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Freedom of speech

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Hvr

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Nobody is forcing you to adopt a particular religion, Hvr.

I may not be forced but am repeatedly suffering door knockers who want to convert me. No matter what I say, they know they have the right to refuse to abide by my 'Do not knock' sign. And they insist that they can start their spiel even if I ask them to leave.

I don't proselytise to them and want them to respect my right not to suffer from their harassment.
 

DC3

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... Saying someone is going to hell is not discrimination ...
Well, if what I’m reading on the web at the moment is anything to go by, he will have plenty of free time on his hands to discuss his religion within his church.
 

drron

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I may not be forced but am repeatedly suffering door knockers who want to convert me. No matter what I say, they know they have the right to refuse to abide by my 'Do not knock' sign. And they insist that they can start their spiel even if I ask them to leave.

I don't proselytise to them and want them to respect my right not to suffer from their harassment.
But I am guessing that you don't read Folau's instagram posts.

I do wonder how many tender minds would be damaged if Folau's posts were ignored.Surely the overwhelming attack on him has meant that those views must have reached many thousands or indeed millions more than if ignored.
 

DC3

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But I am guessing that you don't read Folau's instagram posts.

I do wonder how many tender minds would be damaged if Folau's posts were ignored.Surely the overwhelming attack on him has meant that those views must have reached many thousands or indeed millions more than if ignored.
And apparently he is a “star”?
 

JohnK

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As a young child in Aglo-centric Australia I would bet real money that you were racially vilified because of your Greek background. Did you find that to be 'freedom of speech' or do you see it now as hate speech?

Your daughter, whom you and your wife love dearly, will sadly be subjected to racial and gender abuse as she grows up. Will you say to her that she has to accept it because the other person's 'freedom of speech' is more important than her feelings? Her physical and or emotional safety?

I don't think you would tolerate it for a second because your daughter is the most important person in your life and you would fight, both literally and figuratively for her safety and well-being.

Your freedom of religion ends where it impinges on my freedom to choose whether or not I follow a religion. Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.
As mentioned I never minded the racial banter. I loved being called a wog by a convict. And now I consider myself Australian and if you didn't see my name you wouldn't think otherwise. I loved that part of growing up.

My parents used to laugh at home telling us some foreman at work was saying "English, English" when migrants were talking to another. Now you can't say a thing otherwise it's considered bullying and discrimination. "English, English" was a good step and we got that one wrong somewhere along the way.

My daughter is going to learn to handle herself and not be worried about some name calling. They will tease her. Are they your grandparents in reference to her mum and dad? Your dad is fat.

Religion is a strange one. You cannot discriminate against someone's religious beliefs. It's also not an offence to state one's religious belief unless of course they start preaching their religious beliefs without your consent and bullying or harrassing you and with that one I agree with you.
 
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love_the_life

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As mentioned I never minded the racial banter. I loved being called a wog by a convict. And now I consider myself Australian and if you didn't see my name you wouldn't think otherwise. I loved that part of growing up.

My parents used to laugh at home telling us some foreman at work was saying "English, English" when migrants were talking to another. Now you can't say a thing otherwise it's considered bullying and discrimination. "English, English" was a good step and we got that one wrong somewhere along the way.

My daughter is going to learn to handle herself and not be worried about some name calling. They will tease her. Are they your grandparents in reference to her mum and dad? Your dad is fat.

Religion is a strange one. You cannot discriminate against someone's religious beliefs. It's also not an offence to state one's religious belief unless of course they start preaching their religious beliefs without your consent and bullying or harrassing you and with that one I agree with you.
Being taken for someone older is not that uncommon. My nephew's bride to be was asked if she had brought her father with her when she was buying her dress (er, no, it was the groom though he is 15 years older than her), my friend was asked about her father when her husband was in hospital. In Japan I was asked twice if I was travelling with my mother.....it was my friend who is 7 years older! Perhaps I look very young???? Or perhaps not. :eek:
 

JohnK

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Well, if what I’m reading on the web at the moment is anything to go by, he will have plenty of free time on his hands to discuss his religion within his church.
What he said is still not discrimination. It may not be appropriate but it's still not discrimination.

I believe Rugby Australia got the high level breach wrong. Will be intetesting to see if Folau chooses to fight in the Supreme court. If not, then yes he will have more time to devote to the Church.
 

CaptJCool

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What he said is still not discrimination. It may not be appropriate but it's still not discrimination.

I believe Rugby Australia got the high level breach wrong. Will be intetesting to see if Folau chooses to fight in the Supreme court. If not, then yes he will have more time to devote to the Church.
Looks like the fight moves onto the courts. Announced tonight no confidence in RAs Kangsroo Court
 

Hvr

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This idea that people are answerable to their employer 24/7 is just dumb. Nobody could live up to that standard.

