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How do retirees still earn FF Points, and optimise travel?
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ChrisDPom
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Just read this thread and very relevant for me as:
(a) retiring on 10 April at 52; and
(b) worked 31 years in the super industry.
A few comments on various posts.
Transition To Retirement Allocated Pensions/ Income Streams (same thing just different jargon)
These are really effective if working and 60 or over as the 4% to 10% annual drawdown range is all tax free.
If 55 to 59, not so effective as the drawdown portion from the taxable component is assessible income for income tax less a 15% tax offset. You need a large tax free component to usually make this worthwhile at these ages as the maximum concessional component before the penalty tax is $35,000 per financial year.
May work for a low income earner whose tax offset wipes out their tax between $18,200 and $37,000 with what's left of their LITO and SATO, especially if a younger high income earner is maxing their concessional contributions (Super Guarantee, self employed deductible conts and salary sacrifice).
NB: If in allocated pension mode (retired or transition) you don't pay tax on earnings and get the franking credits on Aussie shares credited as well. Don't buy shares just for the franking credits as capital gains are tax free so good growth oriented shares that don't pay high divs have their place but the franking credits are a nice bonus.
Someone mentioned they don't trust the govt on super and after 30 years of constant changes that is a fair comment. However, govt changes are usually grandfathered so they don't affect you immediately and most don't affect those already of certain ages. If already 55+ any future nasties will usually have a transition that doesn't affect you.
2 recent changes that prove the opposite are the rising pension age 65 to 67 in 6 years to 2023 has made many curse.
The he other real nasty was the loss of the deeming offset if not both a pensioner and on an allocated pension by 1 Jan 2015. My main gripe with the last is if you change provider of your allocated pension, you lose the deeming offset (e.g. Corporate/ Pub Sector/ Industry/ Retail/ SMSF - move from one to another now if an age pensioner and kiss the deeming offset goodbye).
Preservation Access Ages
From 1 July this year, these changes start kicking in.
You our have to be born 30 June 1960 or earlier to have 55 as your preservation age.
After that, up she goes (and this also affects when you can start a transition to retirement:
Born 1 July 1960 to 30 June 1961: 56 first access
Born 1 July 1961 to 30 June 1962: 57 first access
Born 1 July 1962 to 30 June 1963: 58 first access
Born 1 July 1963 to 30 June 1964: 59 first access
Born 1 July 1964 onwards: 60 first access
So if like me affected by the change and retiring early, you need non super investments to live on until you can start accessing your super.
Adding to super
Someone mentioned cannot contribute to super from age 75. Well sort of.
If working and employed can salary sacrifice until then and cut off after that.
If self employed can make deductible contributions up until then.
If employed there is now no age limit for super guarantee but hopefully most of us have stopped working by then!!
There is another test from 65 for your contributions - must have worked 40 hours over any 30 day period that financial year. This test also applies if wanting to just chuck cash into your super (non concessional contributions).
Nom concessional contributions (non deductible after tax conts) also have a contribution cap. In 2014/2015 this is:
65 and over: $180,000 and must meet the work test above; and
Under 65: $180,000 a year (no work test) and can fast track 3 years to max of $540,000 - but beware any excess or incorrectly calculated overlap on the years as the cap breach penalties are downright nasty and also count for the concessional cap. Try an over 90% combined penalty tax breach for one of our super fund members whose cap breach was taxed on both the concession and non concessional caps
He had also paid capital gains tax on the money he put into super, but couldn't sue his advisor as he was his own advisor/ accountant and didn't understand the rules.
Anti-Detriment Benefits
Remember all that contribution and investment tax at 15% we paid in the accumulation phase of our super (Keating's present from 1988 when he wanted to "bring forward" some of his taxes on super)?
There is a way to get this back on inheritance of super. If super on death is paid to a surviving spouse or children, the taxable component can have its tax refunded and paid as an anti detriment payment. Many super funds who an do this don't offer the payment of this (some still claim the anti-detriment but don't pass it on which should be illegal but isn't).
