General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[TheRealTMA]

Well AZ has now got provisional approval from the TGA as a booster.

TGA provisionally approves AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine as booster dose

The TGA has provisionally approved the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine, Vaxzevria, for use as a booster in individuals aged 18 years and over.

www.tga.gov.au

Harm to AstraZeneca jab’s reputation ‘probably killed thousands’

Scientist who worked on jab criticises ‘bad behaviour’ by scientists and politicians who damaged reputation of Covid vaccine

www.theguardian.com

 

[drron]

And wealthy countries are contributing to many more deaths in the underdeveloped countries by denying adequate and equitable vaccine distribution.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Should sell my drug company shares. It's going to be a pretty rude shock when it's realised 3 jabs a year isn't needed and competition arrives...really keen to see the stats on Novavax as a booster.

Don't forget the vaccine that's supposed to defeat all variants of COVID! That being said as a immunocompromised three doser, I'm waiting to get my hands on the Novavax booster when that becomes available in the next month or so. I hear one of the side effects is you turn into a world number one tennis player!

Well AZ has now got provisional approval from the TGA as a booster.

TGA provisionally approves AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine as booster dose

The TGA has provisionally approved the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine, Vaxzevria, for use as a booster in individuals aged 18 years and over.

www.tga.gov.au

Good to see the TGA paying more than just lip service to this excellent vaccine. Yes Pfizer is great, but if I were getting boosted I'd ask myself what extra protection is the vaccine gonna deliver for me? If all you get is Pfizer, the most you can hope for is a build up of antibodies. If you get a different vaccine from what you got before, your body will learn a new way to defeat the virus too!

And wealthy countries are contributing to many more deaths in the underdeveloped countries by denying adequate and equitable vaccine distribution.
View attachment 270756

Is there a single shred of evidence that the reason countries aren't meeting their target of vaccination due to the lack of vaccine supply or distribution? Russia has had their Sputnik vaccine for well over a year now and yet they are nowhere near the targets per this map. The United States was amongst the first in the world to get the vaccine and have several choices available. They've been giving them out like candy at pharmacies and yet they are still nowhere to be seen on meeting the goal. The fact of the matter is, there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy around the world and unless and until that is defeated, this ain't gonna change.

Another key question no one is willing to talk about is how are we going to vaccine the millions of other animals susceptible to COVID? Even if we live in a perfect world with near complete global vaccination, this virus will continue to be passed around livestock and other animals, and I have little doubts a mutation will emerge and that it may come back later to bite us.

-RooFlyer88

 

[NM]

And wealthy countries are contributing to many more deaths in the underdeveloped countries by denying adequate and equitable vaccine distribution.
View attachment 270756

The unexpected part of that chart is that the USA is RED. I expected Green or possibly Yellow, but did not expect it to be Red. If the USA can't get itself to the target, how can nations with limited financial capacity to purchase vaccines every hope to get there?

 

[drron]

It seems the answer to both Russia and the USA having poor uptake is the fact that it became political. Here is an informative article on the Russia situation.

How COVID-19 vaccination is proceeding in Russia

On December 4, 2020, Russia launched large-scale vaccination against the novel coronavirus with its Sputnik V vaccine. Starting from January 18, by...

www.rbth.com

They certainly went to some lengths to encourage vaccination.

In the fall, with the onset of the second wave of coronavirus, Muscovites aged over 65, students over 18 years old, as well as people with chronic conditions, had their travel cards blocked, so they could no longer use public transport for free or at reduced fares, but only at full price. On December 29, 2020, Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin announced that all citizens could enjoy their benefits again if they got vaccinated against COVID-19.

In the Sakhalin Region, those who get vaccinated against COVID-19 will be issued with a badge that will allow them not to wear face masks in public places, reported RIA Novosti, citing the press service of the local governor, Valery Limarenko.

And yet, only 38 percent of Russians are planning to get the jab, with 93 percent of them aged 45 and over, according to a VTsIOM poll of December 23, 2020.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Where there is any hastening due to covid it is highly unlikely that those people would have otherwise lived for decades, days at best.

Covid is not only killing those who were about to pass. ( For some that may not have been by a long period, but with others it will be years and sometimes many years that they have lost )

Covid is not just killing those who would have in the main died within days anyway. It is as we are all aware disproportionately killing those who are more susceptible to it, but the majority of them would not have died anyway within days. Also most people who die with Covid die four or more weeks after contracting Covid.

 

[Lynda2475]

Your opinion only, as the numbers of excess deaths simply do support your position at all.

In Australia there has not been an increase in overall deaths due to covid, in fact no excess deaths but a decline on pre-covid. Only a handful of deaths without comorbidities.

