Free lunch? More like a cheap eat?

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wil

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G'day,

It's been a while. The main reason my eyes were opened to the possibilities of FF was because of an article I read in the Rolling Stones magazine in late August in 2015, it was about prominent FF mogul Ben Shlappig AKA Lucky. Link here

it talks about a 14 year old who quickly learned the ropes around FF and has now accumulated an incredible amount of miles. So my question is, Is the idea of building up points like that I.e flying across the country every weekend, nothing but a romance? Does the geographical location in Australia bring down the frugality of this pursuit? And is it far fetched to aspire to Lucky's success?

lot's of questions :-| I look forward to your responses
wil
 
It's certainly possible in Australia!

Although the options are limited here compared to flying around (say) Europe or the United States, there are still many interesting places to visit and many reasonably priced airfares out there to get you there.

I'm based in Sydney and make weekend trips across the country fairly regularly. There are many cities served by direct flights from Sydney - BNE, MEL, CFS, CBR, ADL, TSV, OOL, PER... the list goes on. I've done weekend trips to all of those places. Not to mention, New Zealand is just a 3 hour flight away! I've done weekends in Auckland, Wellington, Queenstown and Christchurch. Flights can be pretty cheap on sale, and you earn a minimum of 40 status credits per trip.

It can be a somewhat expensive hobby in Australia, but there are still plenty of cheap fares out there ($30 or less) if you book well in advance and fly low-cost. If you don't mind flying Jetstar or Tiger, you can get some extremely cheap fares during the Jetstar Friday fare frenzy (4-8pm Fridays) or Tiger's Saturday Flight Fever sales (12-4pm Saturdays). I recently picked up a $29 fare to the Whitsundays and an $18 flight to Melbourne.
 
It can be a somewhat expensive hobby in Australia, but there are still plenty of cheap fares out there ($30 or less) if you book well in advance and fly low-cost. If you don't mind flying Jetstar or Tiger, you can get some extremely cheap fares during the Jetstar Friday fare frenzy (4-8pm Fridays) or Tiger's Saturday Flight Fever sales (12-4pm Saturdays). I recently picked up a $29 fare to the Whitsundays and an $18 flight to Melbourne.

I've seen these deals and they are truly great in terms of price but they aren't too helpful in terms of FF, are they?
 
I've seen these deals and they are truly great in terms of price but they aren't too helpful in terms of FF, are they?

Admittedly, no they aren't. But it really depends what you're aiming to get out of your frequent flyer membership. If you want status, then you'll need to fly on paid QF or VA fares (within Australia, anyway). But if you just want the points, they become somewhat superfluous if you can get a paid fare for the same price as the taxes on a redemption booking. :rolleyes:

My point is that the dream of flying around the country every weekend for not too much money can be more than just a pipedream. :)

You have flown Tiger Mattg? :shock:

OK, so have I :oops:

I have a couple of times. I can't say that I'm a huge fan, but I occasionally fly them if they're the best option.

I've used Tiger to get a Jetstar price beat much more than I've actually bought one of their fares.
 
Although I love flying, and admire people who manage to do amazing things to get points / status / etc, that is certainly not for me.

You could get a job as a cleaner in Australia and earn as much dollar value in a couple of weeks as what it takes via these shenanigans to aquire in a year of almost fulltime devotion.

I love status, but truly, if you work a job and buy a J ticket without ever gaining such "status", your travel experience is not a whole lot different to people who have spent gazzillions, either in hours of "gaming the system" or actual travel dollars to gain status and amassing of points to redeem a ticket.

Each to their own, but the hours people spend like him would turn my fun in this "sport" into a working nightmare :)
 
Indeed. If you're getting status as cheaply as possible the airlines certainly know it. There are many levels within a particular status band.
 
Indeed. If you're getting status as cheaply as possible the airlines certainly know it. There are many levels within a particular status band.

Care to explain? I was not aware of this.

Me too. What do the levels represent? Differing levels of service, award availability?
 
Me too. What do the levels represent? Differing levels of service, award availability?

I suspect it's more to do with how important you are to the airline. Yes you might be a platinum, but if you reached that level by credit card promotions and award flying you are not going to be anywhere near as valuable to the airline as a person whose BIS flying involves a weekly full fare F class long haul international flight. Whilst yes they won't deliberately provide bad service, if the choice is to help the platinum via the game, or the F flyer, despite both being at the same level, the F Flyer will be considered more valuable to the airline, and thus more likely to get the special treatment.

