Heads up about program changes

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We need a thread which details which other OW options there are, and how easy it is to attain status, depending on what sort of flyer you are.

Now that would be a list to see. I'm all for it having reached LTG. I'm searching however, given the ATO CC earn I've found nothing to entice me. No doubt the ATO earn will eventual end so the decision will be easier.
 
Well this is a gem when we consider there has been no suggestion of changing air fares.

Put simply, these changes will mean that you'll earn more Qantas Points and Status credits when you choose more flexible fares. At the same time, we're reducing the Qantas Points you'll earn on our lower fares to reflect your spend.

Flexi fares get more points but pay the same. Why shouldn't flexi fares earn points that reflect the spend. Same spend = same points.

But the great one is the lower fares. Again what we spend on lower fares is not changing. If the points earn is reduced then the cost of the fares needs to reduce as well, if Qantas really wants to reflect the spend. Since the fare is staying the same this is not a justification for reducing points earn.
 
Should always happen when you buy a JQ flight from QF website. I mean it costs more than the JQ website and you're unable to attach the SC bundle.. crazy.

However, the extra cost of booking via the QF roughly matches the extra cost of the included luggage allowance.
 
Another nail in the QF coffin.

How long before Alan Joyce and Friends are sacked?
 
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Well Qantas sent me my email 24 hours after it was announced here on AFF - lol.

No surprise really, and the three month notice is no favour as it's the mandatory warning period for any changes to the QFF program.

I have over 200K in QFF points at present, and while logic might dictate that I should burn those points booking mASA flights on QF metal, to be honest I'd rather use it to fly CX and forego cheap SCs. I didn't use mASA shortcut to regain Platinum with Qantas this year (or ever use mASA to be honest, at any time), so I guess I can't get too cut up about it.

Gotta sting though, for those to whom mASA flights made the difference between basic status and uber status - at a discounted buy-in for SCs. And with the premium cabin SCs being reworked, cheap sale fares aren't going to be much help either, in clawing your way back.

I'll fall just short of P1 too, this year, but at least I got the additional Platinum benefits consolation prize. Nothing great, but better than nothing :)
 
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I'm struggling to understand who benefits from these changes. Certainly doesn't seem to be the frequent flyers who may want to make use of Discounted J fares, *or* those who want to use the OW network for the places that QF has decided not to fly to. "farer" ?

Who has paid for a full Y international? or a Full J?

I fly international long haul on discount J (D or I class). On the routes I fly, status credits earn will remain exactly the same, but points earn will increase by a reasonable amount. So yes, I benefit.

It seems the SC earn for discount J is the same as J now for those types of routes. If you paid the higher price of flexible J, you would also gain extra SCs. But flying those routes on discount J, your SCs will be the same as they are now.

As always, there are winners and losers. It seems that, this time, the winners are those travelling in F and J. Those on discount Y are the losers.
 
Bit surprised to read some pontificating about the relative value of 1 J fare versus NOQ fares. How about we add in the E fares as is only proper? On that flight with the 1 $10000 J seat that Qantas apparently loves there are at least 36 N,O,Q,and E seats. On a route with J for $10000, those cheap seats are going to be between $1500 and $2000. Let's call it $1750. Those 36 seats are worth $63000 in revenue.

If Qantas are more concerned about filling one $10000 seat than they are with filling $63000 worth of seats then they're delusional. No wonder they have problems.

36 people who come back every week and throw $63000 at you are worth just as much as that bloke in the $10000 seat.
 
Am I being cynical or did QF release these changes whilst they still search for the wreckage of MH370?
 
High status customers on cheap tickets will be the biggest losers. They're probably the most expensive customers QF has, and QF appears to be "firing" those customers. A marginal business probably doesn't want a bunch of loss-making customers hanging around.

Those that value their status will have to pony up more money. Those that value their money will go burden VA with their loss-inducing behaviour.
I'm one of those high status customers who got there by "gaming" the system. I took advantage of double status credit offers and marginal Any Seat Awards for the last few years to reach and maintain WP. I almost always fly discount economy - with the notable exception of taking advantage of the business class MASAs.

But I dispute that I'm an expensive customer and that Qantas loses money on my business. In fact, I'd argue that I generate a disproportionately high profit for them.

Consider: Before I got caught up in the tier hunt game and well and truly earned the "wanker" tag, I only ever flew best fare of the day. Hardly any of my flying was with Qantas, certainly hardly any of my self-funded flying. (For the past two years 100% of my travel has been self-funded.)

