How would you deal with this situation?

[24601]

If he knew he didnt fit in a Y seat he should have stumped up for a PE or J seat to start with. The airlines really need to make people accountable for their own choice of seat and stop rewarding this behaviour.

Of course he COULD fit into a Y seat, he was just making a play for an upgrade, which unfortunately in this case worked. This was maybe 15 years ago. These days maybe they'd just kick him of the flight for raising his voice.

 

[flying_duck]

The boyfriend chose to move, he wanted to sit next to his girlfriend. He wasn't aware of the situation with the larger pax.

As a follow up, I caught up with the lovely boyfriend from my story again last night, he sat next to me AKL - MEL. I mentioned the larger pax and he was surprised and happy that his choice to move seats made a positive difference for everyone.

 

[Melburnian1]

Dr Ralph's suggestion that one should 'litigate' in these circumstances is not good if our society wants to minimise the costs - because there is a huge cost to us all - in USA style litigation. Litigation is unlikely to result in airlines suddenly ensuring magically that seats become three centimetres wider, or the pitch alters by five centimetres in passengers' favour. All it does is push up costs and hence fares that we pay on all four domestic airlines, and some fares have been rising faster than inflation in the past year so 'encouragement' for this to further occur would hit consumers and non-airline businesses.

However the QF onboard staff attitude was very poor. I can well imagine how 'passive aggressive' the QF staff would be, except for the airport manager who knows jolly well that the OP was being quite reasonable.

Granted that with OLCI and many passengers wanting to sit together (married couples, friends) the situation is complicated, and few domestic airlines (bar if there were such flights in Tonga!) know the weight of a passenger before he or she presents at the gate (especially now that bag drop and so on is increasingly automated) but airlines should be trying to give these obese passengers an aisle seat - although as one who likes aisle seats, if there were 50 obese passengers on a flight and I missed out, I could be unimpressed.

eastwest101's balanced comment hit the nail on the head. A difficult issue but the OP did nothing wrong that I can see. Being made to perceive by QF onboard cabin crew that he was 'the problem', not the obese man next to him, was most unfair.

RedRoo, do you have a view?

 

[Dr Ralph]

Dr Ralph's suggestion that one should 'litigate' in these circumstances is not good if our society wants to minimise the costs - because there is a huge cost to us all - in USA style litigation. Litigation is unlikely to result in airlines suddenly ensuring magically that seats become three centimetres wider, or the pitch alters by five centimetres in passengers' favour. All it does is push up costs and hence fares that we pay on all four domestic airlines, and some fares have been rising faster than inflation in the past year so 'encouragement' for this to further occur would hit consumers and non-airline businesses.

However the QF onboard staff attitude was very poor. I can well imagine how 'passive aggressive' the QF staff would be, except for the airport manager who knows jolly well that the OP was being quite reasonable.

Granted that with OLCI and many passengers wanting to sit together (married couples, friends) the situation is complicated, and few domestic airlines (bar if there were such flights in Tonga!) know the weight of a passenger before he or she presents at the gate (especially now that bag drop and so on is increasingly automated) but airlines should be trying to give these obese passengers an aisle seat - although as one who likes aisle seats, if there were 50 obese passengers on a flight and I missed out, I could be unimpressed.

eastwest101's balanced comment hit the nail on the head. A difficult issue but the OP did nothing wrong that I can see. Being made to perceive by QF onboard cabin crew that he was 'the problem', not the obese man next to him, was most unfair.

RedRoo, do you have a view?

Good luck with that strategy when you suffer an injury because of someone's negligence.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Good luck with that strategy when you suffer an injury because of someone's negligence.

The best option is to avoid the injury in the first place, as the OP did. No one wants to be injured and going to court probably isn't worth it.

 

[Dr Ralph]

The best option is to avoid the injury in the first place, as the OP did. No one wants to be injured and going to court probably isn't worth it.

I'm not sure that you understand what negligence is. Negligence isn't seeing an opportunity to be injured and then deliberately trying to injure yourself.

