is he suggesting they made a mistake? and are cough covering ?

 

[drron]

Talk of that over on FT.Apparently the rebels tweeted earlier this week that they had done that.plus a link to a You Tube video that is said to be a Russian official 3 days ago telling the rebels that they would be sending people to give instructions on how to use them.The link was all in Russian and the usual translators weren't working so I cant verify that.

 

[burmans]

Is he suggesting they made a mistake? and are cough covering ?

No they claimed to have shot down the plane before they realised they had shot down a civilian jet. Pretty clear they are cough covering really.

 

[drron]

An interesting map after the shoot down-

 

[burmans]

As you say yourself, just because another does it doesn't mean everyone should do it.

I would suggest the industry takes more of this sort of risk than prudent, and more than its passengers are aware. I would expect many think a full service carrier from a western country doesn't take this risk (and my opinion is it shouldn't, that's why we pay more for a smarter airline)

Matt

So which route would you have them fly instead to avoid this risk?

 

[burmans]

An interesting map after the shoot down-

Actually would have quite liked to see the map just before the shoot down.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Is he suggesting they made a mistake? and are cough covering ?

Well it was a mistake shooting down a civilian aircraft instead of a Ukraine military jet not that the latter situation is acceptable either.

The tv footage shown of the Ukraine military jet with a blue & yellow shield on the tail could've been footage from 3 days ago.

What I don't know is if there were two SAM's fired & there was actually a Ukrainian jet shot down as well at the same time as MH17 or what they thought was a military jet was in fact MH17 so only one SAM fired.

One witness reported seeing 'two planes' crashing however if MH17 broke up at high altitude he could have seen two parts of the same aircraft coming down as wreckage was apparently spread over a 16 km
radius.

It would've disintegrated high up not unlike the mid-air collisions involving Saudia & Air Kazakh over India or DHL & Bashkerian over Germany.

 

[Jack_OC]

An interesting map after the shoot down-

Does it make sense for planes to fly just across the border in Russian airspace, as appears to be happening in this image? Wouldn't a SAM still be able to get them there? In fact, isn't there a suggestion that some or all of the missiles in recent days may have actually been fired from the Russian side of the border? I would have thought planes would be well advised steering clear of anywhere near the border, on either side.

 

[Himeno]

How does DFAT know so much about the Australians on board so quickly?

 

[burmans]

Does it make sense for planes to fly just across the border in Russian airspace, as appears to be happening in this image? Wouldn't a SAM still be able to get them there? In fact, isn't there a suggestion that some or all of the missiles in recent days may have actually been fired from the Russian side of the border? I would have thought planes would be well advised steering clear of anywhere near the border, on either side.

Not at all when the reports from previous days of the jets shot down suggest the rockets may have come from the Russian side of the border!

 

[markis10]

How does DFAT know so much about the Australians on board so quickly?

Err, manifest with passport numbers :shock:

 

[get me outta here]

And, Smart traveller on DFAT site, which we all fill out before leaving the country, don't we.

How does DFAT know so much about the Australians on board so quickly?

 

[SeatBackForward]

28 Australians on board.