I have had enough.... [Offloaded after Flight not called in VA lounge]

[Deleted member 29185]

why are those sitting in lounges any different?

Because courtesy calls are made, and departure boards are installed...........what we're discussing is the effectiveness of those systems on offer. Most times they work, occasionally they don't.

 

[Pushka]

Not a member of a lounge then seatback forward?

 

[JohnK]

But the real issue being debated here is about respsibility, and i'm surprised that those who would otherwise advocate self-responsibility can't see that waiting at the gate before the scheduled departure time, isn't the ultimate in self-responsibility.

Now you are talking about an ideal world. You know the type of world where airlines run on time and if I went to gate 20 minutes before departure they would be boarding.

I would love that ideal world too. But until airlines and airports get their act together I am going to try and relax in the lounge until it is actually time to board.

 

[The Rok]

Right, so let me get this straight. The airline is somehow responsible because 1 single lone passenger out of almost 200 was sitting in the lounge knocking back beers and vodkas, didn't hear the calls for that flight, missed the cut off for boarding and got off loaded???

I agree 100%, that in an ideal world the airline boards would be correct, passengers would be called, and as a last resort status passengers would be called on the mobile, but as per your comment, we don't live in an ideal world. It is NOT the airlines responsibility to ensure that YOU are at the gate on time for YOUR flight, that is YOUR responsibility. As an experienced traveller you should know that you need to be at the GATE 20 minutes before take off, not in the lounge.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

sitting in the lounge knocking back beers and vodkas,

Err, are we still talking about the VA lounge or are you embellishing the story somewhat?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

As an experienced traveller you should know that you need to be at the GATE 20 minutes before take off, not in the lounge.

Just throwing out a question here.......JohnK didn't alter the flight schedule, so isn't it the airlines responsibilty to advise pax of rescheduling? To be fair, he was never told when the rescheduled flight would take off, so how was he to present himself 20 minutes prior?

 

[Pushka]

Err, are we still talking about the VA lounge or are you embellishing the story somewhat?

Don't spoil their fun now. .

 

[Jama]

Sounds like we're ready to dispense with lounges, the whole pointless status program and we can all just wait at the bus stop like everyone else. That will make all the monotonous business travel even more fun than the drag it already is.

 

[legalistic]

Sounds like we're ready to dispense with lounges, the whole pointless status program and we can all just wait at the bus stop like everyone else. That will make all the monotonous business travel even more fun than the drag it already is.

Hehe, I still love Virgin, i to bug the desk ladies and make them earn their keep, by probing about boarding status at official boarding time. Puts them on guard/notice, and they always make sure they announce over PA when boarding commences.

Just my bit for the community, it's good to stand up, stretch and grab another cold one for the road.

 

[JohnK]

Right, so let me get this straight. The airline is somehow responsible because 1 single lone passenger out of almost 200 was sitting in the lounge knocking back beers and vodkas, didn't hear the calls for that flight, missed the cut off for boarding and got off loaded???

I had 2 beers waiting for the flight to be called. No vodkas in the Virgin lounge.

As an experienced traveller you should know that you need to be at the GATE 20 minutes before take off, not in the lounge.

How many times do you want me to say that I accept responsibility for missing the flight?

And you do understand that me accepting responsibility for missing the flight should not have an impact on Virgin, or any other airline, striving to keep passengers informed at all times.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Not a member of a lounge then seatback forward?

This is such an irrelevant question - that it deserves an answer - Yes I do have access to lounges, and as I've mentioned in the past on AFF, the status from flying and access to lounges is not the objective of my travels, but I consider it as as a form of compensation, or a gesture of goodwill because of the custom I give to the airline.

But to explain my take on this thread a little further let me outline my typical process before a flight.

For Domestic flights I try to arrive at the airport 60mins before departure, and for International my aim is two hours. After I pass through security, I, like the 99% of others also about to fly, will go past some monitors in the terminal that will indicate the flight number, the boarding gate and the boarding time. The gate is the single most important piece of information at this point. Boarding time is usually 20mins before departure time, so you should already know that even before you arrive at the airport. If the departure is in the next 30mins I'll not bother with the lounge. I don't *need* to be in the lounge before every flight - I'll just head directly to the gate, and perhaps I'm showing my humility here, but I'll wait along with everyone else until the boarding announcement is made. Of course Priority Boarding is a whole other topic. And yes I can relax standing up simply watching the world go past..in that brief moment before boarding. If there is more than 30mins to go, I'll either go to the lounge or wander around the airport. But this whole time I know what gate, I know what time.

