Hidden city ticketing... to catch another flight

[Warragul]

If the government of Qatar has a PNR collection program (different to APIS), then the relevant border agency will have information from both PNRs. I'm not sure if they do have one, if not they'd be working towards it. Whether it is actually noticed by anyone or system based interrogation is another matter given the amount of data they would be receiving. If it was brought to a human's attention, it is a scenario that has probably popped up previously, they'd likely realise no threat to the border -of course thats not a fait accompli. The question then is would this agency tell the airline (QR) of what is happening? Bit of a lottery, in theory no - it would breach the ICAO Standard and possibly Qatari law for the use of PNR data (use for 'serious' crime etc), but strange and not pleasant things have happened there before.

It is against the law here for misuse (ie assist airlines with revenue control) of PNR data by Home Affairs/ABF staff.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Nested ticketing is quite common. It shouldn’t raise any border flags unless coming from high-risk drug countries, or people skirting immigration rules. But lots of other factors at play there including when ticket was purchased (for example last minute), who purchased it (passenger or ‘friend’), how the ticket was purchased (cash), length of stay.

With a ten day stopover the nested ticket to ARN does not make the original ticket and destination ‘impossible’ (duplicate booking), nor is it evidence of hidden city ticketing.

 

[p--and--t]

I don't work in Qatari Border control, but I see nothing wrong with a passenger buying a ticket to go to Qatar and have a holiday for 10 days, then changing their mind and flying out earlier to go somewhere else. Thats perfectly legal.

QR might pick it up when the passenger doesn't front 10 days later and be a bit peed off, but that's not a border issue surely?

Is not hidden city ticketing is a commercial issue, not a security issue? There would obviously be negative implications if you were a FF with QR or QR flagged you as being an undesirable passenger for future bookings.

People book nested tickets all the time and border control must be familiar with the situation

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A nested ticket could be a flag for drug running or - more likely - trying to circumvent immigration law. But those would be rare.

 

[Warragul]

Nested ticketing is quite common. It shouldn’t raise any border flags unless coming from high-risk drug countries, or people skirting immigration rules. But lots of other factors at play there including when ticket was purchased (for example last minute), who purchased it (passenger or ‘friend’), how the ticket was purchased (cash), length of stay.

With a ten day stopover the nested ticket to ARN does not make the original ticket and destination ‘impossible’ (duplicate booking), nor is it evidence of hidden city ticketing.

I agree but the distinction between QR and the Qatari government agencies can be a bit blurred. I'm mainly thinking of the aviation regulatory agencies there though.

 

[docjames]

I think the pros/cons (and importantly risks) have been spelled out to the OP who I think is making his/her first venture into AFF. What a great first contribution - sparked some lively interaction.

I hope OP you can come back and give us an update onto how it pans out. Both “in transit” and also post 10days / long term (and in particular future QR travel). And whether transit happened, or had to “enter” Qatar.

Enjoy J DOH-ARN!

 

[Quickstatus]

Enjoy J DOH-ARN!

Someone has to take one for the team!

 

[tdimdad]

Something not asked yet is the Plan B for the nested trip (to ARN). If the initial plan is to arrive in DOH at 4 am and depart to ARN at 4 pm the same day, what if the incoming is 10+ hours late and the connection becomes impossible?

Also, without knowing anything about it, I'm wondering if there is a possibility for Qatar authorities having a list of passengers expected to cross the border (in this case for a long stopover), and if the OP does not enter the country as expected, would that raise a flag?

Just some risk management for our pleasure...

 

[Warragul]

Also, without knowing anything about it, I'm wondering if there is a possibility for Qatar authorities having a list of passengers expected to cross the border (in this case for a long stopover), and if the OP does not enter the country as expected, would that raise a flag?

They will have a list of all those on board with an indicator as to whether they are clearing CIQ in Doha or transiting, thats part of the backend processing when passports are swiped at check in. Not clearing CIQ when 'expected' may raise a flag, although likely to be put down as human error. Clearing when expected to transit is more likely to be looked at more deeply I suspect.

 

[quantumise]

Something not asked yet is the Plan B for the nested trip (to ARN). If the initial plan is to arrive in DOH at 4 am and depart to ARN at 4 pm the same day, what if the incoming is 10+ hours late and the connection becomes impossible?

Also, without knowing anything about it, I'm wondering if there is a possibility for Qatar authorities having a list of passengers expected to cross the border (in this case for a long stopover), and if the OP does not enter the country as expected, would that raise a flag?

Just some risk management for our pleasure...

How is this different to connecting flights without leaving airport with different airlines? Eg FlyDubai etc.

I do have a connecting flight for the same day, it just isn’t with QR, but with AY.

Sure this may represent an issue with QR, but this should not be an immigration issue if I don’t enter the country

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How is this different to connecting flights without leaving airport with different airlines? Eg FlyDubai etc.

I do have a connecting flight for the same day, it just isn’t with QR, but with AY.

