VAG newbie
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2013
- Posts
- 839
I have received almost 100 of PM's requesting the best way to earn KF miles other than paying ATO. Since this is SQ forum, I guess I will post my view so we can think more laterally!
As we all know that Westpac altitude's earn rate was slashed by 1/2 as of yesterday, and they have closed KF platinum card for new applicants. Originally I have thought of converting to KF platinum card as well, but decided not to mainly because of the flexibility to transfer points to other programs.
But is KF the only currency that is worth while earning when paying ATO? What will be my post-Westpac strategy when it comes to paying ATO? I think I will use my other cards that will earn VA or QF points, CBA, NAB, WWEDR....etc. As VA points can be coverted to KF points soon, I guess I will just compare VA to KF and not mention anything about QF.
It’s almost unilateral comment that KF points are more valuable than velocity, and almost everyone’s opinion is that the ratio will be more velocity to KF. Some even predicted 3:1 ratio. However, my view is different. I don’t think velocity points are as useless as we think. I used to think the same way and have unilaterally collect KF points as much as I can. But recently I have changed my view. The main advantages of velocity over KF are:
1. Better availability, especially AUS-US flights.
2. No or much lower fuel surcharges, which may outweigh the difference in points.
Let’s take BNE to LAX in business class for example. Velocity requires 94000 points plus $103.70 in tax, (or 110000 with no tax! ie. real free flight!) compare to KF which requires 85000 points plus $733.16 in tax and surcharges! A whopping $629.46 difference for a saving of 9000 miles! That is about $0.07/mile!
For the same route, VA has availability almost everyday if you book well in advance, where as SQ is still wait listed most of the time on saver award, and it is a lot more convenient to fly VA directly rather than via SIN and NRT! Also with the new VA business class coming up, it is arguably better product than SQ’s regional business class which is configured at 2-2-2 and with angled lie-flat.
And for USA route, you can combine DL flights in the same award booking, which gives you more flexibility than KF, which you will need to fly SQ metal, that limits you to only a handful of US cities. (Forget using KF points to redeem Star Alliance to USA, they won’t allow back tracking. The only *A airline that won’t be back tracking is Air NZ, and we all know how generous they are in releasing award seats!)
Next, we can compare BNE to LHR. VA requires 120000 points. I’m not sure about the taxes as I can’t obtain that online, but given that BNE to AUH is only $84.50, I don’t think it will be much more than $100 (it will be on EY, and EY is well known for not collecting fuel surcharges. Please correct me if I am wrong). SQ will charge 80750 miles plus $495.16 in tax. So the difference in 39250 miles will cost you almost $400, which at the end, the differences is probably not that much. Again, EY new business class “Studio” is at least as good as SQ’s business class, and definitely better than their regional business class, which SQ serves all other Australian cities other than SYD/MEL. (Also you get free chauffeur service with EY/VA, which will save you some transport/parking costs)
The value of KF miles really comes down to the ability to redeem first class suites. Unfortunately for poor unfortunate souls like me that lives outside of Sydney and Melbourne, which makes about 15 million of us, we don’t have first class service with SQ! Which means unless we fly to SYD/MEL (with the added costs of connecting flights +/- accommodation, and the risk of missing the award flight if the connecting flight is delayed/cancelled), we can never enjoy the benefits of first class suites as SQ don’t allow mixed cabin online.
EY on the other hand, do look after people outside of SYD/MEL, and they will offer first class suites to BNE/PER on their new B787. So in this regard. VA is still more useful. Of course, some may argue the onboard service with EY is not as good as SQ. I guess that will be a first world problem.
But VA is not without it's own problem. Their coverage to Asia is terrible. Mainly because their partner that covers Asia is SQ, and redemption with SQ premium cabin using VA (and any other *A partner) outside of T-14 is zero, not to mention the rate is ridiculously high! Currently the destination you can go outside of T-14 is SIN with EY (which will disappear in Jun 2015), and a handful of destinations in Indonesia and Thailand that are serviced by 737! ie. no proper business class! Let's see what VA will come up with their new Asian destination. In the mean time, for Asian cities, stick to KF. (If you have altitude, consider CX or MH as the alternative. They are cheaper than SQ)
At the end of the day, if other major banks that can convert points to VA still earn full rates with ATO, we will earn VA points twice as much as KF. So while the redemption with VA might be 30-40% more than KF, because you earn 100% as much, it is definitely worth considering earning VA points with ATO. Of course that doesn't mean I've given up on KF. I still love it and I will continue to abuse my altitude card as much as possible for other spending.