As for "Free lunch", it's a hobby, much like some people collect cars, others build wooden cabinets, FFing / collecting airports is as valid as any other hobby.
 
.. There are many levels within a particular status band..

If this were true, then their staff would need to have access to a specific "grading" or ranking for every pax so as to know this. Other than conjecture, is there any evidence that this is the reality??
 
I have built a modest points balance in many programs. I don't know many tricks. I am a hoarder by nature which is not good in todays climate.

Hoping to earn more from signon bonuses and then spend retirement travelling everywhere with my wife.
 
I have built a modest points balance in many programs. I don't know many tricks. I am a hoarder by nature which is not good in todays climate.

Hoping to earn more from signon bonuses and then spend retirement travelling everywhere with my wife.

Sounds like a stellar plan JohnK
 
I suspect it's more to do with how important you are to the airline. Yes you might be a platinum, but if you reached that level by credit card promotions and award flying you are not going to be anywhere near as valuable to the airline as a person whose BIS flying involves a weekly full fare F class long haul international flight.

Slight clarification necessary....

Someone who amasses mountains of points via credit card promotions is actually a VERY valuable customer to the frequent flyer program. In fact, in many cases a credit-card earner with no status may be more valuable than a platinum member. (of course a weekly full F pax is pretty darn valuable lol).

QFF made over $1.4 billion last year in billings - primarily from credit card points.



If this were true, then their staff would need to have access to a specific "grading" or ranking for every pax so as to know this. Other than conjecture, is there any evidence that this is the reality??

They do - it's built into their Altea system. Do a search on AFF for "PCV".
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Slight clarification necessary....

Someone who amasses mountains of points via credit card promotions is actually a VERY valuable customer to the frequent flyer program. In fact, in many cases a credit-card earner with no status may be more valuable than a platinum member. (of course a weekly full F pax is pretty darn valuable lol).

QFF made over $1.4 billion last year in billings - primarily from credit card points.

A further clarification, I'm talking things like sign on bonuses (and then closing the card the second the points earning requirements have been met), or other methods which will amass points or SC's very quickly without actually earning the airline money.
I'm not talking about the person whom puts their spend via their CC's earning points in doing so (and thus earning money for the FF program).

Edit: I expect the members whom earn enough to satisfy the ~ requirements (what ever they may be for the airline in question), and then solely fly partner airlines thus earning points without actually stepping foot on an aircraft belonging to the airline running the program wouldn't exactly rate highly for that airline either. In fact I'm sure we could even coin a term for that - paper Platinum (or gold / silver etc) - A person whom has a high status on paper, but didn't actually "earn" that status.
 
A further clarification, I'm talking things like sign on bonuses (and then closing the card the second the points earning requirements have been met), or other methods which will amass points or SC's very quickly without actually earning the airline money.
I'm not talking about the person whom puts their spend via their CC's earning points in doing so (and thus earning money for the FF program).

Edit: I expect the members whom earn enough to satisfy the ~ requirements (what ever they may be for the airline in question), and then solely fly partner airlines thus earning points without actually stepping foot on an aircraft belonging to the airline running the program wouldn't exactly rate highly for that airline either. In fact I'm sure we could even coin a term for that - paper Platinum (or gold / silver etc) - A person whom has a high status on paper, but didn't actually "earn" that status.

Actually - the person you describe - "sign on bonuses (and then closing the card the second the points earning requirements have been met), or other methods which will amass points..." in fact earns the airline a TON of money. These folks are immensely profitable for QFF. (now - they may not be profitable for the bank, but the bank applies an actuarial process across the entire customer base).

The banks buy the points from QFF. It's a relatively simple transactional arrangement.

As far as your second example goes - those folks are also highly profitable (not as much as credit card'ers), as the partner airlines also purchase the points from QFF (at a rate that is still profitable for QFF - above the Average Cost of Redemption).

QF flight earned miles are also profitable - but not as much.

The other aspect is that QFF gets to "book" the bulk of the revenue from banks immediately.

Points earned via flights have to be quarantined until time of redemption before the revenue can be recognised on the books.

Whilst this shows as a "liability", it's actually "deferred revenue" which QF gets to recognise at time of redemption.

