How does qantas expect one to stay loyal with a consistently poor product

[AL1CE]

ALICE, you have a perfectly understandable point of view but please understand that on the AFF forum are many who seem to almost believe that Qantas is some sort of 'god.'

That said, I am happy to be corrected but don't your criticisms also apply to some or all flights (depending on the route) between MEl - HKG, MEL - SIN, SYD - HKG, SYD - MNL, SYD - PVG, SYD - SIN and BNE - SIN to name a few given that many of these flights are operated by unrefurbished A330s?

I deliberately avoid QF and generally find that tickets are cheaper and the service acceptable to excellent on a range of other carriers such as SQ, MH, PR and others.

While recently there has been a small reversal, the overall trend in the past decade or longer has been for the QF group to lose percentage market share of international travellers.

About 75 per cent of us choose to fly with non Qantas group airlines when we go overseas or return, a statistic in marked contrast to the discussion on AFF when sometimes one would be excused for thinking that 70 per cent of international passengers ex or to Oz flew on a QF group carrier. I understand why - QF is still seen as the 'national carrier' despite long being privatised, and the brand has much 'value' even to those who do not or rarely fly, but it's not reflective of who we overwhelmingly choose to fly with.

Oh no, no correction! I absolutely agree with you on all your points. JPN- SYD, HKG- SYD SUCK! Yes, their product and service on every international and domestic (surprisingly, not when I was put in dom Y, they were amazing, almost like they took pitty on me for a WP in Y) has not even come close to what you experience with other airlines. Which I agree, is far cheaper!
I must admit though, I have never flown the SYD-SIN With QF, only Garuda and CX. (which were fine)

Although, I am very new to this forum, I do understand Peoples' passion regarding QANTAS, and although privatised, it is still by law, majority Australian owned. (Which is one of their major problems) But, that is a far deeper political discussion for this forum, and not on topic with this thread (So I'll bring myself back to the topic at hand)

My loyalty to them is not symbolic or patriotic in the sense that they are our 'national carrier' or 'God', I'm an Atheist after all ;-)

It has more so to do with support for local industry and jobs. Though, I do question why? Is it our/my want to support Australian industry? Or for that WP status???

Have I become a true WP???????????

Now, I am fundamentally a loyal person in general, it's part of my core being and values, it comes naturally to me. However, I'm now in a position of being old enough and (maybe not wise enough) to know that, although being loyal is a good thing, one has to draw the line somewhere. I suppose, that line came for me when the loyalty wasn't a two way street.

After all it takes a lot of money and BOS to attain/retain WP, is it worth it? If you're an elitist, YES! (or fly every week, for the company)

So, I guess my OP was badly written and what I was really trying to say, on top of my feeling of being ripped off time, and time again is, I have 8 months to decide if I want to retain my WP/OWE or walk away and start again.

 

[Melburnian1]

ALICE, airlines know that we all love 'free' things - a 'free' chocolate 'tastes better' or so we think, but on balance, so many passengers on this forum who are paying for their own personal travel (and not having it paid for by a company or government department) would be far better off financially in picking the cheapest available fare for the class of travel desired on what they perceive to be an acceptable airline.

The FF schemes have become almost a worldwide obsession but for self funded travel, constantly chasing 'the next level' or salivating at the thought of finally getting 'into the lounge' can be an extremely expensive hobby. The danger is that points are difficult to redeem for flights to the desired destination and on the date that you wish to travel without booking 353 days in advance, a strategy that far from suits everyone given how circumstances can change.

That to me isn't good value, as one can often spend a small extra amount in a slightly nicer hotel to freshen up and sleep after a 'cheapie' flight.

 

[AL1CE]

Syd-JNB can be awful if you get an unrefurbished 747 - had the worst night's sleep in March flying JNB- SYD on one. Then Qantas added insult to injury by not loading our preselected meals, so we had to have whatever was left over by the time they finished trying to work out what had happened. Fortunately a terrific CSM and an OK crew stopped it from being a terrible flight, but I understand the OP's frustration.

I appreciate your comment, because to be told "You should have been smarter and preselected online" was an absolute shock to me. I'm not an unreasonable person and am always polite and courteous to all staff, as I have been staff! (Not on a plane obviously!) (o.k, o.k except one time, actually 2 times to be honest, I've called them on things.... but some trolly dollies can get coughy, I know, I have a few as friends)

Yes, the CSM will come and do his best to charm you, and I will always accommodate them, as there is not much they can do at 30,000 ft, but at the end of the day your chair is still broke, you're still hungry, and you constantly keep having to ask for your 'champagne' ha! to be topped up, can I have blanket please Sir?

All obnoxious, first world problems, I'm aware. However, I work hard for my pay cheque, and being ripped off, is being ripped off.

 

[AL1CE]

ALICE, airlines know that we all love 'free' things - a 'free' chocolate 'tastes better' or so we think, but on balance, so many passengers on this forum who are paying for their own personal travel (and not having it paid for by a company or government department) would be far better off financially in picking the cheapest available fare for the class of travel desired on what they perceive to be an acceptable airline.