These are just my thoughts. I posted in SQ forum instead of VA forum because we are KF all fans here, and many of us (including myself before) would simply ignore VA and focus on KF.
As we all know that Westpac altitude's earn rate was slashed by 1/2 as of yesterday, and they have closed KF platinum card for new applicants. Originally I have thought of converting to KF platinum card as well, but decided not to mainly because of the flexibility to transfer points to other programs.
But is KF the only currency that is worth while earning when paying ATO? What will be my post-Westpac strategy when it comes to paying ATO? I think I will use my other cards that will earn VA or QF points, CBA, NAB, WWEDR....etc. As VA points can be coverted to KF points soon, I guess I will just compare VA to KF and not mention anything about QF.
It’s almost unilateral comment that KF points are more valuable than velocity, and almost everyone’s opinion is that the ratio will be more velocity to KF. Some even predicted 3:1 ratio. However, my view is different. I don’t think velocity points are as useless as we think. I used to think the same way and have unilaterally collect KF points as much as I can. But recently I have changed my view. The main advantages of velocity over KF are:
1. Better availability, especially AUS-US flights.
2. No or much lower fuel surcharges, which may outweigh the difference in points.
Let’s take BNE to LAX in business class for example. Velocity requires 94000 points plus $103.70 in tax, (or 110000 with no tax! ie. real free flight!) compare to KF which requires 85000 points plus $733.16 in tax and surcharges! A whopping $629.46 difference for a saving of 9000 miles! That is about $0.07/mile!
For the same route, VA has availability almost everyday if you book well in advance, where as SQ is still wait listed most of the time on saver award, and it is a lot more convenient to fly VA directly rather than via SIN and NRT! Also with the new VA business class coming up, it is arguably better product than SQ’s regional business class which is configured at 2-2-2 and with angled lie-flat.
And for USA route, you can combine DL flights in the same award booking, which gives you more flexibility than KF, which you will need to fly SQ metal, that limits you to only a handful of US cities. (Forget using KF points to redeem Star Alliance to USA, they won’t allow back tracking. The only *A airline that won’t be back tracking is Air NZ, and we all know how generous they are in releasing award seats!)
Next, we can compare BNE to LHR. VA requires 120000 points. I’m not sure about the taxes as I can’t obtain that online, but given that BNE to AUH is only $84.50, I don’t think it will be much more than $100 (it will be on EY, and EY is well known for not collecting fuel surcharges. Please correct me if I am wrong). SQ will charge 80750 miles plus $495.16 in tax. So the difference in 39250 miles will cost you almost $400, which at the end, the differences is probably not that much. Again, EY new business class “Studio” is at least as good as SQ’s business class, and definitely better than their regional business class, which SQ serves all other Australian cities other than SYD/MEL. (Also you get free chauffeur service with EY/VA, which will save you some transport/parking costs)
The value of KF miles really comes down to the ability to redeem first class suites. Unfortunately for poor unfortunate souls like me that lives outside of Sydney and Melbourne, which makes about 15 million of us, we don’t have first class service with SQ! Which means unless we fly to SYD/MEL (with the added costs of connecting flights +/- accommodation, and the risk of missing the award flight if the connecting flight is delayed/cancelled), we can never enjoy the benefits of first class suites as SQ don’t allow mixed cabin online.
EY on the other hand, do look after people outside of SYD/MEL, and they will offer first class suites to BNE/PER on their new B787. So in this regard. VA is still more useful. Of course, some may argue the onboard service with EY is not as good as SQ. I guess that will be a first world problem.
But VA is not without it's own problem. Their coverage to Asia is terrible. Mainly because their partner that covers Asia is SQ, and redemption with SQ premium cabin using VA (and any other *A partner) outside of T-14 is zero, not to mention the rate is ridiculously high! Currently the destination you can go outside of T-14 is SIN with EY (which will disappear in Jun 2015), and a handful of destinations in Indonesia and Thailand that are serviced by 737! ie. no proper business class! Let's see what VA will come up with their new Asian destination. In the mean time, for Asian cities, stick to KF. (If you have altitude, consider CX or MH as the alternative. They are cheaper than SQ)
At the end of the day, if other major banks that can convert points to VA still earn full rates with ATO, we will earn VA points twice as much as KF. So while the redemption with VA might be 30-40% more than KF, because you earn 100% as much, it is definitely worth considering earning VA points with ATO. Of course that doesn't mean I've given up on KF. I still love it and I will continue to abuse my altitude card as much as possible for other spending.
These are just my thoughts. I posted in SQ forum instead of VA forum because we are KF all fans here, and many of us (including myself before) would simply ignore VA and focus on KF.