Let us know your most outrageous thoughts on any topic about flying

[Matt_01]

.....Whether or not EK is in the 'top five' would be arguable. AF, SQ, LX and LH would be in the top four. Next in line? JL, EY, QR or EK?

But isn’t this all subjective, from your top 4, only SQ runs F out of AU, as for next in line I would agree with 3 of the 4 having never EY in any class. I have no idea how the Skytrax or Freddy Awards work but have received surveys from both, mainly Freddy via VA. After a quick look at the questions, any response will be influenced from personal and ease of travel experience. A quick look at Skytrax results (past 3 years 2016-18) would suggest that SQ, QR, EK, CX and ANA are in the top 5 although noted CX dropped to 6th once.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But isn’t this all subjective, from your top 4, only SQ runs F out of AU, as for next in line I would agree with 3 of the 4 having never EY in any class. I have no idea how the Skytrax or Freddy Awards work but have received surveys from both, mainly Freddy via VA. After a quick look at the questions, any response will be influenced from personal and ease of travel experience. A quick look at Skytrax results (past 3 years 2016-18) would suggest that SQ, QR, EK, CX and ANA are in the top 5 although noted CX dropped to 6th once.

Oh yes. I forgot about CX in the mix!

I don't know how these surveys work. Someone like LH F where you either have to pay, or book within 14 days of departure might mean the sample size is quite small. Certainly I don't see how ANA with their awful 'box' seats blocking the windows and wine glasses for champagne could be in the top 5. And their IFE is woeful.

LH/LX/AF are all available ex AU in combination with other airlines - mostly SQ F to SIN for LH and LX, or CX J via HKG for AF F. (Dunno if the QF partnership has opened up an AF F option via SIN.)

 

[TonyHancock]

In a moment of ennui I feel compelled to respond. I have yet to experience the latest EK F product but would place QR and EY above the EK F I experienced five years ago.

As for the bar, the concept has not appealed to me at all. I am generally misanthropic so the prospect of joining another member of humankind at a bar when I could be sitting in a suite and relaxing is as appealing as the Fred Perry QF F menu.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ah! Now that's a good point! Perhaps Max's friends had spied the new EK F suites? They received a lot of press here. I can understand expecting those and being dissapointed by the 'regular' F.

 

[Forg]

The concept of striking up an enjoyable conversation with a random person in that bar is brilliant; I overheard existing conversations that I’d quite like to have taken part in! But in reality I’d have felt I was intruding into their space & didn’t butt into those conversations ... in theory it’s my thing but in practice I’m too shy, so back in front of the IFE goes I.

The QF A388 upgrades include a bar, when they come online, don’t they? Can’t be that long now?

 

[TonyHancock]

The concept of striking up an enjoyable conversation with a random person in that bar is brilliant;

No it isn't.

 

[Max Samuels]

The comment about the shower is probably 'fake news'. But they probably have no point of comparison. But the bar is actually small. The food isn't really all that good.

Whether or not EK is in the 'top five' would be arguable. AF, SQ, LX and LH would be in the top four. Next in line? JL, EY, QR or EK?

Well I think your comment sums it up perfectly: not too long ago, EK F was pretty much regarded the world over as the "best" - a simple internet search will confirm that.

But, people being the terrible things we are, are fickle. What did EK do wrong? What changed? Or did we just "tire" of them?

Interestingly, the airlines you mention above - especially the European ones - didn't even get a mention 5 years ago. The top 10 was pretty much dominated for a decade by Mid Eastern and Asian airlines... the traditional anglo airlines that essentially invented air travel had vanished altogether from that list. But I too have noticed their return.... recent reviews have put LH, LX and AF at the top - and I ask you honestly - have you actually flown them? I haven't - and I was surprised to see the sudden reappearance in the list. AF has a terrible reputation and its staff are always on strike and the future of the airline often seems uncertain, which makes it so unlikely to have the best anything, right? Which made me think - is this a thing? Are we actually seeing the come back of European airlines? When for so long we have experienced the excellence of Asian (and more recently) Mid east airlines? I mean - Swiss Air? What kind of network do they have? Who transits through Zurich? What kind of infrastructure at a Swiss airport could even rival HKG or DXB??? Once again - I have not flown them - but a quick analysis of fleet size and number of routes makes having the best of anything a strange business proposition, right?