Now in the event that the flight gets delayed, if you are aware of the delay, then you simply adjust that mental time. If you aren't aware of any delay. surely the default position is to go to the gate at 20mins before deaprture time? I don't understand why others would necessarily wait for boarding announcements if they want to make sure they board their flight. I might add here that, its not that I dread missing flights, its that I dread having to wait for the next flight! Sure you can wait for the announcements, or the displays to indicate the delay, but then you're shifting the oneus onto someone else. I will just wait at the gate until some further information is made available about when the boarding time will be. If the delay is less than 15mins its simply not worth returning to the lounge. If its unknown, I'll just wait there. My last experience with Virgin was exactly that. Standing at three seperate gates, waiting for over two hours only to have the last flight out of Perth get cancelled altogether. But my point is, I don't want to miss my flight, and the oneus is on me to ensure that doesn't happen. If you're given a timeframe, and lets face it, they are usually optimistic with timeframes rather than pessmistic, you just start the process over again. Know the gate, know the time..

Its easy to blame the airline, but as I've continually been pointing out on this thread, if 95% of the passengers on the flight don't miss the flight, who can the blame lie with? (and what hasn't, and probably wont, be answered is - for the OPs flight, how many other passengers were in the lounge and DID make the flight?). Its surely not a case that only plebs hang around the gate, and that passengers in the lounge need to be carried on divans to their allocated seats.

International is an even more bizzare experience. Every International lounge I've been to wants to check and scan your boarding pass, probably to ensure you're entitled to enter, but possibly also for them to know you're in the lounge. But of course, the bizarre aspect is that they give no hoots about whos left the lounge. The natural assumption is that you'll sit in there until boarding call, but in reality how can they know that anyone is still in there? The best they can do (I imagine) is some data analysis to understand *when* you walked into the lounge.

 

[Julesmac]

I've a great deal of sympathy for JohnK. I've been guilty of misreading a departure board or getting in the 24 hour clock muddle. However whilst JohnK freely takes responsibility for missing the flight, I thought one of the benefits of travel was enjoying the facilities of the lounge where you could wait in comfort for whatever period, until it was time to leave and catch your flight. It's a benefit that all airlines promote when extolling the advantages of membership, isn't it? I have been in the Qantas Club and not heard my flight called - but I sure picked up my ears when I was paged. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the gate/flight/boarding info shown on the boards is accurate. Poor performance by VA I reckon. And extremely irritating forthe pax.

 

[Pushka]

, the status from flying and access to lounges is not the objective of my travels, but I consider it as as a form of compensation, or a gesture of goodwill because of the custom I give to the airline..

Oh Kay. We only fly so we can get access to lounges.

And I asked my so called irrelevant question because I felt you had an agenda against those who do have lounge access.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Oh Kay. We only fly so we can get access to lounges. 

Well taken out of context. But do you agree it is the passengers responsibility to be at the gate on time? I'm sure the airlines don't intentionally have misleading monitors or purposely avoid boarding calls for their amusement. Or rather lets ask another question - what do you in lounges where they don't make announcements? and why can't you do the same then in ALL lounges?

And I asked my so called irrelevant question because I felt you had an agenda against those who do have lounge access.

Well that clearly doesn't apply.

 

[Pushka]

Well taken out of context. But do you agree it is the passengers responsibility to be at the gate on time?y.

Yes. As does JohnK. It is also the airlines responsibility to provide the information to enable me to do that. If the airline gives, or I pay for, access to their lounge for the purpose of pre travel seating then they also need to provide accurate information in that location.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Yes. As does JohnK. It is also the airlines responsibility to provide the information to enable me to do that. If the airline gives, or I pay for, access to their lounge for the purpose of pre travel seating then they also need to provide accurate information in that location.

Yes noted that John has accepted.

But for the rest..still doesn't address how those who are in lounges don't miss delayed flights. Surely a good % of those in the lounge are still able to make their flights even if the information is faulty.

 

[anat0l]

I think most lounges would probably do better without boarding calls. But given it's sort of ingrained into the culture in Australia now, a bit hard to turn back (you're going to get some rude shocks from long standing members).

Having travelled internationally a fair bit to know there are several lounges that don't do boarding calls (and several partner lounges that don't announce boarding of flights which are not operated by the same airline operating the lounge), I've learned to treat boarding calls as a 'bonus' as it were. And I'm prepared to give up lounge time to ensure that I get to the gate on time, because I don't like running for it, nor do I want to be that person who is holding up the flight from closing out and pushing back.

