I got an involuntary flight change and this is what happened…

Seat0B

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As per thread title, I got an involuntary flight change and thought I’d post my result in dealing with the fall out. This new thread might gather up the experiences of other people which seem to currently be spread through a range of various threads so we can use this as a resource of ideas when the inevitable strikes.
 
Flying Syd-Mel-Hnd in J at Easter with Qf as that is all I could get released by Qf. No way I would fly overnight Syd-Hnd in Y!
post: 2544490, member: 3615"]
Just had a win with Qf....received an email last night saying our Mel-Hnd is now rescheduled 2 hours earlier as Mel-Nrt departing at 0925 making it almost impossible to connect from Syd on same day...rang Qf premium who proactively offered us the new daytime Syd-Hnd flight 1220 to 2015 on the same day as original flights which i agreed to immediately :)
 
TLDR: do not give up, no matter what they tell you, especially when it is clearly bs. Do not accept involuntary changes that do not suit. HUACA. The call centres are getting faster, but not better.


In March 2023, as part of the DSC offer, I booked paid discount business flights CBR-BNE-HND-MEL-CBR for Mr Seat 0A and myself for January- February 2024. A friend of ours will travel with us, let’s call her Ms Teacher, and she booked at the same time for the same flights on a separate booking. This wasn’t my first choice of routing as I’d prefer to go via SYD in both directions, but the discounted flights were all snapped up before I managed to book, so we took the day flight out of BNE instead. Tickets issued and all good.

As we would drive at HND too late to do our usual bus transfer to the mountains to ski, we booked into the new and lovely Haneda Airport Villa Fontaine hotel for arrival night 22 Jan and our bus for morning of 23 Jan. We had occasion to stay in this hotel in Jan 2023 when our transfer was cancelled due to the massive snow dump, so I was quite happy about this.

Last night, we all got an email telling us that our flights had changed and to either accept the changes or call a special number provided to reschedule.

The changes saw us arrive in BNE on our connecting flight at 1010 to connect to QF61 departing at …. 0920. Plus it is now going to Narita, not Haneda, which is a bit like buying a ticket to SYD and being taken to NTL or to BNE and being taken to OOL. Did not really suit the arrangements I already made. Then the return flight QF 80 was changed to depart from NRT not HND and they cautiously allowed us only 8.5 hrs to make our domestic connection between MEL and CBR 😆😆. The wait plus domestic flight was as long as the international leg! So clearly the changes were not suitable.

I looks up alternatives on the QF web site and selected my preferred replacement flights, which were QF 1442 CBR to SYD arriving 1705 nd then QF 25 SYD to HND departing 2145 allowing a leisurely transfer and some F lounge time. I checked and if I wanted to purchase these flights, the QF web site was happy to sell them to me. Found similarly suitable return flights from HND.

And that is where the trouble began….

Called the provided number at 2pm today and was answered promptly- less than 3 minutes - by someone who sounded like they were in South Africa. First up, she warned me that my changes would incur the change fee. After explaining that the changes were involuntary ie initiated by QF, and that I would not pay anything, she agreed that was the case. With trepidation, I pointed out that I did not want to change my booking reference because of the DSC attached (which will see me retain WP status for another year). She said she would do her best, but if I made “major changes” it would probably re-issue. We talked this over for a few minutes and then she seemed to understand that the flights were to be changed for free, not cancelled and re booked. Then I asked for the flights I wanted. Lots of keyboard noises and was told that there were no seats on QF 1442. This seemed preposterous as that flight is a Dash-8 service between CBR and SYD at 4pm on a Tuesday 8 months from now 😆. She offered me a choice of a flight that departed CBR at 0940 to connect to QF25 at 2145 - a leisurely 12 hr wait, or a flight that arrived into SYD at 2005 for a 2145 international departure, which is too close for comfort for me - flights get cancelled or collapsed at CBR A LOT, and the bus tax is flaky later at night etc etc. I said no to both and insisted on QF1442, with QF1446 as Plan B. Ultimately after lots of waiting, she told me that neither of those flights was available, they would not show on her system and were therefore “phantom availability”. I kept on insisting that the flights were available as I could see them on the web site, so said no and on it went. I asked her to escalate to someone with different system access. She said she already had. I asked her to try again. She said she would, nd put me on a long hold agin, and after 40 mins on hold, the call was disconnected. Arghhhhhh.