But since I started to chase SCs I essentially changed from "best fare of the day" to "best Qantas Group fare of the day". To this effect I:

  • consistently flew Qantas domestically over Virgin, even though Qantas's fares are consistently higher.
  • consistently flew Jetstar over Tiger, even though Jetstar's fares are consistently higher, and paid the premium for the Plus bundle on top of that.
  • consistently flew Qantas (either Qantas metal or Qantas codeshare) over other airlines internationally, even though Qantas's fares are consistently higher. For instance, I recently paid $1299 for a discount economy flight to Los Angeles when Air New Zealand was selling its SYD-LAX flights for a touch over $900, a premium of almost 50%. Before that, I paid over $3000 for a Sydney/London/New York/Sydney trip on QF when other airlines (IIRC it was a mix of Virgin Atlantic and Delta or maybe United) were charging a tad a bit over $2000, again a premium of almost 50%.
  • took advantage of several 50% and double status credit offers and marginal ASAs, which meant that rather than paying $400 economy return each for several flights to Perth (the best fare of the day), I paid over $600 business return in cash plus 88,000 in points (which reduced Qantas's liability by around $880 based on a conservative valuation of 1c/point) per trip. Ie, I effectively paid a premium of somewhere around $1280 or more for each of these flights. Yes, I flew in business, but I would normally never fly in business. I'm content in economy. I've even flown Tiger to Perth and found the experience perfectly acceptable.
  • I switched to a credit card that charges me hundreds of dollars in fees simply so that my spend will generate points - Qantas of course sells these points to the bank and earns real dollars that way, and "buys" these points back from me in a way that costs them a pittance in real dollars.

The marginal increase in revenue (or decrease in liabilities, which has the same effect on the bottom line) as a result of this - quite frankly utilitarian nonsensical - behaviour is high. Increase in revenue/decrease in liabilities: thousands of dollars.

The corresponding marginal increase in cost is low. (Remembering that substantial fixed costs - such as building and outfitting a lounge - are effectively sunk costs.) A dozen or so entries into the lounge where I consume a few dollars worth of food and drink per visit. A business class meal on those flight when I leverage the MASAs. I'm not displacing a full-fare paying passenger because with Qantas's "65% market share" line-in-the-sand and the relative scarcity of MASAs in the first place there's always room in the business class section anyway, so there's no corresponding loss in full fare business class revenue. Increase in costs: hundreds of dollars.

Probably the only times I've lost Qantas money is the two times I've taken advantage of the First Class international lounge on a cheap Jetstar pseudo-domestic ticket. I paid about $80 for each of these tickets and - factoring in the incremental cost of my lounge meal - may have lost Qantas a few dozen dollars on these two occasions. (It's also possible that my upcoming American Airlines status run may lose Qantas something, depending on the cross-airline transfer costings.) But considering I spent thousands of dollars to get to that point I don't think they should complain about that. Because net increase in profit as a result of my participation in the QFF snipe hunt: thousands of dollars.

But will I continue with this behaviour as a result of these latest changes that further devalue the loyalty scheme? No. I will go back to best economy fare of the day, which will rarely be Qantas.

That's how these changes will personally affect me. Everyone's mileage will obviously vary.


Speaking more generally, these changes seem to have been implemented on the assumption that relatively few people will change their purchasing behaviour adversely as a result, thereby generating fewer liabilities/costs for Qantas for the same travel/revenue. And/or it assumes that relatively many people will pay an even higher premium for the same benefits - eg changing from a partner airline flight to a Qantas flight, or a sale fare to a flexible fare, or from economy to business, in order to chase points and status credits. If these assumptions are correct, then the changes will be to Qantas's financial benefit. If they aren't, it will only further erode their profitability and long-term brand loyalty.
 
Perth has finally seen some (relative) benefit from having QFi services disappear!
Our partner earn rates basically stay the same and are higher than the east coast, even though the flights are shorter. I figure it's QF's way of acknowledging that we can't fly in QF codes, unlike much of the east coast.

The partner cuts have been coming ever since we saw the MH and then QR earning tables; if partners are offering routings that are even marginally competitive with QF coded routings then they're penalised. I can't wait to see the points earning for partners, but don't be shocked when they follow the MH/QR lead. At least the partner classes are still as "simple" as they were before; no sub-classes like for QF coded flights.

It's interesting that international Economy earn has gone from the current system where everything except Y is lumped in the bottom rung, to having some actually bookable classes in the now better middle rung, with the bottom rung dropping, but applying to less buckets. I consider this a win.
On the other end of the spectrum, basically all bookable Economy classes are in the bottom rung, which has dropped, and there is no middle rung like for international flights. I consider this a loss.
 
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Edit: aren't you the one that travels the world in style based off the back of millions of Amex points? You're probably exactly the customer that Amex and QF don't want.

Ahh...? If Amex and QF didn't want them as a customer, why would Amex buy the points from QF for any other reason but to attract the millions of $ required for the customer to earn the millions of points? Same as why QF would make the millions of points available to Amex in the first place?
 
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I've always been in a similar position - fly QF whenever I can and if they don't service the region, I'll then choose OW. But as they're reducing where they actually do fly, it makes it even more difficult.

I fully appreciate they want us to spend our $$$ with QF, hence the reduction in SCs for OW carriers, but if you really have no other choice (QF doesn't service that route), it's hardly your fault, yet you're penalising us for selecting a OW carrier over *A etc.

Loyalty goes both ways - a great pity that seems to have been (all but) forgotten by the bean counters upstairs.

It's not all a loss for QF.

They're not handing out points and SC's to QFF members flying on other OW carriers at a loss. The other carrier has to pay QF the cost of those. So there's really no point QF penalising us for something that's unavoidable by virtue of their restricted routes.
 
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