Jetstar warned by CAV

[Happy Dude]

From the Age online today....

Jetstar warned over trading practices - Travel - theage.com.au

The thing I find interesting, Mr Westaway, is that most of the things people are complaining about have nothing to do with the "flip side" of low airfares. The exception is costs involved with changing a ticket.

People are complaining about delays/cancellations, service, reluctance to resolve complaints, and these things have nothing to do with rigidly enforcing "f*ck you" terms and conditions (even if they clearly stated).

It's difficult to believe Mr Westaway's claim that J* is serious about these complaints, when nothing has changed in the year or so since being approached by CAV.

In J*'s defence, anyone complaining that an airline failed to inform them of travel/visa requirements really shouldn't be allowed to fly at all.

 

[simongr]

A couple of things - I am not sure why it is anyone's business other than the airlines how many complaints they have received. I have no issue with the information being available but I dont see why it is the role of the government to get involved in this sort of thing and put the company on notice about their practices - if people don't like it then they will vote with their wallets.

Re the refusal to board policy - if the company says 30 minutes then I don't see how anyone has grounds to complain if they are refused boarding - at what point is it ok to allow boarding? If JQ enforce it more than other airlines I would think that is their right and in fact I would commend JQ for doing it - people's slack attitude to the airlines "rules" actually impacts other travellers - a JQ flight leaving late because someone was 10 minutes late boarding could delay someone else's flights.

 

[Petch]

I dont see why it is the role of the government to get involved in this sort of thing and put the company on notice about their practices

I, for one, am glad to see the governments of Australia (particularly Victoria) taking an active role in fair trading. There is no way I want to live in a society where the only market adage is "buyer beware".

It is only unfortunate that the most powerful weapon these departments have to wield is "name and shame"!

 

[oz_mark]

A couple of things - I am not sure why it is anyone's business other than the airlines how many complaints they have received. I have no issue with the information being available but I dont see why it is the role of the government to get involved in this sort of thing and put the company on notice about their practices - if people don't like it then they will vote with their wallets.

I am glad we don't live in a society that you would have. The issue is about the imbalance of power in the relationship. At the end of the day, Jetstar has to abide by the law of the land, and it is the governments job to pull them into line when there is evidence that they are not. All companies have some complaints, however, where there is a trend, then then there is an issue that needs to be dealt with.

Re the refusal to board policy - if the company says 30 minutes then I don't see how anyone has grounds to complain if they are refused boarding - at what point is it ok to allow boarding? If JQ enforce it more than other airlines I would think that is their right and in fact I would commend JQ for doing it - people's slack attitude to the airlines "rules" actually impacts other travellers - a JQ flight leaving late because someone was 10 minutes late boarding could delay someone else's flights.

It is quite an imbalanced thing. Perhaps people should be entitled to compensation if JQ flights leave more than 30 minutes late.

 

[simongr]

I am glad we don't live in a society that you would have. The issue is about the imbalance of power in the relationship. At the end of the day, Jetstar has to abide by the law of the land, and it is the governments job to pull them into line when there is evidence that they are not. All companies have some complaints, however, where there is a trend, then then there is an issue that needs to be dealt with.

I agree that they should abide by the law - I am just not sure that that law includes timely response to complaints.

It is quite an imbalanced thing. Perhaps people should be entitled to compensation if JQ flights leave more than 30 minutes late.

Now here I agree - I have not been harhsly impacted by delays much but I do not see why the airlines escape this failure to deliver the agreed service.

I fully expect that once TT start and they start failing to deliver that it wont be headline news on that other TT - Today Tonight.

 

[Happy Dude]

A couple of things - I am not sure why it is anyone's business other than the airlines how many complaints they have received. I have no issue with the information being available but I dont see why it is the role of the government to get involved in this sort of thing and put the company on notice about their practices - if people don't like it then they will vote with their wallets.

You're not a used car salesman or running a dodgy restuarant, are you Simongr?

Of course the government has to get involved where a disproportionate number of complaints are received. The consumer has to have more protection than "Don't like it? Go elsewhere." Just because it is stated in terms and conditions, does not make it fair (or legal - J* have already got a kicking at a recent VCAT hearing). Hence, the Fair Trading Act.

As for their enforcement of the 30-minute rule: J*'s on-time performance is no better or worse than DJ, generally, so arguing that it results in better on-time performances is somewhat futile. It's quite reasonable to conclude that they're rigidly enforcing the 30-minute rule simply to extract money from travellers.

Mr Westaway is trying to put a spin that just isn't there ie blaming the ignorance of travellers for J*'s poor record. Quite galling. Even moreso because it's the cheap airfare that encourages the, um... "less savvy" to travel. Hand that feeds, Mr Westaway.

The only thing he's right about is J* bashing being a popular past time. But that's their own fault, they deserve it, and they set themselves up for it by treating people like cough. Are they so blind that they can't see that fixing the things people are complaining about will actually result in people complaining less and the CAV will find another target?

 

[simongr]

You're not a used car salesman or running a dodgy restuarant, are you Simongr?