So now I called the Platinum help line at just after 3pm today and was answered within 1 min by thank God, Hobart. The charming consultant quickly understood my issues, booked the flights I requested, thanked me for having my preferences worked out and alternatives, and said my ticket would be emailed very soon. TOTALLY AMZING. Then I said, how can we short circuit this problem for Ms Teacher, who is travelling with us on separate ticket, is Gold only and a relative newbie. We settled on Mr Seat 0A calling her on his phone, putting both on speaker and having her authorise me to change her flights to match ours. He then did that and we all had our new tickets in our email boxes within the hour.
 
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TLDR: do not give up, no matter what they tell you, especially when it is clearly bs. Do not accept involuntary changes that do not suit. HUACA. The call centres are getting faster, but not better.


In March 2023, as part of the DSC offer, I booked paid discount business flights CBR-BNE-HND-MEL-CBR for Mr Seat 0A and myself for January- February 2024. A friend of ours will travel with us, let’s call her Ms Teacher, and she booked at the same time for the same flights on a separate booking. This wasn’t my first choice of routing as I’d prefer to go via SYD in both directions, but the discounted flights were all snapped up before I managed to book, so we took the day flight out of BNE instead. Tickets issued and all good.

As we would drive at HND too late to do our usual bus transfer to the mountains to ski, we booked into the new and lovely Haneda Airport Villa Fontaine hotel for arrival night 22 Jan and our bus for morning of 23 Jan. We had occasion to stay in this hotel in Jan 2023 when our transfer was cancelled due to the massive snow dump, so I was quite happy about this.

Last night, we all got an email telling us that our flights had changed and to either accept the changes or call a special number provided to reschedule.

The changes saw us arrive in BNE on our connecting flight at 1010 to connect to QF61 departing at …. 0920. Plus it is now going to Narita, not Haneda, which is a bit like buying a ticket to SYD and being taken to NTL or to BNE and being taken to OOL. Did not really suit the arrangements I already made. Then the return flight QF 80 was changed to depart from NRT not HND and they cautiously allowed us only 8.5 hrs to make our domestic connection between MEL and CBR 😆😆. The wait plus domestic flight was as long as the international leg! So clearly the changes were not suitable.

I looks up alternatives on the QF web site and selected my preferred replacement flights, which were QF 1442 CBR to SYD arriving 1705 nd then QF 25 SYD to HND departing 2145 allowing a leisurely transfer and some F lounge time. I checked and if I wanted to purchase these flights, the QF web site was happy to sell them to me. Found similarly suitable return flights from HND.

And that is where the trouble began….

Called the provided number at 2pm today and was answered promptly- less than 3 minutes - by someone who sounded like they were in South Africa. First up, she warned me that my changes would incur the change fee. After explaining that the changes were involuntary ie initiated by QF, and that I would not pay anything, she agreed that was the case. With trepidation, I pointed out that I did not want to change my booking reference because of the DSC attached (which will see me retain WP status for another year). She said she would do her best, but if I made “major changes” it would probably re-issue. We talked this over for a few minutes and then she seemed to understand that the flights were to be changed for free, not cancelled and re booked. Then I asked for the flights I wanted. Lots of keyboard noises and was told that there were no seats on QF 1442. This seemed preposterous as that flight is a Dash-8 service between CBR and SYD at 4pm on a Tuesday 8 months from now 😆. She offered me a choice of a flight that departed CBR at 0940 to connect to QF25 at 2145 - a leisurely 12 hr wait, or a flight that arrived into SYD at 2005 for a 2145 international departure, which is too close for comfort for me - flights get cancelled or collapsed at CBR A LOT, and the bus tax is flaky later at night etc etc. I said no to both and insisted on QF1442, with QF1446 as Plan B. Ultimately after lots of waiting, she told me that neither of those flights was available, they would not show on her system and were therefore “phantom availability”. I kept on insisting that the flights were available as I could see them on the web site, so said no and on it went. I asked her to escalate to someone with different system access. She said she already had. I asked her to try again. She said she would, nd put me on a long hold agin, and after 40 mins on hold, the call was disconnected. Arghhhhhh.