The FF schemes have become almost a worldwide obsession but for self funded travel, constantly chasing 'the next level' or salivating at the thought of finally getting 'into the lounge' can be an extremely expensive hobby. The danger is that points are difficult to redeem for flights to the desired destination and on the date that you wish to travel without booking 353 days in advance, a strategy that far from suits everyone given how circumstances can change.

That to me isn't good value, as one can often spend a small extra amount in a slightly nicer hotel to freshen up and sleep after a 'cheapie' flight.

LOL, YES! FREE!

I agree to a degree, with your point and maths, but anything over 5 maybe 6 hours, I've learnt the hard way. If I can, I will be in J. That been said, please do not get me wrong, I have flown Y A LOT! (even with jetstar, no high horse here. Maybe a unicorn, but no high horse)

 

[AL1CE]

Sorry, was too busy with my unicorn to reply to your VERY, EXTREMELY, valid comment of "Government department", Even friends in the lower tiers of COMM Bank get WP status, just 'cause! That is another political issue that maybe I should not bring up here.

 

[AL1CE]

(and not having it paid for by a company or government department)

The FF schemes have become almost a worldwide obsession but for self funded travel, constantly chasing 'the next level' or salivating at the thought of finally getting 'into the lounge' can be an extremely expensive hobby. The danger is that points are difficult to redeem for flights to the desired destination and on the date that you wish to travel without booking 353 days in advance, a strategy that far from suits everyone given how circumstances can change.

That to me isn't good value, as one can often spend a small extra amount in a slightly nicer hotel to freshen up and sleep after a 'cheapie' flight.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, was too busy with my unicorn to reply to your VERY, EXTREMELY, valid comment of "Government department", Even friends in the lower tiers of COMM Bank get WP status, just 'cause! That is another political issue that maybe I should not bring up here.

 

[froggerADL]

better selection of alcohol, (especially in economy)

OK AL1CE, you've gone a step too far now! I have Virgin Platinum and my experience is that a request for a 2nd beer gets me a look that says "you're takin' the p1ss mate "(note how I used a 1 in place of the i there Al1ce)! Then they graciously get me the drink. The joys of being VA platinum! My experience on Qantas is that they almost pour the alcohol down my throat!

Other than that, a very enjoyable, and valid, rant. Even your handle is shouting at me LOL.

 

[slc767338]

the constant 'sudden' aircraft changes from the 'New fitted out business class suites' to planes so old my great grandmother probably flew on them and you wouldn't book a seat on one if you knew!

I know of a certain poster (of the Canine variety) in these forums that shares your views on this topic...

 

[AL1CE]

Things don't have to be black or white, flying 100% with QF or not at all. IMO on some routes they offer a good overall product: most domestic routes, AUS-USA, AUS-LHR, SYD-JNB and when they will finish refurbishing the A330s then the Asian routes will become attractive again.
Even that I'm P1 and have over 1M QFFP I'm not doing all my flying with QF, especially not international. If other airlines offer better product I won't hesitate choosing them over QF.
Blind loyalty only means no incentive to improve but there is also no reason to go extreme and "boycott" them, QF is still one of the top 10 airlines in the world.

Totally agree with you, 50 shades of grey (never read it, joking!)

I'm not boycotting them, or trying to start one by any means. As that would just be a joke, (on me!) "I'm taking my $5,000 -$19,000 a yr and my 120,000 points and leaving!"

However, it's a quandary for the everyday people, no sorry, a dilemma. Do we choose to chase that WP/OWE or go VFF/(Not much), as an Aussie? it's one of the 2. So, considering QANTAS is part of OW and with Virgin offering a smarter, superior product dom, (maybe more from SYD) they need to step up! I do however, sincerely want to see them become what they once were!

Not in the top 10 for being one of the safest as hey are now, (not knocking that BTW)

But for being the most safest, glamorous, luxurious, great service, great food, great champagne, seats that don't break, T.V screens that aren't the size of our phones and chairs that are comfortable and clean, food that doesn't run out, and bathrooms that work.......

 

[AL1CE]

OK AL1CE, you've gone a step too far now! I have Virgin Platinum and my experience is that a request for a 2nd beer gets me a look that says "you're takin' the p1ss mate "(note how I used a 1 in place of the i there Al1ce)! Then they graciously get me the drink. The joys of being VA platinum! My experience on Qantas is that they almost pour the alcohol down my throat!

Other than that, a very enjoyable, and valid, rant. Even your handle is shouting at me LOL.

LOL, Cute!
"A smile and manners will get you were money can't"


I'm not Platinum with Virgin, but I still got one on the house in Y for good behaviour.
I do have a cute/embarrassing story on a Y flight with QF, (They were so lovely to me) Apparently QF do not serve Gin in Y, which I found out in a very embarrassing way, but they were lovely and got one for me no complaints from the Y team ironically.