Maybe some random one-off flight on AF's new F in the select fleet of 777 it operates on was good (and I am planning to do that next year!). But, as far as a consistent product goes, on an entire fleet of A380, EK seems to be doing OK for me - at least on the 12 or times I have flown it. Anyway, one of the gurus of airline reviews most recently put EK's new 777 first as best.... so I guess it is all just a matter of taste

 

[Max Samuels]

The QF A388 upgrades include a bar, when they come online, don’t they? Can’t be that long now?

Nope. I think that was fake news too.... they said the "social area" which is already lame, was going to get "expanded". The day QF do something innovative and interesting in the air for the pax is the day that they basically fire their entire management and hire someone that didn't used to run a budget airline. Seriously - it is like hiring the manager of the YMCA to manage the Ritz - sure they can make it "profitable" but not a good experience for their guests.

Remember - before AJ "tweaked" earn rates on partner airlines QF was hemorrhaging passengers to CX and BA ex Australia (i know this to be true - can't reveal sources - quick internet search will confirm). Why oh why oh why would any QF member fly the sub-standard rat when they can get the same SCs on CX or BA often for lower prices with better connections??? I used to fly to Asia for work 12x year to various places and would ALWAYS fly CX - and half the passengers were also QF members!! It was kind of an inside joke amongst everyone. But then AJ caught on.... and rather than improving his product as a normal person would do, he just cut us off from the competition........ but I digress.

In answer to your question: No. The new QF A380 will not be like the EK A380.

 

[Forg]

The problem with EK, as with any Chinese airline, is that you feel a bit uncomfortable around the FA’s as you’re not entirely sure whether they’re legitimately earning money in a job or whether they’re working for free to keep their enslaved family from being terminated.

*edit*
Fake News indeed, QF even went so far as publishing photos of a bar when announcing the upgrades!

 

[Max Samuels]

A quick look at Skytrax results (past 3 years 2016-18) would suggest that SQ, QR, EK, CX and ANA are in the top 5 although noted CX dropped to 6th once.

Exactly my point - the European airlines don't even make a mention and now suddenly they are the darling???
Pleeeaaaseeeee............... I am all for seeing a comeback of the motherland but let's do it honestly.... no need for MAGA country here

 

[Max Samuels]

Fake News indeed, QF even went so far as publishing photos of a bar when announcing the upgrades!

You mean this bar????

Qantas announces major cabin upgrade for A380 fleet

Keep up to date with Qantas' latest news and information, media releases, articles, images and more with the Qantas News Room.

www.qantasnewsroom.com.au

All we need is Mary Tyler Moore to turn up and we've completed our 70s refurb just in time for 2020.
I'd rather schlep it in EK bar, with my own personal bottle of Dom that they bring up just for me, than sit in that bar... looks like a handbag that burnt in a car fire, to be honest

 

[Max Samuels]

Whether or not EK is in the 'top five' would be arguable. AF, SQ, LX and LH would be in the top four. Next in line? JL, EY, QR or EK?

From what I can gather EK, EY and QR seem to be interchangeable for most travelers.... just some <insert name> mid eastern airline that flies via <insert name> some mid eastern city that 20 years ago was a hole in the desert with lovely young FAs from <insert name> some eastern european country with <insert name> some new outrageous features aboard the aircraft.....

 

[Forg]

^ True dat ... and the FA’s are probably stoned to death if they’re caught by their superiors making a mistake.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well I think your comment sums it up perfectly: not too long ago, EK F was pretty much regarded the world over as the "best" - a simple internet search will confirm that.

But, people being the terrible things we are, are fickle. What did EK do wrong? What changed? Or did we just "tire" of them?

