Jetstar cabin crew offload young pax from flight

[ozbeachbabe]

Jetstar cabin crew offloaded 4 young passengers from a DRW/BNE flight last Fri 09 April because not all of them were able to provide photo ID from their high school to verify there were all attending secondary schools.

This was despite the fact ground staff had checked them in and were satisfied all pax met the criteria. JQ673 was due to depart at 0130 but was delayed at least 45 minutes while cabin crew procrastinated whether to take them or not then after consulting their crew manuals, decided they'd refuse to uplift them.

The delay was caused not only by offloading the pax but searching for and locating their bags. As JQ A320's are 'containerised', this can take time if bags are loaded in the cans loaded first, as you have to offload the other ones first to get to them.

With JQ children can only travel without someone 15 or over if they are a) attending high school and b) if they can present photo ID from their school which would show their date of birth on it.

The problem was not helped by the grandmother of two of the kids leaving the airport prior to flight departing - as in pushback not takeoff, so was already half way back to her rural location when she received a call at 0200 ish to come back and retrieve her grandkids. To say she wasn't a happy camper would be an understatement!

Also not a great PR exercise for the airline particularly as one of the kids was in tears by this stage and had to wait around in the airport terminal for family to retrieve them. It does appear there is some blame to be levelled on both sides though.

There was some conjecture about whether all the kids were in high school as checkin apparently were told by the guardian they were but when kids were quizzed onboard by staff one said he wasn't. Adults should never put kids in the situation where they have to lie about their age or anything else.

Also the ages of the kids were between 12 and 14 but again when one of the kids was asked how old he was he replied "14 in August" which is 13 in my book. Again it just sounds like a parent/guardian has coached them into talking up their age. It didn't really matter whether it was 14 or 13 as the issue was no school ID for a couple of them.

JQ rebooked and paid for them to travel later that afternoon DRW/BNE on a Qantas flight. As pax were 12 and over they met QF's criteria of 'young passengers'. Only children aged 5 up to and including 11 must travel as unaccompanied minors when travelling with QF.

The JQ website lists the conditions of carriage for young pax as follows:

http://www.jetstar.com/au/en//popup/childrensupervision.aspx

Independent Traveller Requirement - Children​

The airline generally requires that passengers are able to travel independently. The airline does not have the systems, staff or facilities required to assume responsibility for assistance and supervision of passengers. Children requiring supervision will not be regarded as able to travel independently on the basis that they may cause a disruption or endanger themselves or others if travelling unaccompanied.​

As a guide for Domestic Australian and International flights to/from Australia operated by Jetstar (JQ), children who are not yet attending secondary school will be regarded as unable to travel independently and will not be eligible to travel unless they are accompanied by an appropriate Accompanying Passenger*. Jetstar may require proof that children are currently attending secondary school at check-in. Despite these guidelines, if a child is attending secondary school but their parent or guardian considers that the child is not sufficiently independent to travel unaccompanied using the service provided by Jetstar, they must notify Jetstar. Jetstar is not able to carry such passengers unaccompanied.​

*Accompanying Passenger means a paying passenger who, in our reasonable opinion, can travel independently and is able to and will provide the appropriate assistance, supervision, or both, as is required for the particular customer they are accompanying. As a guide, Jetstar generally will not consider a passenger to be an appropriate Accompanying Passenger for a child unless the passenger is at least 15 years old. Jetstar generally requires that passengers are able to travel independently. We do not have the systems, staff or facilities required to assume responsibility for assistance and supervision of passengers. Children requiring supervision will not be regarded as able to travel independently on the basis that they may cause a disruption or endanger themselves or others if travelling unaccompanied.​

For Intra-Asia flights operated by Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF), passengers below the age of 15 must be accompanied by a passenger who is 15 years of age or older, at the time of travel. The airline regrets that it is unable to accept carriage for unaccompanied minors.​

 

[ejb]

Thanks for the rundown before no news get it.

