How can QFi not be making any money? packed flights to the UK

[ChrisCunard]

I've never not had a pre dinner / supper / lunch drink in J on QFi or QFd.

 

[mannej]

That pretty much sums it up...

I'd say add poor fleet choice and planning as well

 

[Kangol]

Not sure what flight you were on but QF in May there was no pre dinner drink in J. They did the pre take off drink then the first contact (maybe an hour or so after takeoff) was to ask meal choice and dinner drink choice. On one leg I asked for a Campari and soda for pre dinner drink and was told that my meal would be here soon but they could do it if I wanted.

So no pre dinner drink was offered but would be available if one asked for it. This would have required using the call button, which I feel is pushy and hence I try to avoid it. By contrast J SYD-ADL involves a pre-meal drink service from a cart with a separate meal service.


Sent from the Throne

This was going back to Jan, I must be confusing the pre-takeoff drink with a pre-dinner drink.
I certainly remember in J the FA taking my order for a pre-lunch drink and in PE I had a pre-takeoff drink (Billiecart-Salmon).
Then after takeoff I had a couple more champagnes before dinner. I think they were offered, I don't remember.
Things have probably changed since then...

 

[mosanator]

It absolutely tickles me that so many of you complain about the service from staff at the same time as pointing the finger at wages and conditions as the reason for QF's financial problem. So is your solution then to cut wages and conditions? And that in turn will improve service by creating an engaged and happy work force? Or perhaps just sack all those that aren't performing and replace them with new cheaper crew, perhaps foreign crew? Then those people will be the very same people complaining about the service from Jetstar crew or Mumbai call centres and alike!

I am confused and amused by the hypocrisy I guess.

Constantly blaming labour cost and conditions is a very narrow and flawed management focus. Usually happens where the management team has run out of idea's or initiatives and begin finger pointing, lest the finger gets pointed at them. Read between the lines on some of the replies from a respected poster on this site who flies for QF. Sounds to me to be from frustration, disappointment and angst (not from greed or a sense of entitlement) - perhaps that is stemming from a lack of engagement between the front line staff and their management. QF seems to be taking the view that their staff are their greatest liability, rather than their greatest asset.

An earlier poster stated words to the effect that QF were only concerned with their shareholders not pax, and that if they continue like that then that's all they will have left. Too true - but not for long! Who wants to have shares in an airline with no pax?

NO I am not a Union official - but yes, I do work in the Industrial Relations field.

 

[medhead]

It absolutely tickles me that so many of you complain about the service from staff at the same time as pointing the finger at wages and conditions as the reason for QF's financial problem. So is your solution then to cut wages and conditions? And that in turn will improve service by creating an engaged and happy work force? Or perhaps just sack all those that aren't performing and replace them with new cheaper crew, perhaps foreign crew? Then those people will be the very same people complaining about the service from Jetstar crew or Mumbai call centres and alike!

I am confused and amused by the hypocrisy I guess.

I am insulted by you calling me a hypocrite. I have never "blamed" wages! But I do wonder why it is not possible to offer one of the aperitifs listed on the menu before dinner on a 12 hour flight.

If I want to think about wages in this equation and hypothetically if I accept the position that those wages are high (BTW I don't accept that position). Then I would suggest that staff should be providing an appropriate level of service to match their pay - eg pre-dinner drinks.


Sent from the Throne

 

[bcworld]

It absolutely tickles me that so many of you complain about the service from staff at the same time as pointing the finger at wages and conditions as the reason for QF's financial problem. So is your solution then to cut wages and conditions? And that in turn will improve service by creating an engaged and happy work force? Or perhaps just sack all those that aren't performing and replace them with new cheaper crew, perhaps foreign crew? Then those people will be the very same people complaining about the service from Jetstar crew or Mumbai call centres and alike!

I am confused and amused by the hypocrisy I guess.

I don't see the hypocrisy? Most are commenting on a lack of typical service 'items' which are the norm in long haul J class. If there is no drinks run before dinner I expect it is because their manual says so...not because the crew can't be bothered.

