Late to bag drop - QF SYD airport experience

[justinbrett]

We are not talking about rebookings for no shows.

Good. Because that was really the only debate to be had (having to call a call centre to change your flight when you're already at the airport and the flights you want are already in airport control) - and that's why I suggested it should be taken to a different thread because it was off topic.

The debate about missing the baggage acceptance cut off was over many, many posts ago. How exactly are you saying this one incident means no QF staff will never apply discretion again? OP lost this time. Doesn't mean the same result will happen next time. Discretion - it can go either way.

And just to remind everybody, QF did apply discretion by allowing rebooking (and not cancelling the connection - not even the upgrade) at no cost. That's more than the entitlement.

 

[RichardMEL]

I can see both sides to this.

For me there are a couple of issues. Where does one draw the line? Things happen and we can be delayed (it's happened to me on at MEL rushing for a MEL-SYD-LAX connection - so not trivial! Another time it happened at PDX on a PDX-LAX-MEL trip... I clearly have an issue with LAX related trips!).

Add if one arrived at 1430 is it 1429 or 1431? Where's the line of discretion?

At the same time QF (like most airlines) are battling with bag issues, loading delays etc... imagine pax on that 1500 flight being delayed X further minutes delayed to load bags for a late pax?

Common sense would see the pax boarded for sure - but what if it was 1432? 1435? Operations are already strained with issues....

We all know JQ has a VERY strict cut off no questions and I'm not surprised QF had changed to this too. I don't think 30min prior is unreasonable - specially at a SYD, BNE or MEL. Only places like ARM could you show up 15-20min prior and be good (well before they put in security).

Pax being late or BARELY on the cusp should I reckon take some responsibility for that and accept if it's no then it's no. If I was on that 1500 flight and had to wait for more bags and pax (after all what if it took the pax another 20 minutes to get through security, then more to get to the aircraft) I may not be impressed if a delay became significant.

I'm not trying to assign blame here - as I noted I've been in this situation myself due to unforseen circumstances and I've been lucky(though fully expecting a big fat no given it was on me for not showing up early enough - so things happen.. but the other side of the coin is the impact on operations and potential delays to "just accept one more bag" can have. Pushing pax to the phone to be rebooked is probably the core issue though as we all know what a Cluster that can be for pax. Few agents left on the floor may not even have the access o ability to perform these tasks (let alone anything in their EBA and whatever about doing so) - plus tying them up from checking folks in... so does handling late pax potentially inconvenience many others who have been on time?

 

[tdimdad]

Is one the challenges in these situations that the passenger and their luggage are coupled closely together (for security reasons, they say)? Presuming the bags go through the same security screening in all cases, how feasible would it be to accept the bag in late for a "best effort" transport, i.e. on one of the future flights where there is room for it? The passenger would collect it at the destination from the luggage belt like they'd been on that flight. With connections, again, "best effort" but no guarantees.

This would, though, probably call for an integration between the luggage tracking system and passenger MMB so that they know on which flight the bag is arriving on (or 'last known good location' = where it was last seen before losing it into a black hole...).

If you are in the East Coast triangle at a peak hour, often times the next flight arrives before yours so your late bag could be at the destination before you...

 

[RealtimeY]

Pushing pax to the phone to be rebooked is probably the core issue though as we all know what a Cluster that can be for pax

Case in point, the phone agent didn't know what to do either.

And when the "angel" calls to solve what the check-in staff couldn't, it only further highlights the breakdown in service. Consistently inconsistent. Very poor customer experience, even if it may be the customer at fault.

 

[levelnine]

One problem is that everyone thinks they arrive within "seconds" of T-30.
Again when is the cutoff?


Its not a degradation of service because it has been T-30 for years. That some have come to "expect" a bailout which they may not get now is not a degradation of service, rather I see it as the proper application/enforcement of checkin rules.

You seem to have a problem comprehending basic reality. Where is the evidence that we have some epidemic of people thinking they've arrived within seconds of T-30, abusing the previous system?

None whatsoever.