You might want to do some reading about the topic. Suggest you start with the case which represents the birth of the modern law of negligence:

Donoghue (or McAlister) v Stevenson [1932] AC 562 and then have a look at modern application in Australia via the Civil Liability Act (NSW) and the equivalents throughout each state and territory.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not sure that you understand what negligence is. Negligence isn't seeing an opportunity to be injured and then deliberately trying to injure yourself.

You might want to do some reading about the topic. Suggest you start with the case which represents the birth of the modern law of negligence:

Donoghue (or McAlister) v Stevenson [1932] AC 562 and then have a look at modern application in Australia via the Civil Liability Act (NSW) and the equivalents throughout each state and territory.

I thought we were talking about the situation with the OP. In that instance, the risk of injury was identified and action taken to avoid that.

You suggested in post #11 you would have 'litigated' in the event you were injured. Why would a person leave themselves in a situation they have identified is a risk? There's little point to that and it's a lose-lose situation.

 

[Melburnian1]

Rather than being legalistic and litigious, MEL_Traveller has the sensible approach.

Let's accept that airlines are not perfect and that they can improve, but the fact is that in a competitive world - and QF is not alone - commercial reality dictates that the best solution is to give the obese man an aisle seat and therefore to minimise any discomfort for other passengers.

If we shriek 'negligence' at every turn, one of the bases of civil society is placed under threat.

There's every argument that some additional regulation such as an EU-style passenger compensation scheme for serious late running might be useful but making a mountain out of a molehill for seat selection is not the best way forward. The OP acted sensibly and in a non-litigious manner.

 

[Dee#]

This had happened to me. I am a tall average sized female.

On a Virgin flight to I can't remember where or to (I'm a platinum FF)

In economy I always take an aisle seat as I hate to be hemmed in. I was one of the last to board, thank goodness, on this apparently full flight. A very large man was in the centre seat of 3 and had a huge behind. He had put the armrest up and his body was flowing onto my seat leaving only 2/3 of the seat. The guy by the window was disappearing under the flab and looked like a rabbit trapped in the headlights.

I tried to put down the armrest before I sat down but it wouldn't go, it was blocked by the fat.
That was enough for me.

Basically I walked back to the hostie area and said I'd paid for a full seat and didn't have one (bit hard as the hostie was as wide as she was tall).
2 of them came back to look. There was some mumbling but they could see the problem. Fatso was glaring at them and me. Then he mumbled a derogatory comment about me so I told him straight up what was going on. By this time we had the surrounding passengers attention and many were laughing.

I was also quite prepared to get off and they would have to take my bags off delaying the flight as I have resolved not to put up with this, ever.

It looked like a full flight but they found me another seat, but it was in the centre, at least with normal sized people. either side.

So fatso got 2 seats by default.

I think the airlines need to mark their names as overlarge guests and when they book make them book 2 seats or business.

i am quite prepared to do the same as the airlines don't like taking your baggage off, it costs them, and delays the flight. I would also take photos if I had to get off, just in case of a future problem with the $$$ of the flight, for proof, and for Facebook if necessary.

 

[docjames]

I like the Southwest system in the USA (not sure if it's been widely copied by other US carriers?): POS buys comfort seat which is refunded in full if the flight has spare seats.

This seems to be the fairest solution - although how does southwest manage the "grey zone" (should have bought one / didn't)?

 

[Dee#]

I wouldn't want to be in a row with an obese person in the aisle seat.
1. having to get past them to go to the loo
2. the safety concerns-evacuation
3. One large would still cramp the row.

 

[TomVexille]

This seems to be the fairest solution - although how does southwest manage the "grey zone" (should have bought one / didn't)?

They explain to the pax that they will have to buy one.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This seems to be the fairest solution - although how does southwest manage the "grey zone" (should have bought one / didn't)?

The Southwest test is the 'armrest must be lowered test'.

Reading a bit more - it seems the policy might have been relaxed. COS do not need to purchase a second seat. They can wait until the airport and will receive additional extra seats for free if necessary.

The FAQs answer why a passenger would book two seats rather than wait for the airport (basically to avoid being embarrassed).