You are free to continue your pessimistic outlook, thankfully majority of the country has moved on and wont succumb to the unwarranted guilt trip you want them to go on.

 

[drron]

The problem with covid is the media and "experts' have a vested interest in stressing the serious effects of covid. Here is a study showing the high incidence of Cardiovascular disease after covid.

Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19 - Nature Medicine

Individuals with COVID-19 are at increased long-term risk for a wide range of cardiovascular disorders, even for individuals who were not hospitalized during the acute phase of the infection.

www.nature.com

Now if you read the article you will see that this is mainly in hospitalised patients particularly those needing ICU.
And there is one fact that they do not mention. That is it has been well known that there is a spike in cardiovascular disease after infections for many years. In fact for influenza this was first reported in 1932.

Here is an article from 2004 about the increase in cardiovascular problems after the flu but listing 22 different infections that have been shown to do the same.

Influenza and Cardiovascular Disease: Is There a Causal Relationship?

There is mounting evidence in support of a significant role for influenza infection in the development of atherosclerosis and the triggering of its complications. Here we review the biologic basis of this relationship, with special emphasis on the pro-inflammatory ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

At least with the flu it has been shown to be greatly reduced by vaccination. Too early yet to know if the covid vaccines will do the same.

Heart Disease & Stroke

People with heart disease and those who have had a stroke are at higher risk for developing serious complications from flu.

www.cdc.gov

And an interesting view from the USA. Excess deaths in the USA are particularly high in the 10-39 year old group. It is far in excess of their covid mortality. One of the accepted reasons is a large increase in drug overdose deaths. This is particularly so in San Francisco where in the last 2 years the drug overdose death numbers are roughly twice the rate of total covid deaths there.

Overdoses far exceed COVID deaths in a San Francisco district. The mayor has a plan

San Francisco Mayor London Breed's recent emergency declaration will allow the city to fast-track social services to address drug overdoses and crime.

www.wfdd.org

So the only way you can assert that Australia's covid mortality in the elderly with comorbidities in the majority shortened their life is to assume that none of them would have caught an infection in the absence of covid. Obviously untrue.

For over a century Pneumonia was known as the "old man's friend."
The old man’s friend - Pneumonia

 

[TheRealTMA]

There's also this about Pfizer. Ever wondererd why many people oppose Big Pharma and don't trust them?

Pfizer accused of pandemic profiteering as profits double

Drugmaker makes $37bn in vaccine sales and predicts bumper year ahead from Covid jabs and pill

www.theguardian.com

 

[ketsuzei]

Covid is not just killing those who would have in the main died within days anyway. It is as we are all aware disproportionately killing those who are more susceptible to it, but the majority of them would not have died anyway within days. Also most people who die with Covid die four or more weeks after contracting Covid.

You could say pretty much the same thing about influenza or anything else that kills the elderly.

If only [insert cause of death] hadn’t come along, they would have lived longer. Well, duh.

 

[mviy]

That being said as a immunocompromised three doser, I'm waiting to get my hands on the Novavax booster when that becomes available in the next month or so. I hear one of the side effects is you turn into a world number one tennis player!

I’m not immunocompromised. I have had 2 Vaxevria and 1 Comirnaty. I think I may have Spikevax next. Although they are both mRNA, Comirnaty and Spikevax still have their differences.

 

[drron]

I’m not immunocompromised. I have had 2 Vaxevria and 1 Comirnaty. I think I may have Spikevax next. Although they are both mRNA, Comirnaty and Spikevax still have their differences.

If we are to have a 4th shot I will go for Novavax. I had 2 AZ followed by Moderna booster.

 

[jrfsp]

Australians to need three doses of COVID vaccine to be considered 'fully vaccinated'

Australia's definition of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 is set to change, with people aged over 16 years now only considered "up to date" with their vaccinations if they have had their booster shots.

www.abc.net.au

"Australia's definition of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 is set to change, with people aged over 16 years now only considered "up to date" with their vaccinations if they have had their booster shots.

The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) has recommended moving away from the term "fully vaccinated".

ATAGI's new advice was endorsed by the national cabinet at a meeting this afternoon, but will not apply to international travellers arriving in Australia.

Under the new rules, if it has been longer than six months since someone's last vaccine dose and they are eligible for a booster they will now be considered "overdue"."

Didnt see that coming.....i personally dont like the sound of "up to date"....suggest that the booster cycle will never end. ALso the irony of it not applying to intl arrivals, after the recent sagas!!!!

 

[Must...Fly!]

Not "up to date" after 6 months?

