Is it worth earning points outside Qantas?

[acinod]

For Australians, it's easy to earn Qantas FF points but seems very challenging to earn points for any other airlines.

In particular, the Star Alliance has some amazing aircrafts that fly through Australia (e.g ANA, Eva, Singapore Airlines) but unlike the US/Europe, it seems very difficult to have enough points to book award seats on these airlines.

Is it worth earning points outside Qantas to book some of these Star Alliance airlines? I know we can earn Velocity points and transfer to Krisflyer but the conversion doesn't seem very worth when you can just earn Qantas points and book a similar flight to where you want to go. Or alternatively you can just use the Velocity points to book a flight on Virgin or Singapore Airlines (albeit with less availability and higher taxes).

Say I wanted to fly business class on Turkish Airways which is part of Star Alliance, how would I go about earning enough points in Australia to book that?

 

[SYD]

There are ways to earn SQ points directly in Oz (including flying VA) but the downside of SQ is the hard 3 yr expiry.

 

[levelnine]

when you can just earn Qantas points and book a similar flight to where you want to go.

Can you? That's the whole point of diversifying — you often can't do that with Qantas points.

The obvious alternative is Amex MR points as well as bank programs that convert to a range of airlines (St George Amplify, NAB Rewards, etc).

Have a look at this transfer partner chart to get an idea of what programs are out there: The Ultimate Australian Credit Card Points Transfer Matrix

 

[Mattg]

Can you? That's the whole point of diversifying — you often can't do that with Qantas points.

The obvious alternative is Amex MR points as well as bank programs that convert to a range of airlines (St George Amplify, NAB Rewards, etc).

Have a look at this transfer partner chart to get an idea of what programs are out there: The Ultimate Australian Credit Card Points Transfer Matrix

Absolutely. It is most definitely worth earning points with programs other than Qantas and if you're earning lots of points from credit cards, the easiest way is to earn credit card points that you can transfer out to a choice of other airlines as needed.

 

[drron]

If you are earning a lot of QFF points you very definitely should have a second program as QFF isn't great value.
It is good to earn in a Star Alliance program and the easiest for Australians is SQ but as others have suggested look up credit card loyalty schemes and which airlines they can transfer points to.
But it is worth while looking at other OW partners that flying on QF can let you earn points.
But it all depends on what you want out of a FF program.

 

[Human]

If you're interested in using points to fly long haul in premium cabins, then I'd almost go so far as to turn your question around and say that it's not really worth earning Qantas points, especially if you don't have Gold or Platinum status. But, as @drron above notes, it's all about what you want.

Having recently booked a business class flight on Turkish Airways (to use your example) I got the points through a combination of Bank of Melbourne Amplify and American Express Membership Rewards points (which can both be converted to KrisFlyer points), and from memory I transferred some Velocity points as well. It really wasn't hard.

 

[acinod]

Thanks for the insights. I'm just trying to work out if it's worth earning bank points and transferring them to KrisFlyer or just earning Qantas points and using the OW routes which aren't the most flexible.

Take IST-LHR business for example, I could either fly:

1. Turkish Airlines for 33,500 KrisFlyer miles (+126AUD taxes) = 67,000 BoM Amplify or AMEX points
2. British Airways for 43,800 QFF points (+$36AUD taxes)

Or SYD-HND business, I could either fly:

1. ANA for 104,000 KrisFlyer miles (+571.68AUD taxes) = 208,000 BoM Amplify/AMEX points
2. JAL for 90,000 QFF points (+102AUD taxes)

Of course we also need to take into account how easy it is to earn QFF vs BoM Amplify/AMEX points. Take BoM which only allows you to have either the Amplify or Qantas earning card:

• The best BoM Amplify card gives you 150k bonus Amplify Points on sign up and 1.5/$1 spend. If you spend $3k per month that's 54k Amplify Points from spend so in total you would have $204k BoM Amplify points
• Meanwhile the best BoM Qantas card gives you 90k bonus Qantas Points on sign up and 0.75/$1 spend. If you spend $3k per month that's 27k Qantas Points from spend so in total you would have $117k Qantas points which would get you

It's hard to say whether $204k BoM Amplify points is better than $117k Qantas.

• If you were interested in the IST-LHR route, then the BoM points are better since you can get 3 Turkish Airlines flights and Qantas can only get 2 British Airways flights.
• On the other hand if you were interested in the SYD-HND route, then the Qantas points are better since you can get the JAL flight just from the signup bonus alone while the BoM points won't even get you the ANA flight after 1 year unless you spend more than $3k per month.