The actual calc is complex but basically what ever the amount is, the super fund can gross it up (divide by 15%) and claim it as a tax deduction against other taxable income of the super fund.
This is especially a problem for SMSF's.
Say the bulk of the assets are in allocation mode - what taxable income in the fund is there to offset against this tax refund?
An SMSF can have 4 members so many advisors are suggesting getting the kids to join while mom and pop are still alive. There accumulation mode super can then use the tax deductions.
Remember, the SMSF must also allow anti-detriments in the trust deed or this is not allowed - and no you can't retrospectively amend the deed after mom or pop croak!!
If with a non SMSF, check if they make this payment. If not why not and consider a move.
If single and no kids - ignore as cannot get this
i just ust did my calc on my account and this is worth over $100,000 (better not tell the family I am worth more dead than alive).
Last super issue - on property in super, you cannot even lend the holiday to mates or family as this is a shoot to kill issue for the ATO. They have absolutely no sense of humour on these breaches and you are guilty until proven innocent with the ATO.
All transactions must must be seen to be totally arms length - if renting a property out, set up via an online booking service and make sure everyone uses it and pays full rates.
SMSF auditors must see a clear audit trail or they are required by law to report possible breaches to the ATO. The ATO has ramped up audit resources in this area (and have found lots of revenue raising breaches).
Conclusion:
Get an advisor/ accountant who is pro-active. Most of us don't even know what the questions are we need to ask (and Canberra constant changes mean they can change annually).
That is the boring technical bits out of the way
Now onto the initial poster's thread.
Having 600k of QFF points and an expanding bucket list for travel, I am going to use my points for overseas travel upgrades and Award bookings internal flights - both seem the best use of the points.
My plans are to retire, rest knackered joints between trips (reason retiring early), do a bit of consulting (can work anywhere I have Internet access) and rotate between Perth/ Brisbane (my lady's home), Bali, Europe, Bali and repeat until dead.
I have active hobbies and worldwide friends to visit and visit me and will take advantage of SC's on Jetstar Bali to keep status until LTS and keep paying QClub for lounge access.
While we all have our gripes with Qantas, I still keep loyal to them for convenience - will take advantage of stupid cheap deals if they arise as a couple of Europe trips a year mean I easily make Silver (and if I make Gold, I get a free year in QClub).
Except for my Dad's birthday in London in mid December I hope to never see winter again anywhere around the world (been in London 11 years in a row since he got crook and grateful to still have him even if not grateful for the damp cold that makes my joints ache during after the visits).
In retirement, you have to keep active in both body and brain.
Walk where you can.
Socialise.
Try new places and experiences.
See the real Australia outside the cities.
Remember, once your health goes, so does most of the bucket list.
If you feel unwell or something "does not feel right", go to the docs and get it checked. This one is mainly for the males who can't be bothered, don't want to know so they can hope the problem will just go away or are too Ocker to go to the doctor - it's a large reason why women outlive us fellas, (they get health issues checked out early).
Cheers
Chris
NB: Anyone want to clarify any of these super rules, pm me to arrange a chat over a Bintang in Bali in a few months
(a) retiring on 10 April at 52; and
(b) worked 31 years in the super industry.
A few comments on various posts.
Transition To Retirement Allocated Pensions/ Income Streams (same thing just different jargon)
These are really effective if working and 60 or over as the 4% to 10% annual drawdown range is all tax free.
If 55 to 59, not so effective as the drawdown portion from the taxable component is assessible income for income tax less a 15% tax offset. You need a large tax free component to usually make this worthwhile at these ages as the maximum concessional component before the penalty tax is $35,000 per financial year.
May work for a low income earner whose tax offset wipes out their tax between $18,200 and $37,000 with what's left of their LITO and SATO, especially if a younger high income earner is maxing their concessional contributions (Super Guarantee, self employed deductible conts and salary sacrifice).