I see the headline now, CHILDREN REMOVED AND LEFT AT DARWIN AIRPORT OVERNIGHT.

When sending children you think a guardian would wait for the plane to depart.

ejb

 

[anat0l]

Well the media would have a field day on this one.

It does beg to reason why they were not carrying IDs in the first place. What if something happened to them and their identities had to be checked in an emergency? You mean to say they had no identifying information?

Had they some contact details I guess one idea would be to contact the guardian (noted in perhaps their mobile phones) to verify their ages. Then again, even better would have been to check their identities at check-in like all proper check-in agents should! (Unless they checked in using self-service check-in machines; I do not know if JQ has these yet, but it is easy to bypass many "human" checks by using these machines and/or OLCI).

 

[Harry G]

There was some conjecture about whether all the kids were in high school as checkin apparently were told by the guardian they were but when kids were quizzed onboard by staff one said he wasn't. Adults should never put kids in the situation where they have to lie about their age or anything else.

this paragraph probably best sums up......
how often at check in do we "hear" parents lie about the kids ages to save a dollar....

crew absolutely did the right thing but as usual, will end up pr disaster for JQ....
woe the poor traveller......

pax do take for granted the responsibility crew/airline have to take for kids unaccompanied........

an

 

[markis10]

One wonders what sort of ID a 12-14 year old may carry on their person each day, school id would be the last thing on many peoples minds during school holidays.

 

[Harry G]

Well the media would have a field day on this one.

It does beg to reason why they were not carrying IDs in the first place. What if something happened to them and their identities had to be checked in an emergency? You mean to say they had no identifying information?

Had they some contact details I guess one idea would be to contact the guardian (noted in perhaps their mobile phones) to verify their ages. Then again, even better would have been to check their identities at check-in like all proper check-in agents should! (Unless they checked in using self-service check-in machines; I do not know if JQ has these yet, but it is easy to bypass many "human" checks by using these machines and/or OLCI).

a very interesting point here...........

self serve check in........
JQ is heading down the path of near 100% self check in..........
pax can agree to what they like when typing into a screen because no human intervention until pax goes thru boarding gate.
will JQ crew take a guess on age when a young pax passes thru....
this could be left to certain abuse as JQ is aimed at the younger and leisure traveller and with their hot turnarounds, will certainly put a lot more pressure/responsibility on cabin crew perhaps?
with all this whizz bang technology, the airlines are really their own worst enemies!!
but it is not to say PAX will test it!!

 

[ejb]

One wonders what sort of ID a 12-14 year old may carry on their person each day, school id would be the last thing on many peoples minds during school holidays.

That would be a parent/guardian issue. It is plainly obvious for anyone these days that if you are flying have ID.

The extra work for crew is obvious for UM's so I guess they like to dot the i's and cross the t's in these cases.

I say well done to the crew for following rules, but duck when the s&^t hits the fan.

ejb

 

[anat0l]

One wonders what sort of ID a 12-14 year old may carry on their person each day, school id would be the last thing on many peoples minds during school holidays.

On most public transport, school age children need to show IDs to get concession fares.

I know it's not popular any more, but there are still places (e.g. cinemas) where student prices apply, but these only on presentation of student card.

Of course, these days the ol' "common sense" defence of, "Sure I don't have an ID, but do you think I look like adult age to you?", seems to work. Hence perhaps even more a lack of IDs.

Bottom line is though if you are going through human contact you are going to be checked one way or another.

 

[samh004]

One wonders what sort of ID a 12-14 year old may carry on their person each day, school id would be the last thing on many peoples minds during school holidays.

I don’t know if you have teenagers, but school ID’s gain them cheap tickets to the movies and concession prices on public transport. Even if you look 10, they’re going to ask for ID, they always do.

That being said, kids at that age are a bit forgetful sometimes, so it’s understandable they didn’t have ID on them.

As for how JQ acted, I guess the cabin crew were in the right, but this just highlights the problems at check-in, I’ve never been asked for ID to check-in and it’s just getting stupid now. The staff at check-in need a wake up call like this.