Federal public servants are held accountable for their public comments both on and off duty:

Section 13(5) requires APS employees to comply with lawful and reasonable directions. These can include agency policies on the use of social media for work or personal purposes.
Taken together, the Code, APS Values and the Act impose expectations and obligations on employees. Employees must act in a way that does not undermine the public’s confidence in them and the ability of their agency to act impartially and to deliver government services professionally and without bias. This clearly applies to activities at work and can capture conduct during non-work hours.
 

drron

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Being taken for someone older is not that uncommon. My nephew's bride to be was asked if she had brought her father with her when she was buying her dress (er, no, it was the groom though he is 15 years older than her), my friend was asked about her father when her husband was in hospital. In Japan I was asked twice if I was travelling with my mother.....it was my friend who is 7 years older! Perhaps I look very young???? Or perhaps not. :eek:
On one trip to Japan we were travelling with our young son and mrsdrron's mother.On the train to Mikimoto Pearl Island mrsdrron and our son were sitting on one side I and my MIL were sitting opposite.A young Japanese guy was sitting next to mrsdrron and asked if he could practice his English.That is never a problem.
So he started by nodding in my direction and saying"So you are travelling with your mummy and daddy."
"No.That is my husband and my mother."
Oh,big mistake,big mistake."
 

JessicaTam

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On one trip to Japan we were travelling with our young son and mrsdrron's mother.On the train to Mikimoto Pearl Island mrsdrron and our son were sitting on one side I and my MIL were sitting opposite.A young Japanese guy was sitting next to mrsdrron and asked if he could practice his English.That is never a problem.
So he started by nodding in my direction and saying"So you are travelling with your mummy and daddy."
"No.That is my husband and my mother."
Oh,big mistake,big mistake."
Did @mrs.dr.ron proceed to teach him some new english words? ;)
 

Max Samuels

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Federal public servants are held accountable for their public comments both on and off duty:
In the context of this discussion, if a public servant was sacked for saying what this guy said, there would be so much outrage and possibly a trip to the High Court.
 

MEL_Traveller

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In the context of this discussion, if a public servant was sacked for saying what this guy said, there would be so much outrage and possibly a trip to the High Court.
It would be same same. If a junior public servant (inconsequential in the scheme of things) posted similar comments, with no impact, there might be grounds for unfair dismissal.

If the secretary of a department or other senior official went around posting those views, there would potentially be grounds for dismissal, not only because of the damaging effects of the comments, but potentially also because of their ability to do their job impartially.
 

theblank

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I still don't understand this whole debate.
Its fairly simple. The rainbow flag waver pc elites (lets throw in social marxists too) sole aim is to shut down everyone that opposes their views, under the banner of being 'inclusive'

Israel Folau has always been a high profile target because he is
- famous
- known for voting No
- and being on the payroll of qantas.

which has the likes of Alan Joyce rubbing his hands with glee, for the moment IF menitons the h word just one more time.

IF has become the poster boy for 'homophobic christians persecution of homosexuals' despite the fact that the guy himself carries no hate (or fear) for anyone. He may well be one of the nicest sports heroes we have ever had, and actually supports gay rugby events which is well documented.

For sure the activists have targeted in the past Wedding cake bakers, Campsites, Coopers Brewery (who didnt even support the No vote), White magazine (sent broke), but Israel Folau is the big fish. If they can shut him down, then they can shut everyone down.

The end game, IMO, is they wont let up until the H word is struck out from the bible, and/or someone of note to apologise and say the biblical text is wrong, and H is not a sin.






- He denounces Virgin Mary and icons as idol worship and neither of those is true
this is a biblical truth, IF would be right if he is saying that.

However I do realise that this contradicts Roman Catholic Church doctrine, but one needs to remember that Israel Folau is not a Roman Catholic, and the Pope/Church are not the leaders or doctrine makers for Christianity.
 

theblank

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If he'd left homosexuals off the list I doubt there would have been any publicity.
Excactly my point above. Its not Israel Folaus list, its Pauls list in 1 Cor 6:9-11
If Israel was to type out that verse and leave the H word out, then he would be compromising his beleif, that amongst other things the biblical text is inerrant.

However thats exactly what *they* want, that word to be removed from the text.
 

MEL_Traveller

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...under the banner of being 'inclusive'

... and/or someone of note to apologise and say the biblical text is wrong, and H is not a sin.
No one is arguing against inclusivity. For an example close to home just look at the posting rules here on AFF. We are bound by the rules if we wish to keep posting. Folau is equally bound by the rules if he wishes to keep playing.

As for the second point. Science has disproved homosexuality as a sin. It's not a choice.

And as we are all made in God's image, it therefore can't be a sin.
 
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love_the_life

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Excactly my point above. Its not Israel Folaus list, its Pauls list in 1 Cor 6:9-11
If Israel was to type out that verse and leave the H word out, then he would be compromising his beleif, that amongst other things the biblical text is inerrant.

However thats exactly what *they* want, that word to be removed from the text.
As it's Paul's list it cannot be called the word of god I would opine.
 

burmans

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As it's Paul's list it cannot be called the word of god I would opine.
Of course, it's an interpretation. Last I looked there were 30 to 50 thousand variants of Christianity and guess what, the main reason they differ is around ''interpretation' of the bible. So firstly it's not gods word, it's an interpretation of gods word and Christians themselves disagree so much on this interpretation they have 10s of thousands of variants. And yet the arguments continues to run that we should accept this interpretation of gods word as absolute despite the evidence that Christians themselves don't agree with this theory?
 
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