Jetstar and Canberra CBR

[RooFlyer]

See this article re Jetstar flight HBA-SYD diverted to CBR. There has been additional reporting on tonight's local news.

Flight was held in holding close to SYD due to storms. Eventually fuel situation for the projected continued hold meant they had to divert to CBR, landing 10:30pm.

Jetstar has no services to Canberra (this was a surprise to me).

So far, so unremarkable. But then there were extended delays in getting pax off the plane because - and here the reasons become unclear - either CBR not ready for number of pax and/or lots of paperwork required because Jetstar not a customer of CBR airport.

Passengers eventually to hotels,after midnight.

Next day, plane went out empty and pax started a bus ride to Sydney at 11am.

It appears that there was some problem with Jetstar operating at Canberra airport which caused delays on arrival and an inability for the aircraft to depart with passengers.

I'm wondering why?

Why on earth would Jetstar not have a contingency arrangement with CBR, given it's the closest diversion to SYD (except NTL I guess) and the possibility of diversions from SYD due to airport closure/delays is a fact of daily life? Have Jetstar always assumed and accepted that a flight unable to land would divert to MEL or BNE?

Anyone? @AviatorInsight , I know its not your mob, but do you know how airline/airport agreements work? Do you have any 'SOPs' when faced with making a landing at an airport not usually serviced by your airline (other than 'try not to' )?

 

[kermatu]

CBR seems to have a poor history accommodating international diversions. But a domestic one seems really odd.

 

[Austman]

With no JQ staff at CBR (I thought that was common knowledge), I suppose it's not surprising that a diversion requiring accommodation of pax etc is not very well handled. There must be some sort of contingency arrangement in place?

A refuel stop only is probably better handled.

Would the SYD curfew have been a factor when deciding to eventually accommodate pax and arrange alternative transport?

 

[RooFlyer]

There must be some sort of contingency arrangement in place?

That was the point of the story - there appears to have been no contingency. The on-line story has been modified since I posted it, with some pics no longer there. One pic showed one of the flight deck crew at the front of the cabin addressing pax over the PA - lots of paperwork to be done before they could let the pax off the plane - well over an hour. And the plane had to take off without pax the next day. Maybe because they couldn't refuel??

Would the SYD curfew have been a factor when deciding to eventually accommodate pax and arrange alternative transport?

The stated reason was that after an already long hold, there wasn't enough fuel for the then projected further hold. Which leads me to think that the plane must have been 'caught short'. Given that CBR clearly isn't a JQ port, normal planning I assume would mean that they should have diverted to MEL or BNE beforehand.

 

[Austman]

And yet NTL is much closer to SYD than CBR and is an actual JQ served airport.

It is a bit odd - so I suspect there's more to the story than we know.

 

[Lynda2475]

Yep Newcastle would seem more logical choice than Canberra for Jetstar

 

[Must...Fly!]

It's not easy. Someone is more or less trying to coordinate everything required to get people off the plane from behind a desk in Melbourne, probably. Making a lot of phone calls...then the questions come about who pays, maybe if the ground handler that says they can do it has staff that need to be called in...or using their stairs on other aircraft...there are so many variables.

 

[Alyopsis]

If it's a ex Hobart flight it was probably orbitting in a holding pattern over Goulburn / Wingecarribee or thereabouts and Canberra would have been significantly closer than NTL.

Wasn't there an incident with a QF flight a year or so ago when CBR airport effectively blockaded an unexpected landing until the airport fees had been paid ???

 

[AviatorInsight]

It appears that there was some problem with Jetstar operating at Canberra airport which caused delays on arrival and an inability for the aircraft to depart with passengers.

I'm wondering why?

Why on earth would Jetstar not have a contingency arrangement with CBR, given it's the closest diversion to SYD (except NTL I guess) and the possibility of diversions from SYD due to airport closure/delays is a fact of daily life? Have Jetstar always assumed and accepted that a flight unable to land would divert to MEL or BNE?

Anyone? @AviatorInsight , I know its not your mob, but do you know how airline/airport agreements work? Do you have any 'SOPs' when faced with making a landing at an airport not usually serviced by your airline (other than 'try not to' )?

CBR is an interesting place even on scheduled RPT ops. I have no idea on the weather requirements that night. Was there holding fuel already needed? Talking to a friend who works for JQ, apparently the QF group have had major issues with unscheduled arrivals into CBR, especially AA. No specific JQ ground staff there however Aerocare close up at 2200L (arrival was at 2230L). There is a QF ground handling agent until 2300 (for an arriving aircraft) but not much would be happening that time of the night. Refueller most likely would have gone home, a quick look suggests the last departing flight is a 2000 QF flight before the 2355 SQ flight.