Props to JQ for rebooking, and useful it was on QF too, would have been a much nicer flight.

 

[markis10]

I don’t know if you have teenagers, but school ID’s gain them cheap tickets to the movies and concession prices on public transport. Even if you look 10, they’re going to ask for ID, they always do.

I have a 10 year old who does not use public transport, hence the question! It just struck me that ID may not be as common as most assume, these days a lot of child pricing switches off at that age or even younger as discussed on the lack of child airfares discounts thread today, and a lot of kids dont use public transport for school, so to demand ID like JQ do without making it clear in the actual booking is a bit over the top.

While I cannot imagine sending our 10 year old on a plane by themselves, we are a blended family and that possibility may raise itself soon if the father moves, if that happens I will gladly be paying QF fares and UM them!

Seat Guru has good info on the various airlines policies for such travelers, must admit I had not noticed it until this thread popped up!

 

[under the radar]

...unfortunately we live in a litigious society. if something had of gone 'wrong' during the flight, the so called 'guardian' of these kids would be the first to lay blame on jetstar for letting them on the aircraft in the first place!! sadly nowadays no one wants to take resposibility for their own actions! ive experienced may 'white lies' over the years by people who want to get what they want... the cabin crew were just doing their job and covering all bases and ultimately saving their jobs as a breach of these age requirements IS taken seriously by management...

 

[djfuzz]

I'm with you markis10 - as a kid who was either driven or walked to school, I never had any need for a concession card until I went to uni, and our school never issued any student IDs. The closest thing I had was a laminated library card, which merely had my name and a barcode, and of course my QFF NB card.

I don't fault the cabin crew if they followed procedure, but I must say I'm a little confused by the circumstances on the ground. It seems like Jetstar's policy needs to be rewritten so that ozbeachbabe's emphasised may becomes will.

The ambiguity in Jetstar's policy put the passengers in an untenable position, with contrary, inconsistent procedures being applied to them. Really, it should be the ground crew's job to ensure that the kids weren't allowed to be checked in in the first place. Surely it's not unreasonable for unaccompanied minors (by that, I mean under 16 or 15 as lawfully appropriate, not as per Jetstar's arbitrary policy) trying to check in online to be pinged to have to check in with ground crew at the airport. If they were nevertheless allowed to get on board, then despite the cabin crew's subsequent actions, Jetstar is at fault for having a policy in place that allowed them through in the first place, and completely deserve any PR drubbing they get for it.

School issued ID cards, particularly from private schools, aren't issued by the state so I can't see how they should be held up as any sort of proof of age - they certainly aren't when it comes to the sale of alcohol or being provided with concessions on public transport. And they can very easily be faked. If Jetstar is serious about allowing unaccompanied minors to travel, then they really should be doing a better job at looking after them and verifying their circumstances at check in - this may even come down to the production of a passport, or other reliable ID, rather than 'secondary school' ID which, if available at all, is far from reliable.

I'd be concerned if my (hypothetical) 12/13 year old brandished a secondary school ID and was permitted to travel - though, on reflection, were I back in my own shoes as a kid, I'd think all my Christmases had come at once.

[I did once book a sly QFF award as a 15 year old - that wouldn't be kosher these days, but never got around to testing it thanks to my parents swooping in before I could do so. But it did kick start a long and crazy FF fetish. ]

 

[Harry G]

...unfortunately we live in a litigious society. if something had of gone 'wrong' during the flight, the so called 'guardian' of these kids would be the first to lay blame on jetstar for letting them on the aircraft in the first place!! sadly nowadays no one wants to take resposibility for their own actions! ive experienced may 'white lies' over the years by people who want to get what they want... the cabin crew were just doing their job and covering all bases and ultimately saving their jobs as a breach of these age requirements IS taken seriously by management...

litigious and media savvy I would call it.....
the wheel chair affair
the facebook contact affair
the breast feeding mother affair

give them a little publicity, a years free travel and they forget about it

absolutely right of ther airline...........
sit down you do gooders and suck it up!
there ARE rules and regulations and if you kids does not have ID - go and get it!
and..........
do yourself a favour........
read the fine print!

