Is the "Fly Ahead" benefit removal actually being enforced?

[moa999]

it's a no brainer to offer this to your best customers as a 'perk' when it benefits you both. People don't buy flexi fares to fly 2 hours earlier, they buy them to change the dates completely.

while I agree with this generally (and the cost to making someone sit in a free bar for a few hours on a Friday afternoon)

people were actively gaming the system by just booking the (normally cheapest) last flight of the day and then just turning up when they wanted.

 

[MarkD]

while I agree with this generally (and the cost to making someone sit in a free bar for a few hours on a Friday afternoon)

people were actively gaming the system by just booking the (normally cheapest) last flight of the day and then just turning up when they wanted.

In all honesty we are all part of the game. We all manipulate the rules to suit our needs. We push the limits of whats allowed and whats not. Thats why 90% of us are on this site. To gain the most from our chosen program

 

[CPMaverick]

I find it hard to believe this gaming is widespread, or that there was a significant impact to VA because of it. It may be popular on forums like these, but most elites are business-related flyers and more schedule conscious than price conscious. So I doubt a huge amount of people take the risk of waiting around all day just to save $40-60. People come to a forum like this to understand the system and get the most out of it, so a much larger % of people in a forum like this game the system, but I don't think many do.

Even if they do, they are taking a risk for a small reward. I doubt it impacted VA's bottom line. And again, getting them on earlier flights may indeed have made that money back.

 

[Milefest]

How is it "gaming" if the benefit is being used exactly as intended? Gaming the system means that you're manipulating the system for a desired outcome that wasn't intended.

 

[MarkD]

How is it "gaming" if the benefit is being used exactly as intended? Gaming the system means that you're manipulating the system for a desired outcome that wasn't intended.

There have been many reports of this happening. I have read many times people just buying a cheapo fare on the last flight and showing up peak time expecting to fly. Its within the rules however its a gamble.

 

[grubbidok]

There have been many reports of this happening. I have read many times people just buying a cheapo fare on the last flight and showing up peak time expecting to fly. Its within the rules however its a gamble.

I usually always book the last flight, but mainly because it was quite common for project meetings and site visits to go well over time. It's much easier to get an earlier flight than try to blag onto one that you've missed!

I'm also barred from purchasing anything but Getaway due to BFOD policy (and the uni would have a conniption if I paid to book an additional earlier flight to come home). Since the change I've sat in the lounge for up to 4 hours. I've not minded as usually there is a ton of work to catch up on anyway, and laptop time in the lounge isn't that different from laptop time elsewhere, and even the earlier flight was unlikely to get me home in time to see my daughter before she sleeps. I think you should expect to go home on your booked flight and view anything else is a bonus.

That being said, the thing I find oddest about current policy isn't the lack of fairness (as I said, if you book the last flight that should be your baseline expectation), but the inflexibility. The change seems to have coincided with a broader removal of the ability for VA staff to make discretionary changes. VA is really becoming a "computer says no" airline, which is a shame as their flexible attitude and staff autonomy was a drawcard for many of us (compared with QF's inflexibility). I've seen near empty flights leave while I've been in the lounge, even when the last flight (mine) has been in danger of cancellation. I'm surprised that there appears to be no discretion at all (and on that note I wonder if it makes them at risk of higher accommodation costs etc from delays on that last flight that require cancellation due to curfew).

But the truth of the matter is that if they think I'm going to pay to get on an earlier flight they're joking (and if they think I'm going to cough up for an Elevate fare, their introduction of Getaway fares as a completely separate category has actually completely taken that option away from me as a BFOD employee - before I could at least pretend the more expensive flight was necessary as it was "a different time"). As a BIS WP who also gets Mrs G SG through BIS and then some I don't think my status is in danger, as work travel is increasing, not decreasing, so if that's their intention (to make me a "higher value" customer taking more profitable flights) it doesn't work either. I get the "people were gaming it" argument, but I wonder if they've thrown a tank of a solution at an ant of a problem. I guess we'll see how it works out for them, but I don't see a lot of net benefit from it.