VERY rough figures (and they differ between airlines):

Revenue from points sold to banks - 1.0-1.5 cents each
Revenue from points sold to other airlines - 0.5 cents each
Marginal Cost of carrying an award passenger - 0.01 cent each
Cost of honoring redemptions on toasters - ~0.005 cents each (depending on airline and items redeemed).
 
As extremely interesting as this discussion surrounding the value of different pax is, I'd like to redirect to my original question and more specifically ask about this quote from the earlier mentioned article, the quote is as follows

They logged hundreds of hours in the air together, rarely leaving airports. This practice — called mileage running, or flying incessantly on steeply discounted flights to accrue frequent-flyer miles...

Now is the practice of mileage runs about investment of cheap flights for a return in the form of points/miles? If so, is this an effective practice in Australia? How is one to measure this investment? And finally, (I feel is a silly question) can you earn points/miles when you fly with award seats?

I apologies about all the questions at once and thank in advance any answers :)
 
As extremely interesting as this discussion surrounding the value of different pax is, I'd like to redirect to my original question and more specifically ask about this quote from the earlier mentioned article, the quote is as follows



Now is the practice of mileage runs about investment of cheap flights for a return in the form of points/miles? If so, is this an effective practice in Australia? How is one to measure this investment? And finally, (I feel is a silly question) can you earn points/miles when you fly with award seats?

I apologies about all the questions at once and thank in advance any answers :)

"Mileage Running" in its purest form was literally getting on a cheap flight - and amassing thousands of frequent flyer points (far outweighing the cost of the airfare).
For example - a $300 roundtrip fare from the USA to Asia and earning say 40 thousand frequent flyer points (which if purchased/valued - would be worth say $800).
Those frequent flyer points are then used to redeem premium seats in Business/First class.

ie. the "mileage run" is a way to manufacture lots of miles cheaply. This method (and the scale to do it on) were fairly unique to the US. Those methods have now pretty much been made extinct.

The "status run" which is often confused with a "mileage run" (as "miles" are used both for points and status in the US) is flying long-distances cheaply to accrue status-earning credits. This is still possible, but again, a lot less attractive in the US than it used to be.

For an Aussie, earning QF or VA points/status - the short answer is that you can still do "status runs", but they have never been as lucrative as those in the US, and generally speaking, doing them in Australia is pretty expensive. You can do VA/QF status runs in the US for better value, but again - not as good as previously.

For earning actual award miles - credit cards in Australia have become very generous in the last few years with bonuses - but these may not last long-term.

That said - there are so many ways to earn points with VA and QF that if you invest the time to learn - you should be able to earn some decent award redemptions in a reasonable time frame.

My advice - don't blindly throw away money on flights you don't need to take, unless you have a good reason for doing so. That may include a deliberate strategy, or even just that you enjoy flying to new places and treating it like a hobby. But don't get yourself into debt, don't spend money you can't afford, and don't do it if it's not fun.

Don't look at Ben and try to copy it - because what Ben has done doesn't work anymore. Ben himself takes a different approach nowadays than he used to.

And whatever you do - never, ever, EVER redeem anything from the QF/VA store!!
 
Another naive question, why not? And how else do you?

Without wanting to sound rude in any way - so please don't take it that way.....

You need to spend some time reading up on this site.

For many folks here - it has taken years of actual bum-in-seat flying to learn the level of knowledge that exists amongst members here.

You have excellent questions - but it's the old story of leading a horse to water...... you've reached the water - but you're the one who has to make the effort to drink.

Short answer to your question - the items in the stores (like toasters etc) are incredibly bad value in terms of using points.

The best value is for international awards and upgrades in premium cabins.

BUT - it all depends on what you want.

Perhaps you're earning millions of points without trying, don't like to fly, hate leaving the country, and are the world's leading toaster collector..... If that's you - then the store could be a great option for you.

But if you're dreaming of emulating Ben as best as is possible under new program rules.... then it means gaining points as cheaply as possible, and redeeming them on first and business cabins to get the best redemption value.

It ALSO means understanding all the fine print and nuances between all the different programs around the world and knowing how to leverage those sweet spots to get maximum advantage.

And then - once you know all that - the programs all change, and you have to start again.

So you have excellent questions - and you're smarter than 90% of folks who don't bother to think of good questions like these prior to starting off down the wrong path.

The answers will take a little more than just a weekend of reading though....

So ask yourself - "are you 100% sure that you want to venture down the rabbit hole???".......

If you do - then you're in the right place ;)
 
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