As for pay & conditions...I'm pretty sure many BA flyers report good/better/more enthusiastic service from mixed fleet crew (poorly paid in comparison) compared to some of the experienced, unionised veterans.

 

[cmon0005]

name one airline that has pre-takeoff drinks/nibbles for economy.

Jetairways - 9W, (a QF codeshare partner airline) to/from SIN to Mumbai, Delhi.etc. When I had flown Y with them internationally end of last year they supplied, Hot towels, bottled water or orange juice, pack of fruit & nut mix all before take-off.

Also if I remember correctly as early as August 2011, I flew SQ Y and got a choice of water, OJ, Apple J in cups before take off, also got hot towel. Not sure about a snack though.
I think on this flight my heart was still pounding as I got all the way to syd airport from my house and forgot my passport! only to tell the taxi to turn around and step on it to get my passport, arrived at checkin with 5 mins to spare, lucky for express passes, breezed through security to the gate.

 

[markis10]

I've never not had a pre dinner / supper / lunch drink in J on QFi or QFd.

I often get pre- meal drinks on QFd J, last week it was ex DRW, TSV and ADL. Best trip was the crew who recognised said drink required two bottle of scotch for the ice .

 

[medhead]

Jetairways - 9W, (a QF codeshare partner airline) to/from SIN to Mumbai, Delhi.etc. When I had flown Y with them internationally end of last year they supplied, Hot towels, bottled water or orange juice, pack of fruit & nut mix all before take-off.

And what service did jet airways provide in flight?


Sent from the Throne

 

[mosanator]

Firstly medhead and bcworld, I never singled out any particular poster, it was a general observation. But if you feel the need to defend yourself then so be it, but from your follow on comments I don't think you needed to. However I was not aiming my reply at any particular person or their thread/post. Just a general observation from many threads and posts, not just this one. Also from my work and very often a general view in society.

Both of your comments are what I am alluding to. Perhaps it is some of the rules or processes/policies/procedures that cause some of the angst, and this is sometimes attributed incorrectly at "experienced unionised veterans" as being lazy or having an entitlement culture. Why is it that the BA flyers (this can't be the same crews as I have experienced with BA) report this better service. Might be that these people feel more engaged and/or empowered in their employment and despite less $$$ they receive. Maybe they feel valued and appreciated rather than scorned? Remember back to when you were working your first job (or even now) and the boss said to you "well done, good job". It didn't matter that you were getting minimum wage, you felt valued. AND it didn't cost him/her anything.

Management and some pax having the view that all QF staff are unionised and therefore lazy surly entitled people is the same as the unions having the attitude that all bosses are highly overpaid, Chardonnay sipping, incompetent lying mongrels. THEY ARE BOTH WRONG. However the workforce can't control management decisions, good or bad. The buck must first and foremost stop there.

Cutting wages and conditions and union busting won't save QF, good management with solid sound initiatives and a customer rather than shareholder focus, in-conjunction with an engaged workforce might.

Believing because they are unionised and therefore this engagement is not possible is a very broad generalisation and a misplaced (media driven) view. It is certainly not my experience. IMHO if you have a valued and engaged workforce, your union influence is diminished. There is an old tenant in the union movement about increased membership goes hand in hand with a bad workplace.

 

[cmon0005]

And what service did jet airways provide in flight?

Can't remember what they provided in the way of amenities (may have been a toothbrush and eyeshades) it was only a 5hr flight departing in the evening.
Upon takeoff they first did a drinks trolley run with soft drink, beer, wine & spirits on offer. After drinks run they came around and served dinner, which included another bottle of water, a hot dinner, indian flat bread, dessert, yoghurt, pickle and of course mouth freshener. About 1/2 an hour before they turned off the lights for sleep time, they served a small but hot snack & tea/coffee can't remember exactly what it was.
In the morning 1 & 1/2 hr out of SIN they served breakfast again can't remember what it was but it was hot.
During the flight as well they would regularly collect rubbish and ask if we wanted top-ups for our drinks.