The FAQs: https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/faqs.html?topic=extra_seat_policy

 

[11sjw]

I think it's a fair complaint. If someone is so huge that they are entering your personal space (and the seat you paid for), the onus shouldn't be on you to book a different flight, it should on the person who knew in advance the seat dimensions.

Agree. Why not an excess baggage charge as well? Clearly someone that large is well over the total weight allocation for one person.

 

[Isochronous]

Your ticket entitles you to 1 seat. If fatty next door is encroaching on it, you're well within your rights to complain and demand a new seat.

 

[JohnK]

I wouldn't want to be in a row with an obese person in the aisle seat.

With all due respect.

1. having to get past them to go to the loo

It's OK. Some of us are gentlemen and won't fondle your cough as you are going past but get up into the aisle instead. And some of us will even wait in the aisle until you get back to your seat.

2. the safety concerns-evacuation

Why would you be concerned? I would be out of there quicker than you. I have no intention of hanging around during an evacuation.

3. One large would still cramp the row.

How would that be? Don't make the assumption that all obese people are inconsiderate. I still manage to fit into row 4 bulkhead on Qantas 737 or any bulkhead/exit rows on Qantas aircraft. These have fixed armrests. I lean into the aisle to ensure the person in middle seat is not inconvenienced in any way. How would my actions cramp the row?

Oh and don't get me started on recliners. Please start your crusade against them instead of tarnishing all obese with the same brush.

 

[Deleted member]

On US style litigation: We at least don't have juries in civil cases. Remove juries from these cases and I suspect some degree of rationality may prevail ...... Don't hold your breath.

On being large (obese) : I'm big! My weight goes up and down. Right now it's up. I don't like it, it makes me uncomfortable. However I don't believe I encroach, in fact I try very hard not to.

On being seated next to a very large person: I gave Mrs GPH an ultimatum after enduring an AKL - BNE flight on VA where I ended up in an aisle seat next to a VERY large Samoan lady , with dubious BO ! I spent the flight leaning into the aisle. I'm not sure which was worse. The smell or the bruising. From getting knocked and bumped. Now I either buy J or try for an upgrade .

I now have a rule. If the flight is longer than 4 hours, I will be upgrading to J. Otherwise I ain't going !!
I am not just interested in my comfort. I am mindful of those that might be forced to endure sitting next to a big person.

 

[Dr Ralph]

On US style litigation: We at least don't have juries in civil cases. Remove juries from these cases and I suspect some degree of rationality may prevail ...... Don't hold your breath.

On being large (obese) : I'm big! My weight goes up and down. Right now it's up. I don't like it, it makes me uncomfortable. However I don't believe I encroach, in fact I try very hard not to.

On being seated next to a very large person: I gave Mrs GPH an ultimatum after enduring an AKL - BNE flight on VA where I ended up in an aisle seat next to a VERY large Samoan lady , with dubious BO ! I spent the flight leaning into the aisle. I'm not sure which was worse. The smell or the bruising. From getting knocked and bumped. Now I either buy J or try for an upgrade .

I now have a rule. If the flight is longer than 4 hours, I will be upgrading to J. Otherwise I ain't going !!
I am not just interested in my comfort. I am mindful of those that might be forced to endure sitting next to a big person.

What you have said is not correct. There are juries in civil cases in Australia.

 

[Deleted member]

What you have said is not correct. There are juries in civil cases in Australia.

Not having spent anytime being sued or in court as a litigant I unreservedly retract my assertion.

Late edit: my point was really around the juries in the US having way too much influence / decision making in the awarding of penalties.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Why would you be concerned? I would be out of there quicker than you. I have no intention of hanging around during an evacuation.

The issue is not how quickly a passenger thinks they will leave the aircraft, but whether they will be able to leave the aircraft.

Seats are designed to withstand certain stresses during an crash. Add extra weight and the effectiveness of the seat to protect the passenger and/or stay fixed may come in to question. If your seat doesn't hold properly, you may be injured to the extent you not only hamper your evacuation, but others around you.

Plane passengers are getting too fat for seat belts: Experts warn airlines to take action - Armchair Traveller