If you assume KrisFlyer and Qantas points are the same value (based on various points valuations online), Qantas points seem to be better value and easier to earn. But perhaps the best strategy is to diversify and get a mix of points from different cards where possible.

 

[levelnine]

If you assume KrisFlyer and Qantas points are the same value (based on various points valuations online), Qantas points seem to be better value and easier to earn. But perhaps the best strategy is to diversify and get a mix of points from different cards where possible.

It is certainly far easier to earn QF points than pretty much any other airline points in Australia. VA probably comes in a relatively close second.

The question you have to ask: is the ease of earning QF worth the difficulty of redeeming?

Qantas availability can be okay once you've left Australia, but it can be tough on long haul routes into/out of Australia, especially in premium cabins.

Say you want to fly 2 adults in business class SYD to LHR early next year.

One day is available. And that one day is with Malaysia Airlines. Nothing on Qantas.


Meanwhile Singapore has availability every day in late January:

 

[Human]

@acinod On the one hand you’re overthinking things, but paradoxically you’re not thinking about the one thing that matters most: availability. Check availability on the routes you want before you accumulate or transfer your points. Then accumulate or transfer the points to the programmes where you will be most able to actually use those points.

If you’ve been following the AFF forums, you’ll have read countless accounts from people who have accumulated hundreds of thousands of Qantas points but who haven’t been able to find any availability of the flights they want. On the other hand those of us who have diversified are laughing all the way to the lounge.

 

[acinod]

That's a good point on availability and @levelnine's examples above really drives the point home.

What's the best way to accumulate KrisFlyer points? It seems like Amplify points have the best conversion rate at 2:1 while the big 4 banks is 3:1 so seems less worthwhile. But I guess if you're looking for availability then it's better than nothing.

For example with ANZ's signup bonuses, I can either get 150k ANZ rewards points (which convert to 50k KrisFlyer) or 110k Qantas points. If someone were to already have heaps of Qantas points then the ANZ rewards points seems like a no-brainer but the question would be harder for someone that is just starting out. Luckily it looks like you can get both cards to help you diversify.

 

[Human]

What's the best way to accumulate KrisFlyer points?

American Express Membership Rewards. The AmEx Explorer card, for example, will earn you 1 KF point per $ spent. The Platinum card will get you slightly more.

For those places that don’t accept AmEx, an Amplify card is probably the way to go. The Signature Visa, for example, will earn the equivalent of 0.75 KF points per $ spent (if you wait for the “Birthday bonus” each year, that rises to 0.825 points per $).

If I had the choice between 50k KrisFlyer points or 110k Qantas points, I would probably take the Qantas points but to me it’s no certainty in the current environment that 110k Qantas points are more useful than 50k KrisFlyer points.

 

[RooFlyer]

Say I wanted to fly business class on Turkish Airways which is part of Star Alliance, how would I go about earning enough points in Australia to book that?

You could do what I did recently to get return to Europe. Buy AirCanada Aeroplan points when there was a great bonus offer on and then book, easily. A cheap way to J seats and their list of partners is incredible - both StarAlliance and others not in any alliance. Or you could take out the new-ish Star Alliance branded credit card . Or any of the credit card that allow points to be converted to KrisFlyer, like my NAB card. But if you want a ready-made path to lots of points quickly, you may be disappointed. Most programs know their points have real value, so don't give them away like confetti - unlike Qantas Frequent Flyer.

when you can just earn Qantas points and book a similar flight to where you want to go.

Ha, ha. Have you tried to actually book seats (I'm talking J) to anywhere useful using Qantas points? And you know about the awful experiences when booking partner airlines in any cabin using Qantas points? Lost tickets because of Qantas agent's incompetence/lack of training? QFF is one of the worst FF schemes out there - maybe ANZ AirPoints is worse.

I have lots of QFF points and lots of Alaskan (OneWorld) miles as well. Both are nigh-on impossible to use for redemptions to Europe or Nth America unless you can plan a year out OR are lucky enough to jag a seat during one of QFFs irregular seat dumps. Put another way, they are of little use to me. They will be, eventually, but I'd like to fly now.

So, to answer tour question, yes it is valuable - nay, important - to diversify your Frequent Flyer programs. I'm warehousing my QFF points and no longer flying with QF unless I have to. I fly and earn VA points domestically (and am now Plat due to a VA status match) and plan to exploit their partnerships with Qatar Airways and SQ in particular. I'm a member of BA Executive club and keep my eye out for cheap Avios opportunities, which I can swap into QR, like I did to book QSuites to Europe recently. I'm also a member of Alaska Milage Plan and Aeroplan mainly for cheap buying opportunities.

 

[Happy Dude]

This is how I look at it: