Is it worth joining AA if you don't fly AA?

[lovetravellingoz]

Well... a little bit of time has passed...and I am still watching the AA scheme (with envy) but have not swapped from QFF as yet.

However since I have joined this site at round about the time I started this string...I have used this site to my advantage in:

*was alerted to get a free for life Citibank Card VISA Card to improve my VISA earn rate from 0.5 to 1.0. (I get free Westpac Cards and so theer is no fee saving for me)

This is worth say $40000 by 0.5 in extra points per year = 20,000 points

*Joined my wife and I both up for QANTAS Premium AMEX's to gain combined 35000 QFF points

*Obtained free Wizard Card so that my daughter was able to gain fee free transactions from ATM's to gain access to cash that I had avaialble to here by keeping the card in credit. As there was no fee she was able to only take out small amounts as required. Saved me save $50....and when we go to Bali this March will save us more $

*Alerted me to the $200 upgrade to Starclass Promo..which I used to upgradea family of 5 to Bali this March...which is good value as the $200 each scores more comfort, free food and drinks and movies...and we now earn points at business class earn.

So this site is working for me very well.



I have not yet moved to AA....as :

My next overseas trip has now become a trip to Bali for 5 as I gained some cheap tickets in the Jettar launch sale...5 seats return for $2000 (now $3000 as have upgraded going over to StarClass). I have always been an opportunistic leisure traveller making the most of deals when offered.

So no chance for a Challenge yet...but yes will consider AA if and when I plan a major overseas trip, that can make us of it...though the new Challenge rules may make this more difficult.


In the meantime with QFF:
*I gain cheap Corporate QFF Membership via my wife...which is also of benefit for some Jetsar Travel. effectively after tax this cost say $200 a year which even though we do not flya great deal is worth it for the extra comfort, drinks etc....and when we holiday...allows us to also take our 3 daughters in.

*Extra QFF points are gained for some corporate hotel stays that my wife and I do for work...but this is only say 14 nights per year...say 6000 points (staying at hotels which would not be able to get points ata worthwhile rate to AA...I think)

*Points for say 8 work domestic flights for me..and say 4 for my wife per year...booked discounted and so with AA may not earn at all......and then say 10 (2 return by family of 5) holiday domestic flights.

All the points from the family accounts can be pooled and used for long haul redemption flights. With AA I would have little opportunity to gain points in their accounts.

ie My current point burn strategy is to burn the points for an international holiday ( last 2 trips have been to Tahiland and to Cairo both times for a family of 5).


Now I could start saving my AMEX points now for eventual AA conversion, but at only say (if I convert to a Maximiser Card) $40000 = for 24450 AApoints (with little other ways for me to currently aquire AApoints) vs 60000 QFF AMEX points (when I eventaully swap to the Maximiser...though the current Q card does earn 2.25 on occassion) it would take a while to earn a redemption fora party of 5.

Whereas with wholly QF the 50/60000 adds to my 40000 Citibank VISA points with the extra flight and hotel points adding to the earn rate....not to mention extra ways of gaining QFF points..CC joining bonus, car hire etc.. and so would qualify in less than 3 years for a trip to say Thailand for a party of 5 (yes I know...slow compared to many of the Plats on this site....).Yes AA offersa good value redemption to NZ....but in the near tem I am not planning a holiday there.

In say the same "less than 3 year" period I could alternatively gain say 80 or 90000 AA points (with yes also some QFF points still being earned as well).


With the Qantas Club discounted corporate membership...my low status redemption gains us access to the Lounges....which for redemptions isa real boon..as invariably I find at least one leg has to go MEL- Syd before going overseas...and invariably it is a many houred wait in SYD...so the showers, food and drinks are most appreciated.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

So...the question for me now is....for 90000 (or thereabouts) AA points what could I do besides Aus and NZ redemtions?

I cannot find info on this (AA says to call..)...I think there was a table somewhere...but the one on AA that I can see is all to/from Nort America..

ie MEL- to Hong Kong, Thailand etc would be (econ & business)?

MEL- Europe ?

 

[Dave Noble]

So...the question for me now is....for 90000 (or thereabouts) AA points what could I do besides Aus and NZ redemtions?

I cannot find info on this (AA says to call..)...I think there was a table somewhere...but the one on AA that I can see is all to/from Nort America..

ie MEL- to Hong Kong, Thailand etc would be (econ & business)?

MEL- Europe ?

