Is F the new Dodo

[drron]

BA is the latest to consider the fate of F-
British Airways ditch first class in new planes as age of austerity bites | Business | The Guardian
"The long-haul aircraft that we take delivery of this year will not have any first class cabins in them," said Willie Walsh, BA's chief executive. He insisted there was no direct link to the recession, but he added: "Longer term we will review the configuration of [all] new aircraft." BA is also launching a service this year from Heathrow to Las Vegas, "

 

[aus_flyer]

This is a big change for BA, who currently has First on every longhaul flight (AFAIK).

 

[Cyclogenesis]

My 2c is that it will depend on the airline and thier desired market coverage...

There will always be demand for an F Class... For those that can not afford travel in a private jet but for whom $15K is disposable... And I think there are plenty of people like that (CEOs of moderate companies, Federal members (correct me if I am wrong) cashed up retirees...

Now dont forget the news that BA is suffering a major loss, other airlines, while they are cutting back on premium seats are not talking about removing them... every downturn has its up, and the people who have been clever in the downturn are looking forward to spending thier gains!

 

[Ikara]

My 2c is that it will depend on the airline and thier desired market coverage...

There will always be demand for an F Class... For those that can not afford travel in a private jet but for whom $15K is disposable... And I think there are plenty of people like that (CEOs of moderate companies, Federal members (correct me if I am wrong) cashed up retirees...

Cashed up retirees?? Who? Where? What do they look like? I used to be one, but thanks to the GFC not now and I'd be surprised if you can find any.

JB

 

[NYCguy]

There will always be demand for an F Class...

Indeed, there will. There are some city-pairs where there are more than enough passengers willing to stump-up the fares for a seat in F. NYC-LON services spring to mind, as do services to TYO and HKG out of European and US ports.

In the grand scheme of things, there are a lot of people for whom $15-$25K isn't a lot of money.

 

[drron]

Cashed up retirees?? Who? Where? What do they look like? I used to be one, but thanks to the GFC not now and I'd be surprised if you can find any.

JB

Absolutely!I probably one of the better off retirees as I can work part time to get the money for travel but there is no way I can stump up for F.Upgrades it has to be.

 

[Dave Noble]

This is a big change for BA, who currently has First on every longhaul flight (AFAIK).

They already do have some 3 class aircraft ( business/WT+/WT) 777s and 767s

Dave

 

[JohnK]

If most predictions are right that it will take at least 5-10 years before we make a full recovery from this economic mess then I expect most airlines will do away with First class on most aircraft. Even if we get out of this economic mess relatively unscathed there will be a lot of changes in most large corporations and travel budget along with executive salaries is going to be the hardest hit and under much tighter control.

And I don't know too many retirees who are able to afford to fly First class and there would even less of them since the pension funds took a huge hit last year....

 

[simongr]

I certainly agree that exec pay will be under scrutiny but I am not so sure about future travel budgets. Execs willl find a way to maintain their lifestyle - travel policies are not often reviewed by the Board so slipping in a few extras (e.g. spousal travel) might be a way of maintaining lifestyle.

Also although travel my seem expensive, relative to pay it's not that huge thus wont put that much of a squeeze on the budget.

In terms of retirees, now is the time to invest and get some bargains so people putting in a fixed amount into Super now will likely see some significant growth as teh market outperforms bonds in the medium term.

 

[jaffa]

I'm aware of quite a number of boardrooms and senior execs that now due to policy changes have moved back down to F commercial air from company & charter jets.

Even traditional charterers like music bands and enetertainment groups on tour are now ditching their old ways and are least in part reverting to some F commercial travel.

I think it would be a mistake for the airlines to be to rash in droping F, this is in fact a good opportunity to be picking up business they may have lost in the past.

I would hate for them to cut there nose off despite there face

 

[serfty]

The word I am getting is that Employees travelling F is 'on the nose' to shareholders/proletariat, so many top level execs (including CEO's) are making do with J.

 

[penegal]

I think we have to remember that 'new' J is a lot better than 'old' J. Most major carriers now have lie-flat seats in J, where as not so many years ago J class seating was a chair which reclined a little way.

I suspect this means that many passengers who would have previously flown F will now settle for J, especially with the pressure to keep costs down currently.

Furthermore 'Premium Economy' products are appealing to people who are on the border of Y and J.

 

[Dave Noble]

I think we have to remember that 'new' J is a lot better than 'old' J. Most major carriers now have lie-flat seats in J, where as not so many years ago J class seating was a chair which reclined a little way.

I suspect this means that many passengers who would have previously flown F will now settle for J, especially with the pressure to keep costs down currently.

Furthermore 'Premium Economy' products are appealing to people who are on the border of Y and J.

I would agree; it wasnt that long ago that 1st class only had recliner seats; now even decent J has decent fully flat beds.. the new BA J beds are the same length as the current QF F beds. The benefits of F over J are diminishing , though it is still nice to fly F. QF and BAs F products do, imo, need a major makeover to make them really appealing over new generation J and is one major reason ( plus the good value ) that I have chosen Ek for my next Europe-SWP r/t. Far better product with excellent service and a much better menu together with door to door transportation for each step of the journey

Being able to avoid LHR was the icing on the cake

Dave

 

[penegal]

The benefits of F over J are diminishing , though it is still nice to fly F. QF and BAs F products do, imo, need a major makeover to make them really appealing over new generation J...

There was some talk about BA launching a new F product around September/October this year, however I haven't heard anything about this for a few months... Perhaps this most recent move is the final nail in the coffin of BA F 'suites' or similar???

 

[NM]

There was some talk about BA launching a new F product around September/October this year, however I haven't heard anything about this for a few months... Perhaps this most recent move is the final nail in the coffin of BA F 'suites' or similar???

BA have revised their F product recently, but its the same seats just with revised amenities, glassware, menu etc.