So now I called the Platinum help line at just after 3pm today and was answered within 1 min by thank God, Hobart. The charming consultant quickly understood my issues, booked the flights I requested, thanked me for having my preferences worked out and alternatives, and said my ticket would be emailed very soon. TOTALLY AMZING. Then I said, how can we short circuit this problem for Ms Teacher, who is travelling with us on separate ticket, is Gold only and a relative newbie. We settled on Mr Seat 0A calling her on his phone, putting both on speaker and having her authorise me to change her flights to match ours. He then did that and we all had our new tickets in our email boxes within the hour.
Glad it worked out, don't know if Hobart actually has more authority, as well as competencies.

But the "please check availability again" (for which you were badly treated) actually worked for me last month when changing a lax-syd J rewards flight, on rechecking they found the seats I could see.
 
Glad you eventually got the right outcome.
Lots of keyboard noises and was told that there were no seats on QF 1442. This seemed preposterous as that flight is a Dash-8 service between CBR and SYD at 4pm on a Tuesday 8 months from now 😆. She offered me a choice of a flight that departed CBR at 0940 to connect to QF25 at 2145 - a leisurely 12 hr wait, or a flight that arrived into SYD at 2005 for a 2145 international departure, which is too close for comfort for me - flights get cancelled or collapsed at CBR A LOT, and the bus tax is flaky later at night etc etc. I said no to both and insisted on QF1442, with QF1446 as Plan B. Ultimately after lots of waiting, she told me that neither of those flights was available, they would not show on her system and were therefore “phantom availability”. I kept on insisting that the flights were available as I could see them on the web site, so said no and on it went. I asked her to escalate to someone with different system access. She said she already had. I asked her to try again. She said she would, nd put me on a long hold agin, and after 40 mins on hold, the call was disconnected. Arghhhhhh.
I assume the issue here was that the call centre agent was searching for Business Class seats CBR-SYD and of course that would only show as available for B737 operated services. All the Dash-8 services would not have met the search criteria as being Y-only. Naturally you were happy to travel that sector in Y, and the agent should have offered those flights with a note to you that it would not be in business class. So that is pure incompetence from the agent.
 
Glad you eventually got the right outcome.

I assume the issue here was that the call centre agent was searching for Business Class seats CBR-SYD and of course that would only show as available for B737 operated services. All the Dash-8 services would not have met the search criteria as being Y-only. Naturally you were happy to travel that sector in Y, and the agent should have offered those flights with a note to you that it would not be in business class. So that is pure incompetence from the agent.
Yes I wondered about that too - but of the two connections she offered me, one was an Embraer 190 so likely had Business class. The other was…. a Dash-8, which definitely does not! So although your suggestion is logical, that doesn’t seem to be the answer.
 
Maybe The JNB call centre has less visibility and more restricted tools. And only the HBA ones have the full proper tools.

I suspect a lot of people ring the call centre without first researched the alternatives and just accept come what come May. That HBA acknowledged that you came to them with preferences and alternatives suggests to me that HBA has greater visibility.

But was it a fluke that you connected to HBA upon a HUACA?
 
A good outcome for you @Seat0B . I have taken note of being prepared with alternate options. Unfortunately for me being a lowly bronze my call centre options are limited 🙁
 
Yes I wondered about that too - but of the two connections she offered me, one was an Embraer 190 so likely had Business class. The other was…. a Dash-8, which definitely does not! So although your suggestion is logical, that doesn’t seem to be the answer.
Yes, the E190 is likely to have a J cabin (and quite a nice way to fly, too). Perhaps the issue was then related to Married Segments where the default offering for international connections is a limited number of services that was being imposed to the overseas call centre agent and able to be overridden by the more knowledgeable Hobart team?
 
Yes, the E190 is likely to have a J cabin (and quite a nice way to fly, too). Perhaps the issue was then related to Married Segments where the default offering for international connections is a limited number of services that was being imposed to the overseas call centre agent and able to be overridden by the more knowledgeable Hobart team?
I suspect you are right about this @NM. But boy, it’s frustrating when you can see the flights on the web site and if you want to buy a new seat, you can get those very flights.
 
Maybe The JNB call centre has less visibility and more restricted tools. And only the HBA ones have the full proper tools.