NB: If in allocated pension mode (retired or transition) you don't pay tax on earnings and get the franking credits on Aussie shares credited as well. Don't buy shares just for the franking credits as capital gains are tax free so good growth oriented shares that don't pay high divs have their place but the franking credits are a nice bonus.
Someone mentioned they don't trust the govt on super and after 30 years of constant changes that is a fair comment. However, govt changes are usually grandfathered so they don't affect you immediately and most don't affect those already of certain ages. If already 55+ any future nasties will usually have a transition that doesn't affect you.
2 recent changes that prove the opposite are the rising pension age 65 to 67 in 6 years to 2023 has made many curse.
The he other real nasty was the loss of the deeming offset if not both a pensioner and on an allocated pension by 1 Jan 2015. My main gripe with the last is if you change provider of your allocated pension, you lose the deeming offset (e.g. Corporate/ Pub Sector/ Industry/ Retail/ SMSF - move from one to another now if an age pensioner and kiss the deeming offset goodbye).
Preservation Access Ages
From 1 July this year, these changes start kicking in.
You our have to be born 30 June 1960 or earlier to have 55 as your preservation age.
After that, up she goes (and this also affects when you can start a transition to retirement:
Born 1 July 1960 to 30 June 1961: 56 first access
Born 1 July 1961 to 30 June 1962: 57 first access
Born 1 July 1962 to 30 June 1963: 58 first access
Born 1 July 1963 to 30 June 1964: 59 first access
Born 1 July 1964 onwards: 60 first access
So if like me affected by the change and retiring early, you need non super investments to live on until you can start accessing your super.
Adding to super
Someone mentioned cannot contribute to super from age 75. Well sort of.
If working and employed can salary sacrifice until then and cut off after that.
If self employed can make deductible contributions up until then.
If employed there is now no age limit for super guarantee but hopefully most of us have stopped working by then!!
There is another test from 65 for your contributions - must have worked 40 hours over any 30 day period that financial year. This test also applies if wanting to just chuck cash into your super (non concessional contributions).
Nom concessional contributions (non deductible after tax conts) also have a contribution cap. In 2014/2015 this is:
65 and over: $180,000 and must meet the work test above; and
Under 65: $180,000 a year (no work test) and can fast track 3 years to max of $540,000 - but beware any excess or incorrectly calculated overlap on the years as the cap breach penalties are downright nasty and also count for the concessional cap. Try an over 90% combined penalty tax breach for one of our super fund members whose cap breach was taxed on both the concession and non concessional caps
He had also paid capital gains tax on the money he put into super, but couldn't sue his advisor as he was his own advisor/ accountant and didn't understand the rules.
Anti-Detriment Benefits
Remember all that contribution and investment tax at 15% we paid in the accumulation phase of our super (Keating's present from 1988 when he wanted to "bring forward" some of his taxes on super)?
There is a way to get this back on inheritance of super. If super on death is paid to a surviving spouse or children, the taxable component can have its tax refunded and paid as an anti detriment payment. Many super funds who an do this don't offer the payment of this (some still claim the anti-detriment but don't pass it on which should be illegal but isn't).
The actual calc is complex but basically what ever the amount is, the super fund can gross it up (divide by 15%) and claim it as a tax deduction against other taxable income of the super fund.
This is especially a problem for SMSF's.
Say the bulk of the assets are in allocation mode - what taxable income in the fund is there to offset against this tax refund?
An SMSF can have 4 members so many advisors are suggesting getting the kids to join while mom and pop are still alive. There accumulation mode super can then use the tax deductions.
Remember, the SMSF must also allow anti-detriments in the trust deed or this is not allowed - and no you can't retrospectively amend the deed after mom or pop croak!!
If with a non SMSF, check if they make this payment. If not why not and consider a move.
If single and no kids - ignore as cannot get this
i just ust did my calc on my account and this is worth over $100,000 (better not tell the family I am worth more dead than alive).
Last super issue - on property in super, you cannot even lend the holiday to mates or family as this is a shoot to kill issue for the ATO. They have absolutely no sense of humour on these breaches and you are guilty until proven innocent with the ATO.