On another note, I'm interested to see if what I did came up as "gaming" in their system analytics when modelling this change? I estimate I probably used the benefit half the time (so was probably considered a "heavy user"), however when I booked the last flight was rarely cheaper than the earlier alternatives (perhaps 1 in 20 times, and then probably only by ~$20), and in some instances I actually paid *more* for the last flight to ensure I wouldn't be caught out if the meetings ran late. It would be interested to see what their definition and cut-off of inappropriate use was.

TLDR: if you want to catch up for a bevvy, I'll be the bearded portly gent on the laptop! Looks like I'll have time to catch up now

 

[Falcs]

I usually always book the last flight, but mainly because it was quite common for project meetings and site visits to go well over time. It's much easier to get an earlier flight than try to blag onto one that you've missed!

If you have legitimate reasons to require flexibility because of work meetings that commonly go overtime, then frankly they should be shelling out for (more) flexible tickets - isn't that the point of them?

 

[grubbidok]

If you have legitimate reasons to require flexibility because of work meetings that commonly go overtime, then frankly they should be shelling out for (more) flexible tickets - isn't that the point of them?

You try telling that to employers who mandate BFOD Most don't find the difference in price between non-flexi and flexi acceptable, and don't allow it (and frankly, given flexi is exorbitantly overpriced, you can't really blame them).

 

[Falcs]

You try telling that to employers who mandate BFOD Most don't find the difference in price between non-flexi and flexi acceptable, and don't allow it (and frankly, given flexi is exorbitantly overpriced, you can't really blame them).

My employer mandates BFOD (within a specified window), but I don't have those sorts of scheduling issues - maybe it's just me but I don't think it's really fair of an employer to expect you to build in a 4 hour contingency because they don't want to pay for a more flexible ticket.

 

[grubbidok]

My employer mandates BFOD (within a specified window), but I don't have those sorts of scheduling issues - maybe it's just me but I don't think it's really fair of an employer to expect you to build in a 4 hour contingency because they don't want to pay for a more flexible ticket.

I work at a university, so it's not only BFOD but publicly accountable money (even money we bring in ourselves via consultancies or grants). Very strict restrictions on what is and isn't allowed because our accounts get regularly audited by government bodies, research funding agencies and accreditation agencies. They're pretty tight on restrictions (i.e. no alcohol at all, even if we are just having a glass of wine with dinner on the road): I remember once a colleague had to fly to London *for one day* including a meeting 2hrs after landing and they finally relented to allowing him to use Y+ instead of Y. I did a few trips last year where I had to do 36hrs each way in Y for a 2-3 day trip. As is the case in most places, "the executive" have better travel arrangements that are allowed because that's "strategic" (but I'm not there).

I also had a colleague that met with HR with a "medically diagnosed" certificate that he had clinical claustrophobia, so now he is allowed to travel Y+ (and occassionally J) on long-haul due to his "condition" (it's legitimate, but mild, and even he acknowledges his use of the certificate was strategic!).

That being said, I don't particularly mind spending the 4hrs, as academia is pretty flexible and "task-based" (cue the joke about academia being flexible, "you can work any 80hrs you want!"), and a fair bit can also be done out of the office, so if I work 4hrs in the lounge and don't have "booked" face-to-face meetings or teaching the next day or two I'll use it in lieu to have a late morning start or early morning finish to spend a little bit of time with Little Miss 3 or Mrs G. There's a bit of an unofficial policy here that if we work in the lounge "it counts".

That's a big reason why I can't really see the changes affecting my bookings.

 

[MarkD]

I think the biggest issue is that there was a benefit. Virgn has removed said benefit on cheapest fare. What vitgin have than done is really on the nose, they have raised the flexible fare to a level that is disgustingly high for A LCC with a personality disorder. To be quite honest, jetstar have their new business corporate accounts which have the option to pay ansmall amount for flexibility and inhave indeed used that in prefer nce to be for a d into ripoff rate fares by virgin. That being said, they can change the rules all they like, if the customer doesnt like it, they have the option to change tyeir carrier of choice, or do what i do - just book each individual trip to suit requirements at the best available
Fare.

