Jetstar accused of exploiting cabin crew

[TonyHancock]

But James needs to be named not to avoid confusion with James, but to avoid confusion with Annika.

He who wishes to be James is a former employee and she who would like to be called Annika is a current employee. So there is a clear distinction. (What doesn't seem clear is if she is a Thai based employee.)

I assume these 2 made the main claims against JQ. Did the other 2 FAs make any claim against JQ or did they support what was claimed by James and Annika?

""I believe that if there was an emergency situation, crew would not be alert enough to respond accordingly," one flight attendant said."

""It is unsafe and I am concerned that it will only be when something unfortunate happens, that something will be done about this," another flight attendant said."

I think these are significant claims that are at the crux of the story, but neither of these people want to be Delilah or Benjamin. (I think if I was a woman I'd like to be called Delilah )

The story is making specific claims against JQ and it is probably required for them to identify exactly who is making the claims. These are real people with names, not just "sources" or "unnamed sources". There is a world of difference and it impacts on credibility of the story. Without a name they are open to the accusation that the journalist is just making stuff up, very easy to dismiss the story. With names they now specific accusations from a real person.

..but they haven't identified them. We have he who wishes to be James and Annika, as she wants to be called. I am certain that ABC will have their real identities and could produce them. As for credibility I'm not sure "But for one former Jetstar flight attendant who wishes to be called James, the flight is no trip to paradise." provides a huge amount.

As for sloppy and cliched. I can only suggest that you think it is cliched because all media do that, not just the ABC. In which case, we need to ask why all media do this type of thing. Because that is what is required when making serious accusations in public?

Yes I am afraid it is pretty much all media these days. Unfortunately expectations fall and we, the public, accept much lower standards these days. I always hold a little hope that the ABC can lift itself above the tabloid journalism that has become so accepted. (Hopefully that came across correctly and everyone realises I am a grumpy, self opinionated, middle aged man.)

Rereading this I realise I am being pedantic and trying to be logical. :shock: I bow to you in this regard, I have no chance of competing! You will wipe the floor with me! I love reading your posts, but I don't want to get in a long running posting spree so I'll accept I am wrong on all counts!

I'm way off where I want to be. In my somewhat disorganised brain I spent more time than I should have done wondering why someone wished to be called James. There are hundreds if not thousands of male names to pick. Nothing wrong with James at all, I just wondered why. Is it religious beliefs, does he have a penchant for Roman Catholic English monarchs, or maybe he is just a James Blunt fan. Perhaps he has a passion for the Manchester Indie Scene of the 1990's.

Sent from my 13" Macbook by he who wishes to be called Delilah. (You don't think that is a bit tarty do you? Does Talulah sound better?)

 

[Mrmaxwell]

From today's SMH;

Qantas intends to remain part owner of Tour East, the airline's spokesman, Justin Kelly, said. ''We're going to officially write to this company involved.'' It would put the company ''on notice'' as a final warning, he said. Qantas did not agree with the clause that set no limit to the crew's duty hours.

So QF are writing a letter to a company in which they own more than a third of? Can't they just pick up the phone?

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel...warning-on-workers-rights-20110728-1i2bp.html

 

[medhead]

He who wishes to be James is a former employee and she who would like to be called Annika is a current employee. So there is a clear distinction. (What doesn't seem clear is if she is a Thai based employee.)

I think that Annika is Thai because they used a translator

""I believe that if there was an emergency situation, crew would not be alert enough to respond accordingly," one flight attendant said."

""It is unsafe and I am concerned that it will only be when something unfortunate happens, that something will be done about this," another flight attendant said."

I think these are significant claims that are at the crux of the story, but neither of these people want to be Delilah or Benjamin. (I think if I was a woman I'd like to be called Delilah )

Aren't this simply statements that support the claims for James and Annika? Aren't James and Annika also making these same claims? Also maybe FA and another FA have refused to be identified

..but they haven't identified them. We have he who wishes to be James and Annika, as she wants to be called. I am certain that ABC will have their real identities and could produce them. As for credibility I'm not sure "But for one former Jetstar flight attendant who wishes to be called James, the flight is no trip to paradise." provides a huge amount.

They are identified in a general sense. The former FA who wants to be known as James. That is a specific person, just as you are Delilah.

Rereading this I realise I am being pedantic and trying to be logical. :shock: I bow to you in this regard, I have no chance of competing! You will wipe the floor with me! I love reading your posts, but I don't want to get in a long running posting spree so I'll accept I am wrong on all counts!

You're not wrong, good question. I just think you are missing the point that this type of thing is done for a valid reason and is actually the sign of good journalism.

I'm way off where I want to be. In my somewhat disorganised brain I spent more time than I should have done wondering why someone wished to be called James. There are hundreds if not thousands of male names to pick. Nothing wrong with James at all, I just wondered why. Is it religious beliefs, does he have a penchant for Roman Catholic English monarchs, or maybe he is just a James Blunt fan. Perhaps he has a passion for the Manchester Indie Scene of the 1990's.

Maybe he likes the King James Bible?