Here's a quote from a trip report of mine back from 2010, Syd-BOM return

BOM-SIN on Jetairways A330-200 (QF codeshare)
*Quite possibly the best Y experience I have ever had, Jetairways simply ROCK!
*Seats were really comfortable, the neck support on their Y seats is fantastic, why aren't all Y seats like this?
*During sleeping time, they turned on blue/purple mood lights, this made for easy on the eyes as well as relaxing. Again why don't other airlines do this?
*Cabin crew were excellent, attentive, friendly and efficient.

SIN-SYD on Qantas A380
*First time on an A380, was a little underwhelmed in some respects, although the aircraft itself was amazing.
*The 'designer' Y seats were a disappointment, especially considering I just came off Jetairways with their awesome Y seats. The neck support of the A380 was cough to say the least, every time I moved the neck support forward it didn't hold and just went back again..
*IFE was great, food was great.
*Cabin crew seemed to hide in the Galley and were too busy eating their own snacks and chatting about their social lives rather than attending to passengers.

 

[Simo]

QFi losing money Qantas poor..

It is a way for QF to make a statement about the carbon tax.

You can make your figures look really bad if you want for certain people.

Businesses run 2 or 3 financial books and any money they are showing the bad book.

 

[Kangol]

Businesses run 2 or 3 financial books and any money they are showing the bad book.

You mean the mafia?

 

[Simo]

You mean the mafia?

No I don't mean the mafia.

Doing a business's books for the ATO is a lot like doing your own income tax.

You claim everything you can and don't want to show the true profit otherwise you have to pay more tax.

I am not against paying tax I just like to minimise what I have to pay like everyone else.

We still have to pay tax every year and also every qtr we make a BAS payment as well.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Wow...this got people going....maybe, like me, people are really disappointed with the way Qantas is going under Joyce. I recently flew Sydney/Joberg return. Packed plane both ways. A broken seat in front of me with a big heavy man in it so consequently spent the flight with his head in my lap (and no, not fun!). The flight staff weren't very concerned and nowhere for me to go anyway. A letter to Qantas got a very hohum generic reply....too bad, better luck next time. A similar experience with Jetstar and no reply at all to my letter. I now fly Virgin locally and all different airlines internationally. I used to love Qantas and really do want to support Australia but not with this kind of reaction. We reap what we sow.

 

[Snowy56]

These little extras offered to economy class passengers were what made Qantas economy class superior to other airlines' economy class.
As for magazines I was referring to Woman's Day, Time etc.

 

[SeatBackForward]

These little extras offered to economy class passengers were what made Qantas economy class superior to other airlines' economy class.
As for magazines I was referring to Woman's Day, Time etc.

Your life is far better off without magazines like Womans Day :idea:

 

[Moopere]

... and really do want to support Australia but not with this kind of reaction...

What does that mean? Support Australia? Australian jobs?? I have no idea as to the support/crew mix of Australians versus others with DJ but somehow imagine the larger proportion being Australian, or at least Australian based (and presumably paying Australian income tax).

 

[lindapsych]

Ridiculous with what is happening with the Olympics, most of their flights are full, very little discounting.

I know it is only a sample of one but just checking my flight to the UK next week to gauge any chance of an OpUp (very unlikely I know but always interesting to speculate rather than working) and F is showing this:

F0 A0 J2 C0 D0 I0 W0 R0 T0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 E0

So potentially only two seats available for sale.

The EF seat map is showing five unallocated seats in F, 1 in J and 1 in PE

Checking on the QF website the return trip in J would cost $14,963 :shock: I paid about $11K a couple of months ago.

Just what is wrong with QFi that aren't making money???

 

[mannej]

Ridiculous with what is happening with the Olympics, most of their flights are full, very little discounting.

Why would they discount if the flights are full, and there is a good chance the seats will be filled?