Good luck with that

 

[jase05]

New advice to keep Australians"up to
date' with COVID-19 vaccinations
The Australian Government has today received
updated advice from the medical experts of the
Australian Technical Advisory Group on
Immunisation (ATAGI) about COVID-19 vaccination
status.
The experts at ATAGI have today updated their advice
regarding what constitutes being 'up to date' with
regards to COVID-19 vaccines.
Under the new advice, a person is 'up to date' if they
have completed all the doses recommended for their
age and individual health needs.
ATAGI recommend that everyone aged 16 years and
older receive a booster dose three months after their
primary course, to maintain the best protection and an
"up to date' status.
Further, ATAGI has advised that if it has been longer
than six months since a person's primary course and
they haven't had a booster, they will no longer be
considered 'up to date' and instead will be considered
'overdue'
ATAGI has noted that this advice is provided for the
management of the COVID-19 pandemic here in
Australia and does not cover the vaccination
requirements relating to international border settings.

 

[Lynda2475]

Not "up to date" after 6 months?

Only applies if you havent had your booster (dose 3) within 6 months of your second dose. The advice says nothing about needing a 4th dose 6 months after your 3rd.

 

[mviy]

I'm pleased that they are giving 6 months. I'll probably have my next dose when the 6 months is nearly up unless the Premier mandates I get it earlier to do what I need to do.

 

[drron]

I really don't want a fourth dose of the current vaccines. There is already work going on with the next generation of mRNA vaccines. In fact this began pre covid at least at the Imperial College,London. That research was suspended as most of that team was seconded to the Oxford team and AZ. However it is now in full swing again at various institutions around the world.

Beyond COVID-19: How mRNA technology could transform how we treat disease - UBC News

Dr. Anna Blakney, assistant professor at UBC’s Michael Smith Laboratories and school of biomedical engineering, describes how mRNA technology could transform how we treat disease.

news.ubc.ca

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Your opinion only, as the numbers of excess deaths simply do support your position at all. In Australia there has not been an increase in overall deaths due to covid, in fact no excess deaths but a decline on pre-covid.

The stats for excess deaths have not yet been released yet for the Living with Covid Period.

Once again in my post I was specifically talking about the Living with Covid period. So pre-covid is irrelevant as my post was not on the whole pandemic, but just on the Living with Covid Period.

ie

Provisional Mortality Statistics, Jan - Dec 2023

Provisional deaths data for measuring changes in patterns of mortality

www.abs.gov.au

Do you have any evidence at that the majority of people dying now with Covid, were already dying from another cause and have as you claimed only died days earlier at best due to having contracted Covid?

Only a handful of deaths without comorbidities.

Irrelevant to my post as it was specifically on those with comorbidities.

You are free to continue your pessimistic outlook,

Why pessimistic? There was nothing pessimistic about my post. I clearly endorsed the Living with Covid approach in my post, and have done so since it was announced.

All significant actions have pros and cons.

thankfully majority of the country has moved on and wont succumb to the unwarranted guilt trip you want them to go on.

It is not guilt, it is just respecting that they have passed, and recognition that there are pros and cons. The Living with Covid Strategy has more pros than cons which is why I have always been an advocate of it. I feel no guilt for backing the right approach.

What I did state is that those who have died with Covid should not be just written of by stating that they would have died anyway, and in your case wrongly asserting that most who have died in this Living with Covid would only have at best have lived days longer.

 

[drron]

The stats for excess deaths have not yet been released yet for the Living with Covid Period.

Once again in my post I was specifically talking about the Living with Covid period. So pre-covid is irrelevant as my post was not on the whole pandemic, but just on the Living with Covid Period.

ie

Provisional Mortality Statistics, Jan - Dec 2023

Provisional deaths data for measuring changes in patterns of mortality

www.abs.gov.au

Do you have any evidence at that the majority of people dying now with Covid, were already dying from another cause and have as you claimed only died days earlier at best due to having contracted Covid?





Irrelevant to my post as it was specifically on those with comorbidities.



Why pessimistic? There was nothing pessimistic about my post. I clearly endorsed the Living with Covid approach in my post, and have done so since it was announced.

All significant actions have pros and cons.



It is not guilt, it is just respecting that they have passed, and recognition that there are pros and cons. The Living with Covid Strategy has more pros than cons which is why I have always been an advocate of it. I feel no guilt for backing the right approach.

What I did state is that those who have died with Covid should not be just written of by stating that they would have died anyway, and in your case wrongly asserting that most who have died in this Living with Covid would only have at best have lived days longer.

Read my post 2448. You assertions that they would have lived many months longer also can not be proven.