All transactions must must be seen to be totally arms length - if renting a property out, set up via an online booking service and make sure everyone uses it and pays full rates.
SMSF auditors must see a clear audit trail or they are required by law to report possible breaches to the ATO. The ATO has ramped up audit resources in this area (and have found lots of revenue raising breaches).
Conclusion:
Get an advisor/ accountant who is pro-active. Most of us don't even know what the questions are we need to ask (and Canberra constant changes mean they can change annually).
That is the boring technical bits out of the way
Now onto the initial poster's thread.
Having 600k of QFF points and an expanding bucket list for travel, I am going to use my points for overseas travel upgrades and Award bookings internal flights - both seem the best use of the points.
My plans are to retire, rest knackered joints between trips (reason retiring early), do a bit of consulting (can work anywhere I have Internet access) and rotate between Perth/ Brisbane (my lady's home), Bali, Europe, Bali and repeat until dead.
I have active hobbies and worldwide friends to visit and visit me and will take advantage of SC's on Jetstar Bali to keep status until LTS and keep paying QClub for lounge access.
While we all have our gripes with Qantas, I still keep loyal to them for convenience - will take advantage of stupid cheap deals if they arise as a couple of Europe trips a year mean I easily make Silver (and if I make Gold, I get a free year in QClub).
Except for my Dad's birthday in London in mid December I hope to never see winter again anywhere around the world (been in London 11 years in a row since he got crook and grateful to still have him even if not grateful for the damp cold that makes my joints ache during after the visits).
In retirement, you have to keep active in both body and brain.
Walk where you can.
Socialise.
Try new places and experiences.
See the real Australia outside the cities.
Remember, once your health goes, so does most of the bucket list.
If you feel unwell or something "does not feel right", go to the docs and get it checked. This one is mainly for the males who can't be bothered, don't want to know so they can hope the problem will just go away or are too Ocker to go to the doctor - it's a large reason why women outlive us fellas, (they get health issues checked out early).
Cheers
Chris
NB: Anyone want to clarify any of these super rules, pm me to arrange a chat over a Bintang in Bali in a few months
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Might just print that out ChrisDPom.
Ok our SMSF is already in TRAP (used to be called that). Clearly when we turn 60, the tax rules change.
We've been told not to pay any super that FY until the day after the 60th birthday. Say on an annual Super payout of - make it round figures - $20 k and PAYG of $100 k - By delaying that payment until 60, how much does that save in tax.
(Not real figures but the amounts make it easier for me to apply in any circumstance)
Ok our SMSF is already in TRAP (used to be called that). Clearly when we turn 60, the tax rules change.
We've been told not to pay any super that FY until the day after the 60th birthday. Say on an annual Super payout of - make it round figures - $20 k and PAYG of $100 k - By delaying that payment until 60, how much does that save in tax.
(Not real figures but the amounts make it easier for me to apply in any circumstance
)
Last edited:
Thanks for that ChrisDPom on the super summary. The anti detriment recovery is a biggie and I have helped get three of those over the line in the past few years where I help in marshaling assets for the surviving spouse. The use of super to hold a holiday home is definitely a mistake that many make.
As a business owner I found that paying payroll tax on my salary and getting incrementally taxed at 46.5% (now 49%) was something to avoid as that just added about 5% to those numbers.
You did a good job convincing me that we should have our working children included in our SMSF sooner rather than later.
Now some of my particular thoughts on travel now that I have made it to 65 and I still enjoy working.
Having heart by pass surgery at 44 changed where I go. For example I don't go to places where the health system is cough and no I don't need to pick up some tropical parasite just for fun. Yes I travel best available and I have that figured by doing testers. I am reliant on Chubb travel insurance for medical evacuation but I would also have emergency standby funds just in case for a medical recovery.
I have stopped going to third world countries but for several years we stored and loaded medical supplies to Bali to help after the bombs went off.