It is hilarious that the QF apologists on this thread think there was some problem of people trying to check in past the deadline, presumably causing flights to be delayed, when on time performance is currently the worst it has ever been. If this new policy of complete inflexibility is supposed to be improving on time performance, it is having precisely the opposite effect LOL.

When you switch from an in-person agent who can assist you to the best of their ability to an offshore call centre that can't even comprehend the nature of your call, that is a degradation of service. I do understand it can be hard to face basic facts.

 

[levelnine]

How exactly are you saying this one incident means no QF staff will never apply discretion again?

You seem to have missed the changes that occurred in 2020:

Qantas will permanently close its service and sales desks at all airports and lounges, leaving passengers to deal with cancellations and last-minute booking changes themselves at self-service kiosks, online or through a call centre.

Qantas to shut airport service desks, force customers onto self-service

Qantas will permanently close its service and sales desks at all airports and lounges, leaving passengers to deal with cancellations and last-minute booking changes at kiosks, online or through a call centre.

www.smh.com.au

 

[justinbrett]

You seem to have missed the changes that occurred in 2020:

Qantas to shut airport service desks, force customers onto self-service

Qantas will permanently close its service and sales desks at all airports and lounges, leaving passengers to deal with cancellations and last-minute booking changes at kiosks, online or through a call centre.

www.smh.com.au

You don't check in at the service desk. There is still staffed check in.

 

[levelnine]

There is still staffed check in.

With only the power to tell you to call Suva.

 

[justinbrett]

With only the power to tell you to call Suva.

That was her saying no, you're too late. Doesn't mean every other staff member will do the same.

 

[levelnine]

That was her saying no, you're too late. Doesn't mean every other staff member will do the same.

You clearly have not been following what's happened at Qantas.

This is the new normal:

I returned recently from Sydney flying Qantas. The queues were extremely long and the machines to check in my luggage were either busy or out of order. My exhaustion must have been visible as a roving Qantas attendant offered to help. On discovering my flight was delayed an hour and a half she phoned through to put me on an earlier flight and changed the seat so I would have easy access.

Traveller Letters: Qantas ground crew helped me skip the queue

My exhaustion must have been visible as a roving Qantas attendant offered to help.

www.traveller.com.au

 

[Quickstatus]

Where is the evidence that we have some epidemic of people thinking they've arrived within seconds of T-30, abusing the previous system?

No one is saying abusing the system or there is an epidemic. Again it is about expectation of a service disallowed after T-30. I would say that the vast majority of passengers are T>-30. For the ones that find themselves less than T-30, some will try the “but it was only a few seconds” or “they checked me in before when T-29.
So it is a small minority but often the loudest.

missed the changes that occurred in 2020

And here is where I agree. A self described full service airline which does not have a service desk at an airport cannot be by any definition full service.

 

[bussyboy]

Interesting direction in comments since I posted this the other day! I really just wondered what other people's experiences had been like in similar situations.

• I totally take responsibility for being late to my flight - got caught up with work before my holiday and made every effort I could in my cross-Sydney Uber to get to the airport ASAP
• There's a first time for everything - I've flown close to 100 times before, 6 sectors since April this year, so consider myself match-fit - I'd usually be at the airport well ahead and enjoying a lounge, but I had to work the morning before the flight on this occasion
• I was vaguely aware cut off for check in was 30 minutes before flight, but doesn't everyone check in online the day before now?
• I'd no idea about how bag-drop was going to work with cut-off times - can't say I've noticed a T-30 cut-off but never been a consideration before
• Yes I had stand-alone travel insurance, pretty sure being late/incompetent isn't an insurable event
• My flights were reward redemptions, so rebooking the entire trip after a "no show" was going to be out of the question for my budget, with limited reward availability and the current exorbitant pricing!
• I also understood a "no show" on one sector would void the remaining sectors - a ridiculous expense.

To be honest, I expected to be given better guidance at the airport by the customer facing staff, but they just left me there stunned and unsure what to do next? I had all the ideas, the staff on the ground had none.

If the position was that I'd technically missed my flight - then just tell me so, that my tickets were now forfeited and if I wanted to travel I'd need to start a new booking all over again. I would have gone home and cancelled my holiday.

