Hotel charged $500 after checkout without telling us

[Mark3000]

We found $500 on our credit card after checkout and they never told us and we would appreciate advice regarding what to do.
We had some issues on check in with a nasty manager but our stay at this hotel went fine.
A week after checkout, we found $500 on our credit card statement and called to ask why. This manager who is really aggressive and nasty claimed that "ornaments" were damaged and there was damage to the paint on the wall. This is in an old apartment that hasn't been renovated in 10 years.
We thought we would be OK disputing the charge with Amex but the manager wrote to them saying we damaged ornaments and Amex have said the charge will be put back on.
Apart from small claims court, what are our options.
This is an apartment block in New South Wales.
Obviously a bad tripadvisor review is coming their way, but this manager thinks she is above the law.
2 months later they have refused to reply to our emails or send quotes or written proof.
We are at a loss what to do, but it seems taking them to Small Claims Court is the best option.
Thanks

 

[opusman]

Tell Amex you're not paying it unless they provide proof.

 

[vetrade]

I agree that proof of the damage should be demanded although I guess that could be fabricated easily enough.
If it's an apartment block then it's not a hotel.Was it booked direct or through airbnb, Expedia etc, in which case you could complain to them? One option might also be to report it to Consumer Affairs as fraud.

 

[Isochronous]

Amex can't reverse the chargeback because the onus is not on you to prove a negative (that you didn't damage anything) - the onus is on the merchant to prove that damage occurred, that it was caused by you, and that you had a liability to pay for it. If Amex don't budge then FOS and Small Claims Court should definitely be considered.

 

[offshore171]

Name the place.

 

[tomo69]

Considering the forum that this is raised I feel it justified to name the hotel so that others aren’t subjected to similar treatment.

 

[oztraveller]

As a courtesy and warning to members, you should let us know the name and location of this establishment...

 

[Danielb56]

Please name the hotel and the name of the manager if you have it.....

 

[exceladdict]

Is the hotel part of a chain? When "ripped off" by a hotel manager directing me to their taxi mates, that chain's parent company/loyalty program compensated me.

 

[Rahamat]

Firstly, the hotel cannot charge your credit card because he does not have the authority. There is no agreement between the hotel and your self that they can charge your credit card for anything and therefore ask Amex to provide your authority to charge to your credit card. I had a similar situation with a hotel in New Zealand and they charged my Diners Club Card. I got Diners Club to reverse the charges and they did. If Amex refuses to do, take them to Financial Ombudsman but I am sure they will reverse because you did not give your authority.
Secondly, I wonder why are you hiding the identity of the hotel and the manager as this should have been done at the first instance. Anyway, do it now.

 

[Le Clair]

Obviously a bad tripadvisor review is coming their way, but this manager thinks she is above the law.

As the property will be disclosed in your Tripadvisor review and you mention the manager, please can you disclose both here so that other AFF members can avoid the establishment.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Nothing further from OP since original posting????

 

[JohnPhelan]

Amex can't reverse the chargeback because the onus is not on you to prove a negative (that you didn't damage anything) - the onus is on the merchant to prove that damage occurred, that it was caused by you, and that you had a liability to pay for it. If Amex don't budge then FOS and Small Claims Court should definitely be considered.

Exactly. And this is certainly not how Amex generally operates. They've always taken the view that Amex is actually an agent of the cardholder, not an agent for the merchant - so Amex generally always takes the word of the cardholder over that of the merchant. If they're not doing so in this case, that's very unusual.

 

[jbman]

Seems like another rant and run thread.

Please close

 

[Renato1]

To avoid being sued for naming the hotel in a public forum, one writes "It is my opinion" or "I opine that Hotel xx_X falsely charged my credit card for,
a. damage that I did not do to ornaments, and
b. damage to paint, and
this is outrageous and
xx_xx_XX and
xx_xx_ ."

When something that is contentious or that someone may dispute the facts about and sue, one writes with lots of "in my opinions" and very long sentences with commas and "ands" so that each long paragraph with numerous sub points is an opinion.

Same thing applies to your Tripadvisor Review.

Without this little trick, I'd have been fired for "showing disrespect" or sued into poverty by people far richer and more powerful than me on numerous occasions, when I abused people for their unjust actions. This is because an opinion is neither right nor wrong, it is just an opinion. Of course, when I could back up my claims and could prove outright lying, I just said outright that they had made false statements and dared them to sue me.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Dr Ralph]

Seems like another rant and run thread.

Please close

Might be a bit harsh.

@Mark3000 does not appear to be a new member. But it does seem strange that you would ask for advice ("we would appreciate advice ") and not respond in any way for 9 days.

 

[Major]

Seems like another rant and run thread.

Please close

Not really. the OP has over 600 posts. Perhaps they are just busy

 

[Ausbt]

Amex have always been pretty good to me on the chargeback side-of-things. Unrelated but a few months back in China I was staggered to be asked to reimburse a hotel for about AUD$3, being the cost of a face-towel that had a lot of unpleasant-looking brown stains upon it. I didn't argue and coughed up the $3 pretty quick. That towel had stubbornly sat on the bathroom floor for three days, being ignored by housekeeping. I guess I can't blame them.

And the stains? Coffee. Very hard to get out too.

 

[Rahamat]

To avoid being sued for naming the hotel in a public forum, one writes "It is my opinion" or "I opine that Hotel xx_X falsely charged my credit card for,
a. damage that I did not do to ornaments, and
b. damage to paint, and
this is outrageous and
xx_xx_XX and
xx_xx_ ."

When something that is contentious or that someone may dispute the facts about and sue, one writes with lots of "in my opinions" and very long sentences with commas and "ands" so that each long paragraph with numerous sub points is an opinion.

Same thing applies to your Tripadvisor Review.

Without this little trick, I'd have been fired for "showing disrespect" or sued into poverty by people far richer and more powerful than me on numerous occasions, when I abused people for their unjust actions. This is because an opinion is neither right nor wrong, it is just an opinion. Of course, when I could back up my claims and could prove outright lying, I just said outright that they had made false statements and dared them to sue me.
Regards,
Renato

No one can sue him for naming the hotel. It is a fact and thus telling the fact is not an offense. Name the hotel and the manager without any fear.

 

[RooFlyer]

Anyway, do it now.

Is that an order?

Please close

Why? Is there a time limit on these things? No all members are glued to their screens.