Australis to Hongkong is a South PAcific - Asia 2 award and costs 50k for economy, 70k for business and 90k for 1st class roundtrip

Australia to Europe in economy is 90,000 points. business class is 120,000 points, so you can currently get a free economy to Europe or if you want comfort can pay around $1000 and purchase the points for a business award if desired

The award tables are on the AA site

For AA only awards :
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For partner awards (zonal based):
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For Oneworld Awards ( mileage based )
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Dave

 

[NM]

Look on aa.com. Go to AAdvantage and Program Details. Then select All Airline Award Chart under the Awards section. This will take you to this chart that can be a little confusing until you manage to digest how it works.

So from the chart, and assuming starting in South Pacific (i.e. Australia or NZ), your 90,000 AAdvantage miles can be used thus (besides awards within Australia/NZ):

75,000 miles economy to North America
80,000 miles economy to Central America, South Americs Zone 1
90,000 miles economy to Europe
60,000 miles economy to Indian Sub-Continent and Middle East
90,000 miles business class to Indian Sub-Continent and Middle East
75,000 miles economy to Africa
60,000 miles economy to Asia Zone 1
90,000 miles business class to Asia Zone 1
50,000 miles economy to Asia Zone 2
70,000 miles Business Class to Asia Zone 2
90.000 miles First Class to Asia Zone 2

See the chart fo definitions of the various regional zones.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Ah...thank you both for that....

and yes that is the chart that I remembered that could not find.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

..and so for mt particular situation..

with a 3 yearish window to collect points.

With AA and what I could earn with them in flights/cc I could gain 2 return tickets to Thailand or Singapore..50K....or 5 with QFF (60K each to Singapore or 70K each to Thailand).

Now admitedely I would still have some QFF points with the AA route...but I could not get them redeemed together.

So for my family of 5...and I use redemptions for holidays...for the moment I will stick with QFF......but will keep AA in mind if and when I pay for a long haul.

However just in case :

*If I convert from Qantas Amex to an Amex Maximiser mid this year I will keep the points there.....so that I can switch points to either.

*have last year opened an AA account...and will pick up any free points on offer..so far have 1000.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

For partner awards (zonal based):
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Dave

Hi Dave...thanks for this again...I actually saw this in your Sticky and looked at the link the other day...however for some reason then all 3 links took me to the same page, which was just the Nort American AAtable.....but have just checked again...and it now works fine...

So just my luck!!! Apologies that you had to repost it...as you must think me lazy.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

AMEX say 40,000 x 1.25 x 0.61875 = 30,937 to AA vs 50,000 to QFF
(note no yearly card fee is paid)

I got my maths wrong...as the 0.61875 includesa 1.5 earn rate & a 25% bonus from SPG.

So take out the 1.5..as I double dipped...= 0.4125

AA points would be 20,625
vs 50,000 QFF

If I swapped to a 1.5 AMEX card..

AA points =24,750.
QFF = 60,000

So for my particular circumstances at present it makes more sense for me to put all my points into QFF

• AMEX (including the lucrative QFF joining bonuses of 35K so far this year...and I am hopeful that it will be 70K soon...)
• Citibank VISA
• flights- mainly Discount economy
• Hotels
• Miscellaneous (ie rare car hire etc..)

(note that with my CC I do not pay any CC yearly fees...and have not done so for many years.... have added Wizard to my stable for its free ATM access.)

Still that is the great thing about this site...it allows you to maximise the situation to achieve what is best for you....which is a lot better than if you just stumbled along blindly.


Meanwhile I will keep looking...and reading...I am not wedded to QFF and will move in an instant if someting better arises (or is pointed out to me!!!)

 

[drron]

I got my maths wrong...as the 0.61875 includesa 1.5 earn rate & a 25% bonus from SPG.

So take out the 1.5..as I double dipped...= 0.4125

AA points would be 20,625
vs 50,000 QFF

If I swapped to a 1.5 AMEX card..

AA points =24,750.
QFF = 60,000

So for my particular circumstances at present it makes more sense for me to put all my points into QFF

• AMEX (including the lucrative QFF joining bonuses of 35K so far this year...and I am hopeful that it will be 70K soon...)
• Citibank VISA
• flights- mainly Discount economy
• Hotels
• Miscellaneous (ie rare car hire etc..)

(note that with my CC I do not pay any CC yearly fees...and have not done so for many years.... have added Wizard to my stable for its free ATM access.)

Still that is the great thing about this site...it allows you to maximise the situation to achieve what is best for you....which is a lot better than if you just stumbled along blindly.


Meanwhile I will keep looking...and reading...I am not wedded to QFF and will move in an instant if someting better arises (or is pointed out to me!!!)