If they landed at 2230 then no matter how quick a gas'n'go was it wouldn't have them in SYD before curfew.

If we were to go to AVV for example then it would also be very hard for people not familiar with our procedures (how does the company generate load sheets/flight plans/does the agent know how to operate stairs/lifts for pax, do they even have stairs for the aircraft, etc) and that would take a long time to coordinate, so leaving pax on the plane is easier to manage as people tend to wander off in a terminal, so for all that, the preference is always to go to a company port.

People asking what about NTL? NTL has a curfew at 2200L so unless they declare an emergency there's a lot more paperwork involved and there would definitely have not been anyone there in attendance so quickly. Also NTL can't be used as a planned alternate even outside curfew hours.

 

[Austman]

Looking at flightaware.com it would seem the flight got quite close to SYD (100km or so) but not much "holding" was then done. Just one orbit before the diversion to CBR.

I think there's more we need to know.

Eg the flight was, even at take-off, running 36 minutes late...

 

[RooFlyer]

If we were to go to AVV for example then it would also be very hard for people not familiar with our procedures (how does the company generate load sheets/flight plans/does the agent know how to operate stairs/lifts for pax, do they even have stairs for the aircraft, etc) and that would take a long time to coordinate,

Thanks; that seems to have been what happened with JQ that night.

i wonder if the captain had to whip out his AMEX to pay to get the stairs over?

 

[Must...Fly!]

CBR is an interesting place even on scheduled RPT ops. I have no idea on the weather requirements that night. Was there holding fuel already needed? Talking to a friend who works for JQ, apparently the QF group have had major issues with unscheduled arrivals into CBR, especially AA. No specific JQ ground staff there however Aerocare close up at 2200L (arrival was at 2230L). There is a QF ground handling agent until 2300 (for an arriving aircraft) but not much would be happening that time of the night. Refueller most likely would have gone home, a quick look suggests the last departing flight is a 2000 QF flight before the 2355 SQ flight.

If they landed at 2230 then no matter how quick a gas'n'go was it wouldn't have them in SYD before curfew.

If we were to go to AVV for example then it would also be very hard for people not familiar with our procedures (how does the company generate load sheets/flight plans/does the agent know how to operate stairs/lifts for pax, do they even have stairs for the aircraft, etc) and that would take a long time to coordinate, so leaving pax on the plane is easier to manage as people tend to wander off in a terminal, so for all that, the preference is always to go to a company port.

Very well said. I think there is a perception among the public that, similar to when you fill your car, it doesn't matter where you go - it's the same process everywhere. But the specifics of airline ops are (as many here would know) so much different.

You can't just arrive at an unfamiliar/unused airport, make one call and have everything ready for you. Maybe sometimes it works, but not often. As said, the refuellers don't work all night in a lot of places. They're often on call - so someone at the fuel company will have to wake them up, so give them half an hour to get to the depot. Procedures - many airline are subtly different in the process of opening doors. Stairs are different for each type - and a ground handler may not typically deal with that type so may not have them, so someone has to find out who at the airport does, and use them.

If it's late, what about the terminal? Maybe it's closed up for the night, maybe not. Probably no shops open. Definitely no airline staff to answer questions. So yes, sometimes you are better off staying on board - at least you can get information, and probably some water. Sure it's not enjoyable but sometimes little other choice.

 

[Austman]

NTL has a curfew at 2200L so unless they declare an emergency there's a lot more paperwork involved and there would definitely have not been anyone there in attendance so quickly

I'm sure you are right, but a curfew for NTL is not mentioned here? :

Airport Curfews


Edit: I now see that the control tower is manned 08:00-22:00. Although it seems the airport stays open (RAAF)?

 

[AviatorInsight]

I'm sure you are right, but a curfew for NTL is not mentioned here? :

Airport Curfews


Edit: I now see that the control tower is manned 08:00-22:00.

My guess why it's not mentioned there is because it's not run by Airservices but by the military.

From the Airservices Publications website:

1. CIV OPS curfew applies outside ATS HRS and any CIV OPS during curfew must be approved by the RAAF.
   

 

[openseat]

It's becoming clearer that there needs to be some sort of consumer protection when comes to airlines like the EU.