The ATO points will continue for us (provided the scheme is not junked by every bank) and that has saved our family heaps of money and I have invested those savings over the past 6 years. My favourite cards are Westpac Kris,Qantas Credit Union,Bankwest Platinum, Citibank Prestige (for non tax stuff) and Citibank US. I do have other cards for specific reasons but the ones I listed get a lot of action when it suits us.
As a business owner I found that paying payroll tax on my salary and getting incrementally taxed at 46.5% (now 49%) was something to avoid as that just added about 5% to those numbers.
You did a good job convincing me that we should have our working children included in our SMSF sooner rather than later.
Now some of my particular thoughts on travel now that I have made it to 65 and I still enjoy working.
Having heart by pass surgery at 44 changed where I go. For example I don't go to places where the health system is cough and no I don't need to pick up some tropical parasite just for fun. Yes I travel best available and I have that figured by doing testers. I am reliant on Chubb travel insurance for medical evacuation but I would also have emergency standby funds just in case for a medical recovery.
I have stopped going to third world countries but for several years we stored and loaded medical supplies to Bali to help after the bombs went off.
The ATO points will continue for us (provided the scheme is not junked by every bank) and that has saved our family heaps of money and I have invested those savings over the past 6 years. My favourite cards are Westpac Kris,Qantas Credit Union,Bankwest Platinum, Citibank Prestige (for non tax stuff) and Citibank US. I do have other cards for specific reasons but the ones I listed get a lot of action when it suits us.
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Thank you Chris, I have just printed your post for my husband, who runs our family SMSF. I am sure he covers most of these points, but often you pickup a trinket of gold in a single line of text.
D
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What! No general advice disclaimer Chris? . (Lol)
When are you in Bali next?
When are you in Bali next?
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Flying mermaid
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Thank-you for a very comprehensive list - both super and thoughts on retirement. Just one thing to add on property. If you run your own business, your business premises can be put into the super fund and you can rent them back to your business. On retirement they can be sold and no capital gains is paid by the super fund. We did this and it was very advantageous all the way through.Just read this thread and very relevant for me as:
If with a non SMSF, check if they make this payment. If not why not and consider a move.
If single and no kids - ignore as cannot get this
Last super issue - on property in super, you cannot even lend the holiday to mates or family as this is a shoot to kill issue for the ATO. They have absolutely no sense of humour on these breaches and you are guilty until proven innocent with the ATO.
All transactions must must be seen to be totally arms length - if renting a property out, set up via an online booking service and make sure everyone uses it.
Chris
NB: Anyone want to clarify any of these super rules, pm me to arrange a chat over a Bintang in Bali in a few months
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Yes. Thats a good plan as it is a commercial agreement. (And thankyou for the QP pass - I am in the QP right now having just surrendered it.
)
Flying mermaid
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My pleasure - glad the pass was usefulYes. Thats a good plan as it is a commercial agreement. (And thankyou for the QP pass - I am in the QP right now having just surrendered it.
coco50
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Dead Right!! Frequent flyer members should avail themselves of a tutorial on how to maximise the earning of points while on the ground!
coco50
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Status is important for a number of reasons. Firstly, if you are paying for your flight (which I usually do) you attract a cabin bonus points if your status is more than QF bronze as well as the points that accrue for that sector. Secondly if you can reclaim the dizzy heights of gold or better which you may have had while you were working, you will earn QF and partner lounge access when flying. There are also other perks such as priority boarding that I don't really worry about any more but there are many who do.
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amaroo
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ChrisDPom
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Might just print that out ChrisDPom.
Ok our SMSF is already in TRAP (used to be called that). Clearly when we turn 60, the tax rules change.
We've been told not to pay any super that FY until the day after the 60th birthday. Say on an annual Super payout of - make it round figures - $20 k and PAYG of $100 k - By delaying that payment until 60, how much does that save in tax.
(Not real figures but the amounts make it easier for me to apply in any circumstance
TRAP was not the best acronym - too many people started singing "I'm caught in a trap and can get out" - the karioke was terrible!!