That said, I was there and able to make my original flight (I was straight through security screening) and would have considered a "no show" ruling to be a little unfair. I was happy to travel without my luggage or wait at MEL/PER for it to arrive later. Failing that, an alternate flight later on the same day would be a reasonable expectation I thought in this circumstance, and with additional costs as appropriate. If I rocked up to the airport after the gate was closed that would be different...

In the end, I acknowledge it turned out okay, and I was lucky to not be out of pocket for my misadventure - a reasonable cost I would have accepted, but losing multiple flights as a result would have been grossly unfair, and not in anyone's interest!

 

[levelnine]

To be honest, I expected to be given better guidance at the airport by the customer facing staff, but they just left me there stunned and unsure what to do next? I had all the ideas, the staff pon the ground had none.

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly the degradation in service that I have been talking about. Prior to the pandemic, the staff on the ground would have been able to help. Now the best they can do is give you a phone number for Suva.

 

[justinbrett]

You clearly have not been following what's happened at Qantas.

This is the new normal:

Traveller Letters: Qantas ground crew helped me skip the queue

My exhaustion must have been visible as a roving Qantas attendant offered to help.

www.traveller.com.au

You keep saying we're not talking about rebookings, but then go on to keep talking about rebookings.

And is something I've already said, I agree, is the problem here.

The baggage cut off deadlines are not the problem.

 

[bussyboy]

Interesting side notes.

Every other flight on my itinerary was late! (Fine for me - more lounge time!)

The MEL-PER flight sat at the gate for 30+ minutes waiting for cargo to be loaded before pushing back, with everyone boarded and strapped in for departure! Not even a pre-departure drink was offered to business passengers...

 

[RichardMEL]

It is hilarious that the QF apologists on this thread think there was some problem of people trying to check in past the deadline, presumably causing flights to be delayed, when on time performance is currently the worst it has ever been. If this new policy of complete inflexibility is supposed to be improving on time performance, it is having precisely the opposite effect LOL.

At the risk of being labeled a QF apologist (I've been called worse ) it's not about what the current OTP is.. and in fact to my way of thinking you kind of refute your own point in a way - because a late arriving pax can possibly make OTP of their flight worse - thus adding to overall OTP being in the toilet. Airlines aim for a good OTP which is why thy have these deadlines in place to ensure all the bags are at the gate ready to be loaded in a timely manner for the bag handlers to actually do the work.

Also linking a deadline for check in/bag drop to ongoing poor OTP is a bit of a stretch imo. The deadlines have been in place for quite some time before OTP went in the toilet, and that is affected by so many factors currently such as staffing shortages, issues with outsourced workforces(ie bag loaders) apparently not having the experience and skills in some cases AND not being enough of them to cover departures, specially at peak times. None of this is related to a check in deadline surely?

The check in deadline isn't MAKING OTP worse - how can it be? I don't really follow the logic as to how this could be "having precisely the opposite effect." - however expecting a deadline to be waived (and I do support common sense discretion here where it makes sense/is practical to apply) will possibly add to the problem.

And remember it's not ONLY about getting the bag to the plane (which will take time to navigate the bag system, being scanned and routed(hopefully correctly!) to the correct gate etc.. but it's also about the pax getting through security and to the gate. It might be great if the bag got to the plane at say T-20 and could be loaded, but what if the customer is stuck in a 15-20 minute security line? Not uncommon at MEL/SYD during peak times.

I would make these comments in relation to any airline. It's actually got nothing specific to do with QF. We know JQ has the same policy. VA and all the others do too. I'm not sure how it is being an "apologist" for supporting a reasonable deadline for check in/bag drop for any flight.

When you switch from an in-person agent who can assist you to the best of their ability to an offshore call centre that can't even comprehend the nature of your call, that is a degradation of service. I do understand it can be hard to face basic facts.

Absolutely. This is abysmal.

 

[Capricornus]

Except that IME the new QF doesn't have manned check in desks unless you force the issue, they refuse and direct you to a computer.

OP was travelling business, so business /premium check-in is always manned and at that time of the day usually no line. I am surprised OP didn’t go there.