That doesn't disavow the airline of responsibility if they so choose to make boarding calls, and certainly if they had control over the FIDS (of which they should take the affirmative action to do so), they should be accurate.

Does that mean I miss out on some lounge time? Maybe... especially if I leave at T-20 for domestic flights (longer when in other countries), or T-45 for international flights. Do I stress out that I actually have to time myself to get to the gate? No... I check my watch because I know I have a flight coming up. A lounge just makes that waiting experience more comfortable. I set an alarm if I need to. What if I arrive at the gate and the flight is delayed further than the FIDS suggest? Oh well, so be it; if there's enough time, go back to the lounge. Is it a big deal? Well, delays happen.

I can't count the number of times I've had flights get close to scheduled boarding, but no call has been made, so I've gone to the lounge desk and asked them about the flight status. (I haven't flown enough VA to do this, but QF I've done it plenty of times, and they will happily look up the status and/or call the gate / service desk if necessary).

Is the airline at no fault? Definitely not! Are they at complete fault? Definitely not...well, maybe, but you have to admit there's always something we can do to help ourselves.

Am I not normal or an anti-FF due to this behaviour I have? Well, I'd have to admit being a bit oppressed if that were the case, but then so be it. I'm sorry if that's the case.

Maybe not but there have been plenty here suggesting this is JohnK's problem, not the airlines. I'm unsure how they can come to this conclusion quite so conclusively if they regard VA behaviouur as acceptable.

Maybe only because there's also a strong subthread which is misleadingly arguing that somehow passengers should never have to worry about missing their flight, because they will always be told (where it is offered), which seems to then lead on that the passenger suddenly has no responsibility.

Whether that is intentional or not, it's working for and against both sides of the argument.


If anything boils down out of this entire thread that is actually important, it's that airlines need to provide at least one reliable, up-to-date source of information for passengers to be able to know when to go to the gate and board their flight (apart from the time printed on their boarding pass, which is subject to change - either way!). Whether this be FIDS, ability to ask at the desk (hopefully not this! - very coughbersome), boarding calls or phone alerts - whatever.

As it stands for VA, they don't seem to have the most reliable systems all around. I was tracking my sister's flight on VA the other day (MEL-BNE) on the VA website. My sister had already landed in BNE and gone to gate, yet the website Flight Status still reported "Flight Operating". :shock: Nuts, really.

 

[MomoWang]

It is the passengers responsibility to get to the gate on time to board their flight. It is the airlines responsibility to provide information and assistance to the passenger so this can be achieved. This may come in the form of departure boards and/or announcements.

What is the right time to do this though and how long does it take you to get to the gate? Is the boarding announcement in the lounge the point where you go to the bathroom, pack up bag etc.. Or is it the signal to walk out the door straight to the gate.

 

[dk4]

I, for one, want to get as many monkeys off my back as possible...

So when I fly, I like an airline which employs staff, who will let them crawl off my shoulders and onto theirs. No.... even better... staff who see a monkey anywhere near my shoulders and race over to take it off.

So far, IME, this is best done at BBK, when flying TG F. Because the passenger-monkey removal system, as you step through the partitions pictured below is impeccable.

<dk4>

Once you walk through those doors, everything about getting you to your aircraft's door (at precisely the right moment, i.e. last) becomes the monkey on the back of ground staff, and not you the customer.

In fact in the TG F Lounge, not only are their no boarding calls, there are no flight information displays - there is simply staff; they know where you are going, they know when you need to be there, they seem to know everything (even where I like to sit in the bloody lounge). And the Thai ground staff team will not let you out of their sights, until they see you walk through the aircraft's door (even escorting you down the aerobridge in case you get lost, or to the bottom of the airstairs if boarding is from a remote stand, staying with you on the tarmac bus ride).

Now, I know this level of service is not going to happen, to anywhere near the same degree when flying domestically, however when I enter an Australian airline's domestic terminal, I prefer as many monkeys off my back and transferred onto the airline's staff as possible. And... even better... I would like to fly an airline, whose staff actively seek out those monkeys!

To those of you who want to be weighed down by as many monkeys on your back as possible, well you are welcome to keep them, but I don't want them on mine! (I've got enough already.)

 

[SeatBackForward]

Yes but if there is going to HAVE to be a monkey on my back, I'd rather it be under my control, than under someone elses.