HNL again

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by maninblack, Oct 13, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Welcome to Australia's leading independent Frequent Flyer and Travel Resource!
Our site contains tons of information that will improve your travel experience.
Joining AFF is fast, simple & ABSOLUTELY FREE -  join now by clicking on the JOIN NOW button, and take immediate advantage of these great BENEFITS.
Once registered, this box will disappear. And you will see fewer advertisements :)
  1. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    2,303
    698
    Regulars here know I love talking about the HNL service :D Here is some news, well actually its little more than rumour at this stage but I was talking to very senior industry person this morning. He told me that HE believes the AC service to SYD-HNL-YVR will have the new flatbeds by middle of next year, but more interestingly that AKL-HNL will be moving to 777's some time next year when they get their further 2 new aircraft and drop another leased 763. This flight may be scheduled to either continue on...YVR, SFO ??? which I somehow doubt, or be better scheduled to hook in with Star alliance carriers into Canada/USA.

    Anyone heard this?

    He also said that given QF has struggled for years to make money SYD-HNL and with the intro of Jetstar, this will be a very interesting test of whether QF will try to compete for the premium sector on this route. He thinks that they will let it go as they will not be able to compete with AC who have the advantage of the on-service to YVR (+ UA into US) and they will just concentrate on the Jetstar tourist $.
     

  2. NM

    NM
    Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    15,778
    1,216
    Flight Map:
    View my flight map
    I don't know any specifics, but what you have been told seems to make sense. AC really see that route as a Australia-Canada route and use HNL as a tech stop since their A340-300 cannot make it non-stop YVR-SYD. They get a good yield of through traffic as well as the benefits of filling up the aircraft by selling discounted into the YVR-HNL and SYD-HNL markets. It seems to be working ok for them.

    QF chose to drop their 767 extension from HNL to Canada (have operated HNL-YVR ad HNL-YYZ in the past) several years ago. At that time they found it hard to compete with AC, and since then AC has improved service (going from 763 to A343) and expect they will move to long-haul J product soon.

    I do think that once AC get enough long-range aircraft (not sure on their 777 deliver schedule) they would like to operate SYD-YVR as non-stop. They would have the non-stop Aus-Canada market to themselves. They would likely then bring the Canada-HNL flights back to regional aircraft such as 767. That will be bad news for people using them on the HNL-SYD route, but I doubt AC see that as a viable stand-alone route. It would be good to see one of the other USA operators pick up HNL-Aus as an extension to USA-HNL services (AA or UA could do it), but not sure just how financially viable it would be.

    But in the meantime I don't see any airline specifically targetting premium travel between Aus and HNL. AC get there by virtue of providing a premium service SYD-YVR that happens to stop in HNL.
     
  3. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    2,303
    698
    As far as I know AC are still primarily using 763's into SYD and only occassionaly slot in an A340. Yes they even did tests some years back with the A340 YVR-SYD and even scheduled it at one stage (don't know if they actually flew it) but it couldn't do the distance with acceptable payload. But according to my contact they will keep the 763's on the run through HNL as it is quite a popular stop-off route both for Canadians and Australians and if not lucrative...at least profitable.

    He also said that UA had looked at the route again many times over the years including a 777 service to SFO via HNL, but just won't bite at it.

    So no news on the NZ 777 "rumour".
     
  4. Standby

    Standby Active Member

    May 25, 2006
    619
    55
    AC have made it clear they have designs on operating SYDLAX nonstop once they have the appropriate aircraft.
    To put a premium product in the market ( flat beds take up more space than old style J seats the therefore there are less J seats to sell) you have to charge more than you do today to make the same money.
    And if yr going to do that you'll make sure yr prime routes which can sustain higher fares will get the new product first, I'm sure YYZ and YUL to LHR and PAR would be 1 and 2. Aust is a nice little earner for them but there isnt the number of high yield customers they need.
    The other thing that keeps the old 767 on the route is they are pretty much fully depreiciated ,so this actually lowers the unit cost per seat and helps them keep fares reasonable..New planes = high fares...SQ have already indicated if they ever get A380s because of the great new product the fares will actually go up(especially J and P). HNL is pretty much resigned to being a longhaul Dom like offering with this criteria
     
  5. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    2,303
    698
    They have but I think that they are going to have difficulty getting approvals. The old "protection" issues. The AC 763's aren't as old as some. First got them in 1993 and I believe some are as new as 2001.
     
  6. NM

    NM
    Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    15,778
    1,216
    Flight Map:
    View my flight map
    What permission do they need? Any Australian, New Zealand, USA or Canadian airline is allowed to operate trans-Pacific. They already serve Aus-Canada so will not be caught by the slow-start requirement (a new entrant can only operate a max of 4 weekly services for the first 12 months). So I am not sure what you mean about having difficulty getting approvals???
     
  7. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
    2,303
    698
    #7 maninblack, Oct 13, 2006
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2006
    I think its a little known act of Parliament called, "The Australian government will do anything it can to stop anyone competing on a level playing field with Qantas Act"

    "Fly from California to Australia ... on Air Canada?

    Air Canada announced Wednesday that it will apply to begin daily non-stop flights between Los Angeles and Sydney. If successful in its application for the new route, Air Canada would take advantage of a November agreement between Canada and the USA that allows airlines from either nation to fly through and pick up customers in the other en route to a third nation. Air Canada’s proposal would have it fly from its Toronto hub to Los Angeles, with continuing service to Sydney. Air Canada says it would work with Star Alliance partners like United and US Airways to coordinate schedules and offer code-shared flights. United operates a hub at Los Angeles, which –- in theory –- could boost connecting options should Air Canada’s L.A.-Sydney leg receive approval.

    Air Canada would begin the flights in the first half of 2007 once it takes delivery of Boeing 777 aircraft it has on order, reports HalifaxLive.com. But, before Air Canada can fly the route, it must overcome regulatory obstacles –- the biggest of which could come from the Australian government. Australia has previously prevented Singapore Airlines from flying between Los Angeles and Sydney. But The Sydney Morning Herald writes that Air Canada’s “move could take pressure off the Federal Government to allow additional competition -- namely Singapore Airlines -- on the capacity-constrained route that accounts for 20% of Qantas's profits.”

    From Canadian source.

    And for interest, makes QF's 763's look pretty shabby. JetPhotos.Net Photo » C-FMXC (CN: 25588) Air Canada Boeing 767-333(ER) by Eric Fortin - AirTeamImages
     
Loading...

Share This Page