Interestingly, the airlines you mention above - especially the European ones - didn't even get a mention 5 years ago. The top 10 was pretty much dominated for a decade by Mid Eastern and Asian airlines... the traditional anglo airlines that essentially invented air travel had vanished altogether from that list. But I too have noticed their return.... recent reviews have put LH, LX and AF at the top - and I ask you honestly - have you actually flown them? I haven't - and I was surprised to see the sudden reappearance in the list. AF has a terrible reputation and its staff are always on strike and the future of the airline often seems uncertain, which makes it so unlikely to have the best anything, right? Which made me think - is this a thing? Are we actually seeing the come back of European airlines? When for so long we have experienced the excellence of Asian (and more recently) Mid east airlines? I mean - Swiss Air? What kind of network do they have? Who transits through Zurich? What kind of infrastructure at a Swiss airport could even rival HKG or DXB??? Once again - I have not flown them - but a quick analysis of fleet size and number of routes makes having the best of anything a strange business proposition, right?

Maybe some random one-off flight on AF's new F in the select fleet of 777 it operates on was good (and I am planning to do that next year!). But, as far as a consistent product goes, on an entire fleet of A380, EK seems to be doing OK for me - at least on the 12 or times I have flown it. Anyway, one of the gurus of airline reviews most recently put EK's new 777 first as best.... so I guess it is all just a matter of taste

There's a lot that can be 'unpacked' in your statement, and things aren't necessarily what they seem.

The ME airlines have made the news with slick marketing and amenities such as chauffered cars and on-board showers. For a long time they were also very cheap, roughly half the price of their Euro competitors. And it was why you'd find so many ME planes filled with ex-UK or ex-EU travellers. For £3K return to Australia, why not fly first class? And when you can fill 14 seats at a time at that price, of course you're probably more likely to win surverys and be in the top ten. They delivered outstanding value.

But the whole 'Emirates Experience' with their suites and showers only started with the A380. And that's only been in service 10 or so years. A flash in the pan compared to the 100 years KLM has been around. The european airlines never went anywhere, really. They have consistently provided the same service through the rise of the ME carriers, and demise of others. A major difference though is that they don't compete on price - it's not the market they are after. Switzerland and Germany have the corporate and private wealth to support F. Plus Switerland has the huge UN and diplomatic corps to support F. Swiss airports have the right infrastructure for the services they offer.

In 2017-18 BA had revenues of over USD1 billion on the LHR-JFK market, a cool USD24,600 an hour. They operate 7474s TATL with 14F and 86J. Did Air France and BA ever 'go away'? The figures would suggest not. Are they going to win 'top 10' in the glitz and glamour stakes? The outcomes of surveys would suggest not. But that doesn't mean they aren't hugely popular.

 

[ajd]

Social media posts, outside of frequent flyer forums where we're allowed to brag, where you tag yourself in an airline lounge should be punishable by negative status credits, with the penalty increasing the more of said posts you make per status year. Maybe an allowance of 1 per year.

 

[oz_mark]

Social media posts, outside of frequent flyer forums where we're allowed to brag, where you tag yourself in an airline lounge should be punishable by negative status credits, with the penalty increasing the more of said posts you make per status year. Maybe an allowance of 1 per year.

If you don't tag yourself in a lounge on social media, were you really there?

 

[drron]

No it isn't.

Especially if that random person turned out to be me.

 

[drron]

So something even more outrageous.
Both BA and QF do priority baggage much better than SQ.One of our tagged priority bags came out well down the order,

 

[Forg]

So something even more outrageous.
Both BA and QF do priority baggage much better than SQ. One of our tagged priority bags came out well down the order,

I must admit to some amazement that QF did it so well, back when my better half was QF Platinum. Our bags always came out very very near the front, in the first dozen or so.

 

[Max Samuels]

Did Air France and BA ever 'go away'? The figures would suggest not. Are they going to win 'top 10' in the glitz and glamour stakes? The outcomes of surveys would suggest not. But that doesn't mean they aren't hugely popular.

Well actually I struggle to find one good thing written about BA's first product - I dare you to find a glowing review of BA from the past 5 years! When I said "go away" I meant that these airlines used to be the standard of excellence... that they have gone away from the top - not ceased operating. Anyway your logic is flawed - the operating revenues of the airlines is irrelevant as to whether or not the F product is the best (which is what we are talking about). By your logic, AA should be at the top... and I think nobody here will support that idea!