 

[TonyHancock]

I think that Annika is Thai because they used a translator

Now it becomes clear!! I read and reread the article and couldn't find anything that suggested a translator for Annika. At that point I had a "doh" moment and realised that there was a video clip.

I agree wholeheartedly with you having watched the video clip. I'd only read the article. :shock: Having seen the video and seen "James" and "Annika" talk from the shadows I understand why they have to have a name, and the other comments were just put up as quotes, so no need for names. As a piece of TV investigative journalism it was fine.

The article as a stand alone piece just didn't stack up for me. That was my problem. It just came across as sloppy.

Cheers

Delilah

I still want to know why he picked James though.

 

[mannej]

Medhead, with your experience in OH&S and Human Performance, what difference does changing time zones have on fatigue and fatigue management? I would have thought the SYD-DPS-SYD duty (provided the right rest between shifts), not be much different to any of the ULH flights and duty? What affect does crossing date lines etc have on the DFW-BNE or a SIN-EWR crew?
Shift work is not easy, the question should be does JQ provide training and resources on how to manage the effects of the different shifts on the body? Circadian rhythms are a messy thing to play with. I guess that there have been accidents and incidents where fatigue is clearly an issue. EK in Melbourne, Buffalo and Korean Air 801.
Forgive me for not reading the ABC article (net is shaped), but what does a general roster look like with JQ? If they are doing the run in question daily, I would be outraged, however what rest is provided in between shifts? There are questions that I do not have answered that will help me pass judgement on this one. Milehigh does have personal experience as a FA, but only with QF I am guessing.

I do believe that having Senator Xenophon reviewing things like this is a positive thing, so lets wait and see if anything more comes out of this.

FWIW, I did do the JQ37 to DPS in April, and was lucky enough to have Lauren ****son as CSM on the flight. She is the head of JQ Cabin Crew, perhaps I should have spoke to her about it, as she did seem happy enough to talk.

 

[Will]

Of course when I was a young fellow i worked 120 hours straight in an Orthopaedic ward.Over Easter.In the hospital that took those from the Mt.Panorama easter bike races.Then slept for 24 hours.
Which is why I became a Union Rep,led NSW RMOs on their first Industrial action and was President of the RMOs Assoc when we got the 40 hour week.
Which is why I did not get a job the next year and went to the country.

Many thanks from those of us who have come after you!

Sincerely.

 

[medhead]

Medhead, with your experience in OH&S and Human Performance, what difference does changing time zones have on fatigue and fatigue management? I would have thought the SYD-DPS-SYD duty (provided the right rest between shifts), not be much different to any of the ULH flights and duty? What affect does crossing date lines etc have on the DFW-BNE or a SIN-EWR crew?

I really don't know. It is a bit out of my area. I have heard that shift work takes something like 5 years off your life. But that probably isn't that relevant to the work in question. If I just wildly speculate JB747 has mentioned that jetlag gets to him. So there has to be some affect from cost timezone travel. I guess this type of thing could be minimised if you can just operate on your home timezone. So I simple turn around might be ok, for a shortish route, and with say a 12 to 24 hours break before turning around. But if you just do it all in one, you're still going to have worked 17 hours even if you can keep yourself in your home timezone, so to speak. It can't be good really.

Of course, from the story I'm not sure they do have a simple turn around. There was some talk of the cabin crew flying to Australia and then operating domestic flights before turning around. I just wonder about the how long they operate these australia domestic legs, e.g. is that just JQ35 SYD-MEL or something else. I do recall when I flew CNS-NRT on JQ the crew were from all over, Thai, Bali and such. So what did they fly BKK-SYD*-OOL-CNS-NRT and then back? Do they switch over to A320 flights?

* Just made that up, I don't really know the international JQ routes very well.

 

[gumpy]

I don't know about you guys but I get messed around by time zones but I guess it's because I need to get up for work during business hrs the next day. I'm not sure how i'd fare if I kept to my home timezone activities in a different time zone, does this stop lag?

 

[737]

I would have thought the SYD-DPS-SYD duty (provided the right rest between shifts), not be much different to any of the ULH flights and duty? What affect does crossing date lines etc have on the DFW-BNE or a SIN-EWR crew?

Many factors come into effect with this. 2 Sectors SYD-DPS-SYD flight is very different to a 1 sector ULH flight. The aircraft that operate the SYD-DPS-SYD flight do not have horizontal crew rest, therefore onboard rest is different. Crew are performing two ascents and two descents which have affect on the body. They are performing twice the amount of pre and post-flight duties, twice as many inflight services. However, on an ULH sector, the downtime in between the start and end of the flight is able to be broken up between crew who get to use horizontal crew rest (bunks). They have one ascent and one descent. Only performing their required safety duties once during the duty, and most likely only perform 2 actual full cabin services. A bit of a difference.

 

[Flashback]

Just to add to this, most weeks I do 5-6 day weeks with anywhere from 12-16 hours a day and that tires the heck out of me ; even with having a "rest day". I could see how they'd consider it tiring, regardless of timezone changes or not. I guess the question is how often does it occur and what sort of breaks do they have in between? If I have a 2 day break, I'm usually rested enough to go back and do another back breaker.