Not taking an allocated pension annual drawdown in the FY you turn 60 until after your birthday is common advice. Before your birthday assessible income subject to marginal tax rate and Medicare less 15% tax offset. After birthday it is tax free.
$100,000 assessible income means 39.5% income tax and standard 2% Medicare levy. So net tax of 24.5%. On $20k this is a tax saving of $4,900.
NB: any tax free component reduces the tax liability.
I do these in my head as I deal with this daily. I wish the moneysmart website had some decent calculators and explanations on this stuff.
Cheers
Chris
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Thanks Chris. That's exactly the info I needed. Its a healthy save then.
I'm close to retirement, still working and the wife and I are on TRIPs..mainly to get the feel of a pension. With FF pts we have about 600k QFF and just starting to work on the Virgin points. Any FF scheme like Kris flyer (SQ) that has an expiry date on the points.. not interested in. Came back from Singapore business class last year on points. Enjoyed the experience, the free pyjamas on this overnight flight. This year the wife and I need to go to Europe. Will try to get an upgrade on the same flight home. Have a couple of QF lounge passes from a credit card. So the 9pm flights out of Singapore are good to visit the lounge. A shower, a couple of drinks, dinner. Get there about 6pm to enjoy the experience. Travelling in business class in the day time, not so important, we alway go for opposite aisle seats in economy. On some legs (like Beijing back to KL) Air Asia premium economy lie flat seats are very reasonably priced. But of course this was all before their recent crash.
Perhaps like driving long distance in a car, when we fly to Europe we stop both ways normally in Singapore. At least 1 overnight going and a couple coming home. I could go straight thru, this is more for the wife.
But be it car or plane, the aim these days is to enjoy the travel and not to kill yourself with 20+ hours in an aircraft.
Perhaps like driving long distance in a car, when we fly to Europe we stop both ways normally in Singapore. At least 1 overnight going and a couple coming home. I could go straight thru, this is more for the wife.
But be it car or plane, the aim these days is to enjoy the travel and not to kill yourself with 20+ hours in an aircraft.
coco50
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A great strategy. I use this when travelling to the US to visit my son and daughter who live there - one in LA the other in Santa Fe. Just cannot do the 13 or 14 hours to LAX or DFW. Fly JQ *class to HNL and chill out for a few days. Then AA cattle class to LAX and a few days later to SAF. The reverse procedure on the way home.
ChrisDPom
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The general advice disclaimer would be 3 times longer than the post - really, really not going to miss all the compliance bumf.
Next Bali visit will be April and or May (got a house to sell) then again in July/August probably after a month in Europe. Back in Europe September/ October for rugby World Cup and then Bali/ Perth again until December. Repeat until dead.
Got to sort out property in Perth & Bali - probably rent in both while I sort out purchases so while retiring still lots to keep me occupied for a year or so just on that.
Cheers
Chris
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We will also be in Europe on a TRP from our smsf; living the dream!
Thanks also for the post on super; far better than any explanation I could have put together, and covering the critical aspects without getting bogged down on some of the more obscure details.
I hope you are able to attend the AFF annual get-together in Cairns; if so, an information session on super would be a great benefit to members.
JV
lovetravellingoz
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Thank you ChrisDPom for your contribution. That was excellent in many ways.
Though if I may just a couple of tweaks to you latter points:
Walk or cycle where you can.
See the real Australia, and World, outside the cities. (It often amazes me how many people travel from city to city, missing what is in between, though noted if like Cove you have medical reasons not too)
Indeed on the last point many travellers actually only visit in the main the 'tourist" sites gain just an ersatz view of everything.
Though if I may just a couple of tweaks to you latter points:
Walk or cycle where you can.
See the real Australia, and World, outside the cities. (It often amazes me how many people travel from city to city, missing what is in between, though noted if like Cove you have medical reasons not too)
Indeed on the last point many travellers actually only visit in the main the 'tourist" sites gain just an ersatz view of everything.
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I'm saving Australia for when I'm in a less healthy state and don't want to worry about health insurance travel. Pretty much covered Qld but not much at all of the Top End.
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