 

[anat0l]

I don't see too many people trying to fake school IDs except for identity theft, which could apply to anyone. Unless there's some new crimes I'm unaware of since my school days of ol' (not extremely long ago!)

In primary school I'll admit we had no IDs issued to us, and I'll be a wee bit surprised if they are issued now. But from high school (age 13) I had an ID an always carried it with me in my wallet.

Any ID is inherently 'weak' because unless an airline is prepared to phone the relevant people to verify it, with the exception of possibly an FFP member card and passport, it has to be taken at face value, perhaps with a small number of verification and consistency checks.

In any case, this still doesn't address the question of if your child was incapacitated and needed emergency assistance, how would anyone be able to identify them? The closest would be an ICE number on their mobiles, and even then.

No idea why JQ's policy says 'may' instead of 'will', unless that is only put there as an 'escape' for some exceptional basis, of which I have no idea what such an example could possibly be. But reading the 'may' implies that there is some chance that it will happen (i.e. there is not 'no chance' it will happen), so why would you take that chance? (Just as if you know IDs may be checked before you enter a club, why would you risk trying to enter without an ID, even if you look over 18?)

There's fault on both sides here but to be fair whilst ozbeachbabe's account is pretty detailed, it doesn't describe the blow-by-blow interactions that happened and thus how we arrived at this problem in the first place.

 

[samh004]

the cabin crew were just doing their job and covering all bases and ultimately saving their jobs as a breach of these age requirements IS taken seriously by management...

So it’s taken seriously for cabin crew, but not for check-in staff?

 

[markis10]

So it’s taken seriously for cabin crew, but not for check-in staff?

Different employers?

 

[straitman]

Different employers?

But that is surely JQ's problem still and not the passengers problem.

 

[markis10]

But that is surely JQ's problem still and not the passengers problem.

I believe it is JQs problem but also explains the inconsistencies in the reported incident!

 

[chrisb]

When sending children you think a guardian would wait for the plane to depart.

Well, how far do you take this? If you see them pass through the gate and walk to the aircraft, that's probably enough. You don't expect them to return after that!

I'm probably biased though - I was travelling as an UM internationally with connecting flights since a young age.

 

[medhead]

I think is abundantly clear that the jetstar crew have totally failed to follow the published policy of jetstar. They have overstep the mark. I also find bits of this to be possibly misleading.

For example this claim that a child saying they are 14 in august is an indication that the child was coached to talk up there age. The fact is that whether the child is 13 or 14 in august is irrelevant, as both 13 and 14 are of the secondary school age. Instead I suggest it is just the normal nature of a child to talk up it's age. I certainly did it at that age and most of my friends did as well.

Jetstar cabin crew offloaded 4 young passengers from a DRW/BNE flight last Fri 09 April because not all of them were able to provide photo ID from their high school to verify there were all attending secondary schools.

This was despite the fact ground staff had checked them in and were satisfied all pax met the criteria. JQ673 was due to depart at 0130 but was delayed at least 45 minutes while cabin crew procrastinated whether to take them or not then after consulting their crew manuals, decided they'd refuse to uplift them.

The delay was caused not only by offloading the pax but searching for and locating their bags. As JQ A320's are 'containerised', this can take time if bags are loaded in the cans loaded first, as you have to offload the other ones first to get to them.

With JQ children can only travel without someone 15 or over if they are a) attending high school and b) if they can present photo ID from their school which would show their date of birth on it.

This criteria is completely wrong. It doesn't match the Jetstar policy quoted. the published jetstar policy is that the child is able to travel independantly.
A rule of thumb ("A Guide") test given is that the child is attending secondary school. But the onus is placed back on the parent to determine if the child is able to travel independantly, because the parent is required to declare if a secondary school age child is not capable of independant travel. The real requirement is that the child doesn't require supervision or assistance. So no Jetstar does not require them to secondary students as claimed at point (a).