I suspect a lot of people ring the call centre without first researched the alternatives and just accept come what come May. That HBA acknowledged that you came to them with preferences and alternatives suggests to me that HBA has greater visibility.

But was it a fluke that you connected to HBA upon a HUACA?
I wondered bout that too @Quickstatus - I am a WP so maybe it was not a fluke, but I was rather worried that my HUACA would end up right where I started and just waste another hour of my life. I was also worried about getting is sorted for Ms Teacher, our travel companion on. Separate booking as she’s only gold Nd I didn’t think she would get connected to HBA - rather that she would just get told the same BS about “phantom availability”.

But why on earth would QF have as a policy to restrict connecting flights in this way? I mean a paid ticket on a connecting flight is a paid ticket, and 8 months out there are surely plenty of seats. I could begrudgingly understand the 12 hr and 8 hr connections if it would be an award flight - not like it, but understand it - but when it’s a paid business set bought by a WP, that’s pretty shabby.
 
Totally should not be out of the ordinary and worthy of comment. ☹️

Very disheartening that they still hang up on people, and we know from other threads/experiences that Sth Africa and others CAN call people back (ie if its a genuine disconnection).
Yes to both your points @RooFlyer.

Mr Seat 0A was listening in on the call and he was incredulous - “did she just hang up on you because it was getting too hard?” That’s a hard yes, it was deliberate for sure.

And it is pretty sad to be so thrilled to get proper customer service, but that’s where I find myself these days. I was actually astounded that I got it sorted in only 2 calls and 1.5 hrs and even more astounded that I was able to sort Ms Teacher’s flights as well.

I look at the adjectives I’ve chosen to talk bout this - amazing (I can spell it right most times 😆), astounded and incredulous. These do not speak of routine, standard customer service, do they?

edit for spelling - having a shocker using the ipad
 
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The JNB call centre do not have full access and absolutely have all sorts of issues seeing seats that are available for sale. This call centre is an absolute disgrace and QF is a disgrace for continuing to use a call centre that still has not been trained properly and given proper system access. The fact that this is still an issue just exemplifies how QF management think their customers are chumps.
 
The JNB call centre do not have full access and absolutely have all sorts of issues seeing seats that are available for sale. This call centre is an absolute disgrace and QF is a disgrace for continuing to use a call centre that still has not been trained properly and given proper system access. The fact that this is still an issue just exemplifies how QF management think their customers are chumps.
I really agree with you. If I could be bothered, and if I thought it would make any difference, I would try to bring this to attention within QF - but I really feel like no one there cares at all.
 
I really agree with you. If I could be bothered, and if I thought it would make any difference, I would try to bring this to attention within QF - but I really feel like no one there cares at all.

Only way to avoid it, other than being P1 (Plats can still get Sth Africa call centre) is to change airlines. Don't keep encouraging them.
 
I have got a slightly different problem with an involuntary flight change and hope I can get some advice from such a knowledgeable crowd. My last leg of a Classic Award is MEL-OOL and has been downgraded to Economy from QF880 to QF1776. Admittedly, it could be my last flight on a B717 but I lose the Business Lounge in Melbourne before my flight to OOL after arriving from my return DEL-KUL-MEL on Malaysian Airlines with a very tight 1 hour transfer in KUL after a flight from DEL that is always late(the transfer time had repeatedly been reduced since having booked the flight some time last year). Should I just bite the bullet or try to get them to change it? There is only one daily direct flight for MEL-OOL so it restricts it even though I would be willing to fly via SYD or whatever.
 
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I’d call and suggest that the downgrade is not acceptable and then give them the flights that are acceptable even if via SYD and stress that you want a business class seat because that is what you booked. Good luck if you get through to JNB, but I would keep trying until you get it sorted. It’s not reasonable to downgrade you if there are alternatives you’re willing to take. Hope it works out. Post your results?
 
I’d call and suggest that the downgrade is not acceptable and then give them the flights that are acceptable even if via SYD and stress that you want a business class seat because that is what you booked. Good luck if you get through to JNB, but I would keep trying until you get it sorted. It’s not reasonable to downgrade you if there are alternatives you’re willing to take. Hope it works out. Post your results?
I'll try tomorrow as, with my luck, I would probably end up with JNB if I called now. Thanks for the advice and I'll let you know how it goes.
 
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