Although I will admit, I once got asked on VA flight J, 1A, if I would be driving home, after my 3rd bottle of Gin Umm no!

 

[AL1CE]

I know of a certain poster (of the Canine variety) in these forums that shares your views on this topic...

Well, I am born in the year of the dog, so I'm sure we'll get along....................?

 

[Spongbob]

AL1CE, you said in your first post on the thread "These are just a few issues that I've had with QANTAS in the last 18 months and I'm a PW."

Yet, your AFF Flight Tracker does not show any QF international flights, only 7 domestic flights. Perhaps you should update your Flight Tracker.

 

[AL1CE]

AL1CE, you said in your first post on the thread "These are just a few issues that I've had with QANTAS in the last 18 months and I'm a PW."

Yet, your AFF Flight Tracker does not show any QF international flights, only 7 domestic flights. Perhaps you should update your Flight Tracker.

Apologies for not updating my Flight Tracker. Not on the top of my list of things to do, however it does need a lot of updating, and can be a bit tedious. Will get on to it Spongbob.

 

[slc767338]

Apologies for not updating my Flight Tracker. Not on the top of my list of things to do, however it does need a lot of updating, and can be a bit tedious. Will get on to it Spongbob.

Don't feel like you need to update it - keeping it current obviously isn't compulsory and some of us obviously don't have as much time on our hands as Spongbob

 

[UP4014]

Re: How does qantas expect one to stay loyal with a cosistanly poor product

Thirdly, sure it is helpful to Australian jobs flying the national carrier, but sadly, that shouldn't be a good reason. I mean if it is a strong enough reason, then we should all be buying Australian built cars which we don't. That's just the way demand is now and now the motor industry is coming to an end. The last Australian built car our family ever bought was a 1988 Holden Commodore VN - that's 27 years ago

Yes, and didn't they have the Nissan motor and drive line, unless you had the V8.

Matt

 

[OATEK]

Re: How does qantas expect one to stay loyal with a cosistanly poor product

Thirdly, sure it is helpful to Australian jobs flying the national carrier, but sadly, that shouldn't be a good reason. I mean if it is a strong enough reason, then we should all be buying Australian built cars which we don't. That's just the way demand is now and now the motor industry is coming to an end. The last Australian built car our family ever bought was a 1988 Holden Commodore VN - that's 27 years ago!

Yes, and didn't they have the Nissan motor and drive line, unless you had the V8.

Matt

Was that the model that had a dreadfully under-powered 4 Cylinder version that couldn't cope with more than two occupants at a time? (Sorry, OT I know).

 

[Alanslegal]

Re: How does qantas expect one to stay loyal with a cosistanly poor product

Was that the model that had a dreadfully under-powered 4 Cylinder version that couldn't cope with more than two occupants at a time? (Sorry, OT I know).

Dad bought the car - I was too young to drive in those days - and it was definitely the 3.8L V6. It had so many faults that it put us off Australian made cars again - I guess it's not too different from AL1CE's experience with Qantas*

* and I brought it back on topic

 

[drron]

Apologies for not updating my Flight Tracker. Not on the top of my list of things to do, however it does need a lot of updating, and can be a bit tedious. Will get on to it Spongbob.

I wouldn't worry about it AL1CE.I have been here quite a while and I have no intention of adding to my Flight Tracker!:shock:
I'm glad you have seen the light.I am in my 10th year of having given up on QFF.But stayed loyal to OW jumping only to Aadvantage.However they are now continually enhancing the program so I have joined the trickle,soon to be at least a creek ,of those forgetting about being loyal to one alliance and have been getting awards on SQ and TG courtesy of lifeMiles and Amex points.
Just trying to get mrsdrron to LTG so still doing a few QF flights.

 

[AL1CE]

Thanks drron.

Yes. Well, those lucky enough to have an Amex card are on a good ticket ATM. AMEX seems to have made a deal with Ettihad/Virgin (for a while). They have had some unbelievable deals - Triple points + pay business get free upgrade to First. It's a horrible route if going to South America, but the points are impressive. Though, are only good value with VA dom. QFFP and OW at least has a much better Intl value/Point system IMO.

 

[ogs70]

I can relate.

An experience last week has made me remember the other end of the spectrum to the often cited "when they are good they are the best".

Myself, partner and entire upper-deck on the 747 were the unfortunate recipients of service from a FA who could at best be described as being below the average service I've received whilst flying a red-eye transcon JQ flight and at worst mildly concerning from a position of safety.

There were clear and obvious signs that she was tired and did not want to be there. Visible yawning multiple times during the safety demonstration, not remembering and mixing up orders, forgetting to clean up an entire rows breakfast to the extent where the crew were to be seated for landing, a confused Japanese passenger brought his own back to the galley, I think perhaps thinking this was the norm. There was also a lack of acknowledgement to anything, just a sort of brief stare and then she would disappear.