In relation to ID there is no requirement stated that school ID must be available or carried. There are plenty of other ways to prove DOB and schooling status. But in any case the Jetstar policy says schooling status may be checked. It does not say it will be checked, it does not say that it has to be school ID and it does not say anything about showing the ID on board the aircraft.

Independent Traveller Requirement - Children​

The airline generally requires that passengers are able to travel independently. The airline does not have the systems, staff or facilities required to assume responsibility for assistance and supervision of passengers. Children requiring supervision will not be regarded as able to travel independently on the basis that they may cause a disruption or endanger themselves or others if travelling unaccompanied.​

As a guide for Domestic Australian and International flights to/from Australia operated by Jetstar (JQ), children who are not yet attending secondary school will be regarded as unable to travel independently and will not be eligible to travel unless they are accompanied by an appropriate Accompanying Passenger*. Jetstar may require proof that children are currently attending secondary school at check-in. Despite these guidelines, if a child is attending secondary school but their parent or guardian considers that the child is not sufficiently independent to travel unaccompanied using the service provided by Jetstar, they must notify Jetstar. Jetstar is not able to carry such passengers unaccompanied.​

*Accompanying Passenger means a paying passenger who, in our reasonable opinion, can travel independently and is able to and will provide the appropriate assistance, supervision, or both, as is required for the particular customer they are accompanying. As a guide, Jetstar generally will not consider a passenger to be an appropriate Accompanying Passenger for a child unless the passenger is at least 15 years old. Jetstar generally requires that passengers are able to travel independently. We do not have the systems, staff or facilities required to assume responsibility for assistance and supervision of passengers. Children requiring supervision will not be regarded as able to travel independently on the basis that they may cause a disruption or endanger themselves or others if travelling unaccompanied.​

For Intra-Asia flights operated by Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF), passengers below the age of 15 must be accompanied by a passenger who is 15 years of age or older, at the time of travel. The airline regrets that it is unable to accept carriage for unaccompanied minors.​

Finally a couple facts about secondary school age. I started secondary school aged 12 in year eight, I was at school with people who didn't turn 13 until Feb of year 9. These days some secondary schools start in year 7, so that would be 11 year old children. All the children were over 12 years of age. Given this situation I totally fail to understand why there would be any need for the children to talk up their ages. So the suggestions of coaching to do such strike me as being a complete distraction. I can only ask why such imagined coaching is consider relevant to the story at hand?​

The problem was not helped by the grandmother of two of the kids leaving the airport prior to flight departing - as in pushback not takeoff, so was already half way back to her rural location when she received a call at 0200 ish to come back and retrieve her grandkids. To say she wasn't a happy camper would be an understatement!

Also not a great PR exercise for the airline particularly as one of the kids was in tears by this stage and had to wait around in the airport terminal for family to retrieve them. It does appear there is some blame to be levelled on both sides though.

There was some conjecture about whether all the kids were in high school as checkin apparently were told by the guardian they were but when kids were quizzed onboard by staff one said he wasn't. Adults should never put kids in the situation where they have to lie about their age or anything else.

Also the ages of the kids were between 12 and 14 but again when one of the kids was asked how old he was he replied "14 in August" which is 13 in my book. Again it just sounds like a parent/guardian has coached them into talking up their age. It didn't really matter whether it was 14 or 13 as the issue was no school ID for a couple of them.

JQ rebooked and paid for them to travel later that afternoon DRW/BNE on a Qantas flight. As pax were 12 and over they met QF's criteria of 'young passengers'. Only children aged 5 up to and including 11 must travel as unaccompanied minors when travelling with QF.

The JQ website lists the conditions of carriage for young pax as follows:

http://www.jetstar.com/au/en//popup/childrensupervision.aspx