Of course the government has to get involved where a disproportionate number of complaints are received. The consumer has to have more protection than "Don't like it? Go elsewhere." Just because it is stated in terms and conditions, does not make it fair (or legal - J* have already got a kicking at a recent VCAT hearing). Hence, the Fair Trading Act.

As for their enforcement of the 30-minute rule: J*'s on-time performance is no better or worse than DJ, generally, so arguing that it results in better on-time performances is somewhat futile. It's quite reasonable to conclude that they're rigidly enforcing the 30-minute rule simply to extract money from travellers.

Mr Westaway is trying to put a spin that just isn't there ie blaming the ignorance of travellers for J*'s poor record. Quite galling. Even moreso because it's the cheap airfare that encourages the, um... "less savvy" to travel. Hand that feeds, Mr Westaway.

The only thing he's right about is J* bashing being a popular past time. But that's their own fault, they deserve it, and they set themselves up for it by treating people like cough. Are they so blind that they can't see that fixing the things people are complaining about will actually result in people complaining less and the CAV will find another target?

In every business I have worked in or with we have been answerable to our customers and shareholders - perhaps my belief in the relationship between customer service and revenue makes me more inclined to let the market dictate the outcome - hence my desire not to be interfered with by government.

If JQ are doing something illegal then we should stick it to them - I completely agree with that - but a number of things that people are complaining about are not things where JQ are breaking the law but just being poor service providers. The analogy to a used car salesman is not appropriate either - it is not like all the complaints are about JQ selling a ticket to Bali and dropping people off in Newcastle. A lot of things are around JQ not responding to complaints quickly enough - that is nothing to do with the contract of carriage - that is a service that JQ provides - albeit poorly.

I don't care what JQ's motivation is for the enforcement of the 30 minute rule but in general (exlcuding people having card accidents/breakdowns on the way to the airport) I do not see why they should be penalised for people not bothering to get to the airport on time. What is the cut-off outside of the agree closure of CHeck in that JQ should allow? 10 mins if you were stuck in traffic, 20 mins if your kid needed to go to the bathroom on the way to the airport, 30 mins if your car wheel fell off.

When I see this sort of intervention I wonder how much this has cost the tax payer. In a time of scarce resources for governments I think personally there are better priorities.

I guess I am very much an advocate of voting with my wallet - if I get bad service that I dont think is acceptable I will not use that service again. I fully advocate people complaining but I get concerned about taxpayers money being spent on their complaints.

 

[Alanslegal]

I guess I am very much an advocate of voting with my wallet - if I get bad service that I dont think is acceptable I will not use that service again. I fully advocate people complaining but I get concerned about taxpayers money being spent on their complaints.

Not to be nitpicking here but I think alot of the complaints are from infrequently flying pax who are unaware of the conditions attatched to the cheaper type fares. Hence those types category of pax who fly very infrequently do not have the chance to "vote with their wallet" and cannot choose to fly with JQ or QF or whatever airline the following week......that's why those complainants make those complaints.

But for a pax to complain they were refused to check-in 15minutes before the flight, that complaint is unacceptable......

Complaints about J* not being able to refund on a non-refundable ticket is also unacceptable.....

 

[dajop]

Another way for JQ could have handled all the check in complaints is jiggle the check in times. Have a published check in time (eg 40 minutes) and have an internal policy that provides a little leeway (eg 30 minutes), and therefore be seen to showing a little leniency to customers just a few minutes late. I guess that comes with its own inherent difficulties, as where to draw the line.

The other thing, is it JQ that won't allow pooled baggage allowances (or am I getting mixed up with some European LCC's?). If it is, surely they could be a little flexible and allow a couple with say 25kg bag travel that way, rather than charge them for the extra 5kg or require them to have two bags (which means more handling).

 

[Mal]

I have a feeling that one of the consumer bodies will take Jetstar to task soon over their sales.

Jetstar has constant 'flash' sales where their IT infrastructure cannot cope with the sale. One could see from that that Jetstar knows that their infrastructure will melt down, yet still has these types of sales where they know punters will have issues with getting what is advertised.

Wonder if anyone will take them to task!

 

[moa999]

But Jetstar's latest sale.
Only 5,000 tix but with the wall-wall media probably had 50-100,000 people trying for the tickets.

No wonder the site broke - and it took 3hrs to sell what should have taken 10min.

You can't call them out - it was clearly advertised only 5,000 seats, limited dates etc, and everyone had equal access to get the tickets (albeit on a very slow site)

It was a pure publicity stunt - $150k in foregone ticket revenue for wall-wall media, although I wonder with the people who spent 3hrs trying unsuccessfully to get tix whether they did more harm than good amongst potentially loyal customers

 

[Happy Dude]

In every business I have worked in or with we have been answerable to our customers and shareholders

Buts that's the problem. J* doesn't answer. It's one of the things customers are complaining about.

The analogy to a used car salesman is not appropriate either

Why not? A car that doesn't work is still a car, isn't it? Clearly, J*'s product is sufficiently different from expectations and people are complaining. However, I was referring to your somewhat cavalier attitude to customer protection. That'd be the sort of attitude one would expect from someone who is trying to protect their own interests and who doesn't want the general public to know that plenty of people are complaining.