I agree it is always what is best for for your own circumstances.In my case I do fly to the US regularly but it all comes out of my pocket so JAL has virtually always had the lowest cost J fares-and had flat seats across the Pacific well before QF.So I have been able to get AA points but never status before.This year with JAL joining Oneworld I should make explat by years end.
The majority of my credit card spending is on Diners-fee free and earning 1.5 points per dollar.I can transfer these directly to AA at 2 points = 1 AA mile.So my earn rate is 0.75 miles per dollar or 0.975 per $US spend.If you belong to a professional organisation it is well worth seeing if they have a deal with Diners.For when I cant use Diners I have a Visa and these points go to QF
In 2006 I redeemed 2 DONE4s on QF and 2 on AA.The QF awards cost 445000 points-bookeed in May 2005 and I had to take a WT+ on BA SYD-BKK plus economy across the US and $1090 in fuel fines.The AA awards cost 300000 points-Jan 2006 booked,$350 in fines,A class across US and an upgrade to F NRT-LAX.The QF awards would now cost me 565000 points-I am prepared to pay the 2500 to try and make sure I get close to what I want.
With my travel plans this year I would earn about 1300 status credits if with QF so fall just short of platinum but as I said get to explat on AA.Also I was wise enough to buy life membership of the Qantas club many years ago for just a little more than an annual membership costs now so lounge access has never been a great problem.

 

[Keith009]

Struggling with the same dilemma here. I could see myself flying AA though, now that I've set my sights on exploring the US for the next few years to come, and DONE4s.

I'm not a stranger to AAdvantage, having built up a reasonable amount of miles back in 2005 to reach Plat. Then itchy fingers got me to check out *A in 2006 - reaching LH SEN despite flying mainly SQ (financially impossible to reach a decent SQ FF status unfortunately).

The experience of using a general *G status taught me that it might be best to be an elite FF member of the carrier I fly most often with rather than utilising general alliance-wide benefits - as can be exhibited by the things LH*Gs miss out on with SQ, from the inability to use the actual SKL in SIN, to zero inventory on the 77W (and soon A380) flights in First and Biz awards (unless ticketed before CRS updates and winning at the guessing game of whether one would get the new cabins...I digress...).

Having decided to check out oneworld again, my natural reaction was to stick with QF FF and reach WP eventually as I'd be flying QF most. But analysing the earn/burn of QF FF vs AAdvantage got me wondering whether the MUCH cheaper awards on AA and lack of fuel fines would offset the benefits, real or imagined, of being a QF WP on QF vs general ow emerald status. Sure I get Anytime Access with the QP MEL (aka best local pub in the northern suburbs) but I don't think I drive to the north very often to take advantage of this benefit. QF FF might get superior access to awards on QF but would an allegedly 'free' award that requires astronomically high levels of mileage and heavy fuel fines be worth it? WPs also get access to the BA Arrivals lounge on long haul QF/BA flights, but mighn't it be better to take a flight with sensible timing and check into a comfy hotel room asap?

As I'd be doing a few Star Class flights this year, I thought I might just get my QF FF account up to SG level and have some time to think about where I'd put my DONE4 (starting Jan 08) towards. At the moment, AAdvantage is looking more attractive by the day due to much superior earn/burn ratios and ACTUAL upgrade certs, but I do not want my experience as a non-SQ *G member repeated when I go the AA EXP route. The real deal in getting ow emerald is the access to F lounges and the amazing bonuses AA EXP attracts, but I'm also apprehensive that QF might do a BA or SQ and restrict their new F lounges (very nice I hear) to WPs or shut out non QF FFP members from redeeming awards on the A380. I also get some free (albeit miniscule) SCs from work travel on the MEL-CBR-MEL route. I also do not like the idea of not earning AA miles and points on BA USA-UK flights but I can get around that quite easily I suppose. OTOH I might come to enjoy flying on other ow carriers that AA EXP might work quite well after all.

Back to the drawing board..........

 

[jasonja3]

I have decided to stay with QF, although I recognise the better earn/burn rate with AAdvantage. For me, the single biggest benefit of being WP, is the ability of using the lounges at any time. Most of my travel, is to asia, and particulaly in HKG, I need to use the lounge when transiting to a ferry to the PRD, of flying on CZ to CAN.

I could achieve both AA plat and WP in a year, as I do about 6-10 trips per year SYD-BKK-HKG-BKK-SYD in J with BA and CX which gives me 360SC and about 25k in points each trip, but I hesitate spreading my points around, I would rather have them together as much as possible. Although there is something to be said for the more accounts with different airlines, the more availability there might be....maybe food for thought for me?!

Another reason is accumulated points to date and CC spending, I have a healthy AMEX points balance which I cannot get across to AA efficiently to compare well with QF. I also have used my points very well using VS and partner airlines which is a better burn rate than QF, which for me is a good compromise.