Sure this may represent an issue with QR, but this should not be an immigration issue if I don’t enter the country

Yes… unless the tickets are linked or on the same PNR, pax would regularly transit holding two separate tickets.

Qatar may expect the passenger to ‘land’ (enter the country) and would be cleared for that, but not sure if it would be an issue if the passenger chose to remain in transit (and easily explained if it ever got raised).

 

[Seat0B]

As I understand it, it's not really a nested trip in the sense that it would be if you flew
QR Flight 1: ADL-DOH
AY Flight 1: DOH-ARN
AY Flight 2: ARN-DOH
QR Flight 2: DOH-ADL

If I have correctly understood your intentions, you don't have AY Flight 2 booked because you don't intend to come back to DOH as you are instead flying Europe-DXB-ADL. Therefore, you will also need to no show or cancel QR flight 2 as you won't be there to catchit. That's not really a nested trip.

Like @docjames, I will be very interested to see how this plays out when you take the trip. After many trips through the ME, I just can't shake the feeling that someone, somewhere might ask how you plan to be back in Doha to take your onward flight after your "stop over". Or the worry that the airline or immigration or both may take a negative view of your travel plan. I'm probably overly conservative in that, but hey, it's the ME.

 

[quantumise]

As I understand it, it's not really a nested trip in the sense that it would be if you flew
QR Flight 1: ADL-DOH
AY Flight 1: DOH-ARN
AY Flight 2: ARN-DOH
QR Flight 2: DOH-ADL

If I have correctly understood your intentions, you don't have AY Flight 2 booked because you don't intend to come back to DOH as you are instead flying Europe-DXB-ADL. Therefore, you will also need to no show or cancel QR flight 2 as you won't be there to catchit. That's not really a nested trip.

Like @docjames, I will be very interested to see how this plays out when you take the trip. After many trips through the ME, I just can't shake the feeling that someone, somewhere might ask how you plan to be back in Doha to take your onward flight after your "stop over". Or the worry that the airline or immigration or both may take a negative view of your travel plan. I'm probably overly conservative in that, but hey, it's the ME.

I was considering getting a fully refundable one way ARN-DOH just for documentation sake, but figured this was bordering on paranoia, though may still consider this.

 

[Seat0B]

I was considering getting a fully refundable one way ARN-DOH just for documentation sake, but figured this was bordering on paranoia, though may still consider this.

Well I think that would probably help a lot when you cx/no show - you would be able to show QR that you intended to be back in time for your onward flight with them (on 10 August) and then you would give some explanation as to why you now can't do that eg recalled to work or personal health or something, thus avoiding them seeing you as a person who potentially tried to take advantage of the fare structure in a way they don't approve of.

Of course, you would be out of pocket until you got your AY refund, but it might be worth it. Or maybe, I am overly cautious! However, I do need to be able to keep visiting ME with a clear record, so I am willing to do whatever is needed to keep it that way.

 

[Quickstatus]

QR Flight 1: ADL-DOH

It would be if the
#1 is ADL-DOH-EUR with DOH being the "hidden city", and the stopover in DOH being 9-10 days
#2 is DOH-ARN prior to #1 DOH-EUR

What return itinerary are you planning @quantumise ?

 

[Seat0B]

It would be if the
#1 is ADL-DOH-EUR with DOH being the "hidden city"
#2 is DOH-ARN prior to #1 DOH-EUR

Except there is no flight back to DOH to take the DOH-EUR leg? Just really interested in this as it affects me on my trips to DXB.

 

[tdimdad]

Clearing when expected to transit is more likely to be looked at more deeply I suspect.

Once in a while I visit the city while in transit, i.e. enter the country for a short period. So far it's been all OK, though none have been in ME.

But based on the latest comments in this thread, it sounds like nesting the tickets can be done in a clean way, as long as the OP can show they have done preparations to travel a logically sound itinerary (give or take any changes done to it en route).

 

[Quickstatus]

Except there is no flight back to DOH

@quantumise has not revealed the return back into DOH

I don't think the issue will be with Qatar immigration
The issue would be with QR and how they view the missing uplift on the DOH-EUR

 

[quantumise]

To clarify the plan:

Day 1: Australia to DOH in economy on QR (booked on ticket 1). I do not plan to cross immigration and remain airside in transit for 4h until next flight. If necessary to obtain boarding pass landside, I can enter immigration and simply check in again. My passport allows me to enter visa free to Qatar for 90 days (longer than most passports)

Day 1: DOH to ARN award business on AY (booked on ticket 2). I will not return to DOH after this.

Day ~7: Refundable ticket ARN to DOH on AY (booked on ticket 3), which I will cancel for refund and not fly

Day 10: DOH to FRA in economy on QR (booked on ticket 1) - this is the throwaway HCT flight

Day 14: Return from Europe via DXB to Australia on EK (Booked on ticket 4)

 

[Quickstatus]

@quantumise
looks good to me