 

[ozstamps]

In a lot of cases the LAST flight is not the cheapest. First fallacy that is being quoted as Holy Writ above pretty often.

FIRST flight of day mostly yes, but not always the LAST one.

I fly to ADL a lot and SYD-ADL has only a few direct flights a day. Early afternoon is often lower cost than last flight as biz guys have meetings and fly home after them.

2 weeks back we were booked on the LAST Monday flight - about 6pm.

As our work was done I'd have PREFERRED to have got onto the 2.30pm or whatever it was, but due to this silly rule did not bother asking or getting there early.

Get to airport about 4.30pm to be advised the LAST flight was delayed for 2 hours due to SYD storms. GREAT.

Asked if we might possibly re-route and agent was happy to look. Getting to BNE at 9pm meant we missed their last flight to SYD. Same with CBR. And the only MEL flight that would get us there before last Sydney flight had just closed at gate in ADL.

Arrived near midnight in Sydney.

2.30pm flight was lightly booked, as I asked.

Yes it was a benefit for Plats and Gold.

As I typed at the time, if Virgin were smart, they'd have removed the Bennie for Golds if they were concerned too many flyers were using it.

There is precious little difference between Gold and Plat, and like Row #3 this would be yet another reason for folks to spend money with Virgin and get to Platinum.

It is called carrot and stick, and ALL Elite Plans globally use that concept - except Virgin now it seems, by and large.

Fly a lot and get a few crumbs as Bennies.

Virgin offer near zero crumbs now, and that is not wise.

 

[bigd]

Sorry I am not sure if this is a stupid question. But if we have booked in the saver fare class before the new getaway fares came in can we still use fly ahead as a WP?

 

[ap_spd]

It is being enforced, was denied fly ahead on Friday. But the lounge angel did give me details on what Fare code to avoid, now if only it was this easy to convince the corporate travel desk..

 

[Happy Dude]

It is being enforced, was denied fly ahead on Friday. But the lounge angel did give me details on what Fare code to avoid, now if only it was this easy to convince the corporate travel desk..

I know how to avoid a fareclass but how do you avoid a fare code?

 

[Jack_OC]

If you have legitimate reasons to require flexibility because of work meetings that commonly go overtime, then frankly they should be shelling out for (more) flexible tickets - isn't that the point of them?

My employer mandates BFOD (within a specified window), but I don't have those sorts of scheduling issues - maybe it's just me but I don't think it's really fair of an employer to expect you to build in a 4 hour contingency because they don't want to pay for a more flexible ticket.

I have travelled extensively for 5 different employers over the years, and only one of them allowed flexi tickets to be booked, unless there was no other option. All of the others (including my current employer) expect people to allow sufficient leeway between the scheduled end of their day's work and the flight they book. And my current employer is not on the whole particularly restrictive about travel - for example I get to travel in J for anything above 6 hours flying time, and they never try to force people to travel with the real LCCs. However, paying more for flexibility is specifically against the rules. The fact is, it's no skin off their nose if staff all book flights 2+ hours later than strictly necessary, to allow time for work overrunning. And even if they have to pay for a new fare on the rare occasion that someone misses a flight, the cost of that is negligible compared to the cost of paying for flexibility all the time.

 

[Falcs]

I have travelled extensively for 5 different employers over the years, and only one of them allowed flexi tickets to be booked, unless there was no other option. All of the others (including my current employer) expect people to allow sufficient leeway between the scheduled end of their day's work and the flight they book. And my current employer is not on the whole particularly restrictive about travel - for example I get to travel in J for anything above 6 hours flying time, and they never try to force people to travel with the real LCCs. However, paying more for flexibility is specifically against the rules. The fact is, it's no skin off their nose if staff all book flights 2+ hours later than strictly necessary, to allow time for work overrunning. And even if they have to pay for a new fare on the rare occasion that someone misses a flight, the cost of that is negligible compared to the cost of paying for flexibility all the time.