I don't care what JQ's motivation is for the enforcement of the 30 minute rule but in general (exlcuding people having card accidents/breakdowns on the way to the airport) I do not see why they should be penalised for people not bothering to get to the airport on time. What is the cut-off outside of the agree closure of CHeck in that JQ should allow? 10 mins if you were stuck in traffic, 20 mins if your kid needed to go to the bathroom on the way to the airport, 30 mins if your car wheel fell off.

How about they simply accommodate late arrivals where they can? Other airlines do it, so it is do-able.

When I see this sort of intervention I wonder how much this has cost the tax payer. In a time of scarce resources for governments I think personally there are better priorities.

Don't we have a $30 billion surplus at the moment? Money aside, departments like CAV and ACCC are a very important part of a civilised society. Like others here have noted, they provide balance and a framework where all are treated fairly.

I fully advocate people complaining but I get concerned about taxpayers money being spent on their complaints.

Keep that in mind if you need an industry ombudsman, OPI or the like.

Not to be nitpicking here but I think alot of the complaints are from infrequently flying pax who are unaware of the conditions attatched to the cheaper type fares.

You're probably right and people may be complaining because they feel gouged, but are the conditions fair?

However, I suspect that complaints regarding service, delays/cancellations, J* reluctance etc are most likely to come from a category well travelled and more aware of their rights.

 

[straitman]

The other thing, is it JQ that won't allow pooled baggage allowances (or am I getting mixed up with some European LCC's?). If it is, surely they could be a little flexible and allow a couple with say 25kg bag travel that way, rather than charge them for the extra 5kg or require them to have two bags (which means more handling).

Slightly OT.

We recently travelled SYD-CHC-SYD on JQ and I have to say that JQ were excellent. Admittedly we did checkin relatively early in SYD so we could use the F lounge and very early in CHC (seq 1 & 2) due connection times and we did have exit rows each way.

The staff were very friendly at checkin and on board and no body seemed to have any issues. For those who purchased food & drinks on board the service was good and the prices reasonable.

The only down side was boarding in SYD which was by bus in the pooring rain and the general poor condition of SYD airport.

 

[drron]

The problem I have with JQ is that often I cant avoid using them and their one sided conditions of carriage.For example do you realise you can be refused boarding if not wearing footwear.You can also be refused boarding without compensation if you have not presented your boarding pass to the gate by the time specified on the BP.Though I have yet to see anyone doing this.EG JQ790 0n monday 19/11 scheduled for departure at 6.45pm and the boarding pass said be at the gate by 6pm.I left the QC when I saw the inbound flight had landed-very good this time it was only 6.30pm.Yet by the conditions of carriage JQ could have denied me boarding.
Out of interest at Maroochydore they still have an old QF cabin baggage test unit by the gate and right alongside it is a JQ test unit.Although the dimensions for cabin baggage on QF and JQ are the same the JQ unit is noticeably smaller than the QF one.
Also for all those that complain about compensation issues or slow repayments it is right there in the conditions of carriage-"To the extent permitted by law Jetstar excludes all liability for any costs,expenses, losses or damage whatsoever that may arise in any way in connection with the carriage."
Cheap and nasty comes to mind.Unfortunately domestically many of us are just going to have to get used to it.
One point in my favour on my last 2 flights with JQ because of my observations I decided to wear a tie.Row 1 both times where I have never scored this before.

 

[International Lady]

Have had instances where boarding is delayed because there is a plane full of pax from a delayed inbound aircraft due to join that one. Now the pax on the late plane would be extremely peeved if GeoffStar took off without them and they had to overnight for the next o/s flight.

At the end of the day, you have made a contract with the airline, you've paid the money - they are obliged to get you there but whether it's on time is another story - unfortunately no room for compensation for delays - you can however change airlines next time you travel. Have a read of all the interesting fine print that comes with tickets. They can even bump you off the flight if they had to!

 

[pauly7]

One point in my favour on my last 2 flights with JQ because of my observations I decided to wear a tie.Row 1 both times where I have never scored this before.

Best post so far - I will give it a try!

I must be blessed when it comes to Jetstar, have never had any issues whatsoever. I'm not denying they exist but sometimes I think they may be the result of people not understanding what you are getting (i.e. not a QF who will do ANYTHING to help you if you are late/delayed etc).

I fly JQ quite often to Tas (Syd-Lst) as there is no other direct option since QF pulled the route and as a mentioned before no problem here. I don't want to ruffle anyone but I really think it is a 'you get what you pay for'

 

[dragonman]

I fly JQ quite often to Tas (Syd-Lst) as there is no other direct option since QF pulled the route and as a mentioned before no problem here. I don't want to ruffle anyone but I really think it is a 'you get what you pay for'

Agreed. My experience with them on Sydney coughet star class was entirely positive (kind of like Economy plus but earned business class points and status credits).

 

[dajop]

I think they may be the result of people not understanding what you are getting (i.e. not a QF who will do ANYTHING to help you if you are late/delayed etc).

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. But part of the problem may indeed be the fact that Jetstar makes the most of the fact that they are part of the Qantas group, which may mislead (the less well informed) people.