Although I do not fly QF very often internationally, I use them for domestic flights, so enjoy being that airlines top tier. I also believe there is some benefit of achieving LTG with the local carrier, so I am aiming for that, albiet a long slog!!

Anyway, just my reasoning for staying with QF, although I must admit, I do question it sometimes!!!

 

[simongr]

If you fly 6x SYD-BKK-HKG-BKK-SYD per year in J then you will just about make EXP on AA - which gives you lounge access (not at any time though I think). You could still channel points to your QF account and use those for upgrades etc?

 

[Dave Noble]

With some judicious trading, the value of < 2 years of eVIPS could be used to purchase lifetime Qantas Club ( not quite as useful as LTG , but pretty close ) .

The difference in value of the points earned each year with business travel is astonishing. Also, when travelling with CX, with QF there is no status bonus awarded, however with AA there is still the 100% bonus

Dave

 

[jasonja3]

The difference in value of the points earned each year with business travel is astonishing. Also, when travelling with CX, with QF there is no status bonus awarded, however with AA there is still the 100% bonus

Dave

As I understand it, the only difference in points earned (SYD-BKK-HKG-BKK-SYD)will be the CX flights between BKK and HKG, so for me crediting to AA, I would earn about 2000 more points than I am currently crediting to QF, albeit with a better burn rate than QF.

 

[Dave Noble]

As I understand it, the only difference in points earned (SYD-BKK-HKG-BKK-SYD)will be the CX flights between BKK and HKG, so for me crediting to AA, I would earn about 2000 more points than I am currently crediting to QF, albeit with a better burn rate than QF.

Much better burn rate ( e.g.. 160k for a 1st return to London with no fuel fines vs 384k Qantas points plus around $350 in fuel fines vs 192k points to upgrade from economy to business)
plus 8 eVIPs ... each witha value of around 30,000 miles

Dave

 

[jasonja3]

Thanks Dave.

I may have a personal need to visit the west coast of the states a few times, do you think being a AA plat or Exec will help secure more award seats than a QFWP?

 

[Dave Noble]

Thanks Dave.

I may have a personal need to visit the west coast of the states a few times, do you think being a AA plat or Exec will help secure more award seats than a QFWP?

If you are trying to acquire business/1st awards, then there is no difference in availability. If trying to get economy awards, then there is additional availabilty to a QF member

Dave

 

[cowombat]

Hi Dave, always appreciate your platinum help! I almost always fly in J (thanks boss!) and don't know all the issues relating to economy travel. A work buddy wants to take a holiday MEL-LHR-MEL in mid year, probably flying CX on an L class economy ticket. If she takes on the Plat Challenge, does she earn 1 point per mile on this fare? Or half a point? I wasn't sure whether to use the CX or AA conditions for the point allocation determination. Good news for her is that Great Circle Mapper says this trip via HKG is just over 10,000 miles each way, so if full earning, she and hubby can have platinum for the trip home if full mileage is allocated. Thanks, David

 

[Mal]

Hi Dave, always appreciate your platinum help! I almost always fly in J (thanks boss!) and don't know all the issues relating to economy travel. A work buddy wants to take a holiday MEL-LHR-MEL in mid year, probably flying CX on an L class economy ticket. If she takes on the Plat Challenge

I'm not Dave Noble, but I should be able to answer this one. All challenges started from the beginning of this year are on AA flight numbers only. So your buddy won't be eligible for the challenge by just flying on a CX flight number.

 

[tuapekastar]

Hi Dave, always appreciate your platinum help! I almost always fly in J (thanks boss!) and don't know all the issues relating to economy travel. A work buddy wants to take a holiday MEL-LHR-MEL in mid year, probably flying CX on an L class economy ticket. If she takes on the Plat Challenge, does she earn 1 point per mile on this fare? Or half a point? I wasn't sure whether to use the CX or AA conditions for the point allocation determination. Good news for her is that Great Circle Mapper says this trip via HKG is just over 10,000 miles each way, so if full earning, she and hubby can have platinum for the trip home if full mileage is allocated. Thanks, David

As Mal has posted, challenge flights now need to be on AA flight numbers. If (a big if, I know) your friends have the time and flexibility, and are not firm about flying CX, then for a bit more (I really don't know how much more), they could fly MEL-LHR via North America and codeshare with an AA flight number on QF metal (eg. QF25 MEL-AKL-LAX), then AA from there on to LHR. They could look at a 'there and back' fare or maybe a LONE4 ATW. It would certainly complete the challenge by the time they arrived at LHR.