Well I was referring to the previous poster who said he was booking the last flight of the day and generally leaving 4 hrs buffer because of work

And there are different levels of flexibility, in the case of VA for eg an elevate fare from Syd-Mel is under $200 which isn't too much more than a standard (non sale) getaway fare

 

[Jack_OC]

Well I was referring to the previous poster who said he was booking the last flight of the day and generally leaving 4 hrs buffer because of work

He said he always booked the last flight of the day, and has "sat in the lounge for up to 4 hours". That probably means booking a flight up to 3 hours later than the one he would have liked to be on (assuming he would normally build in roughly 1 hour between arrival at the airport and boarding). That's similar to the situation I am describing. Anyway, I was just responding to your comment that an employer should pay for flexibility in these circumstances. My point is simply that in my experience, many employers will not pay more for flexibility, and I don't think the previous poster's situation is unusual.

And there are different levels of flexibility, in the case of VA for eg an elevate fare from Syd-Mel is under $200 which isn't too much more than a standard (non sale) getaway fare

As far as I can tell, MEL-SYD Getaway fares start at $155 each way, with Elevate starting at $199. Also, I may be misreading this, but I thought the additional flexibility with Elevate is minimal? According to my reading, within 30 days of departure, you still have to pay a $50 change fee plus the fare difference. And the fare difference part could easily cost you another $100-200 on top of the change fee, and all of that is on top of the extra $44 you've paid up front. That's not an insignificant difference - especially not if you multiply this out over a substantial number of trips taken by staff within an organisation.

Anyway, the simple fact is, regardless of what the price difference is, fare classes such as Elevate and Freedom are completely off limits in a lot of companies, unless the cheapest fare class is unavailable. For me, VA have failed to understand that, and that's the root cause of them getting this so badly wrong.

 

[grubbidok]

He said he always booked the last flight of the day, and has "sat in the lounge for up to 4 hours". That probably means booking a flight up to 3 hours later than the one he would have liked to be on (assuming he would normally build in roughly 1 hour between arrival at the airport and boarding). That's similar to the situation I am describing. Anyway, I was just responding to your comment that an employer should pay for flexibility in these circumstances. My point is simply that in my experience, many employers will not pay more for flexibility, and I don't think the previous poster's situation is unusual.



As far as I can tell, MEL-SYD Getaway fares start at $155 each way, with Elevate starting at $199. Also, I may be misreading this, but I thought the additional flexibility with Elevate is minimal? According to my reading, within 30 days of departure, you still have to pay a $50 change fee plus the fare difference. And the fare difference part could easily cost you another $100-200 on top of the change fee, and all of that is on top of the extra $44 you've paid up front. That's not an insignificant difference - especially not if you multiply this out over a substantial number of trips taken by staff within an organisation.

Anyway, the simple fact is, regardless of what the price difference is, fare classes such as Elevate and Freedom are completely off limits in a lot of companies, unless the cheapest fare class is unavailable. For me, VA have failed to understand that, and that's the root cause of them getting this so badly wrong.

That were me! I should note that even with the fly ahead turning up 4hrs early was incredibly unusual, it was usually the second or third last flight instead of the last one. And a lot of the time I used the last flight as directed. I'd never thought of myself as one of the "gamers", but maybe Virgin did (??). I always booked a flight for around the time I thought would be realistic to get to the airport, with a little wiggle room just in case.

But you're dead on about the flexible tickets, I don't see the corporate demand others have suggested. I've been told by our TA that the uni is financially far better off overall just wearing the cost of a cancelled flight and its replacement every now and then than it is regularly booking flexi - even if things go wrong (that their insurance won't cover). Now that VA have gone and created a new "cheapest class", by our policy that is now what we are required to book.

 

[Milboo]

Didn't encounter an issue when I made a recent enquiry to fly ahead. Elected not to proceed as seating was not great.