For QF and VA - a LATAM solution to boarding that WORKS!!

[juddles]

Hi all,

I am aware that priority boarding, and excess cabin baggage, are two common areas for pax disatisfaction and airline pain. I just want to explain a solution to these issues that LATAM in Chile only just recently implemented, and my first impressions are "wow - this really works!".

I will not comment on VA, as I do not fly them, but my understanding of standard QF boarding is to have two queues, one priority, one not, but both of these just let go together. Am I right? This seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Not only does it not give status fliers priority, it actually rubs their nose in this laugh.

I have not experienced it myself yet, but now I hear of pax having their carry-on weighed. I have skimmed through that thread, and as usual there are many arguments on both sides. But this made me realize the LATAM system is so good - let me explain....

First up, LATAM is Chile's main airline, that is so professional it has swallowed up almost all of Sth America and is equivalent to Qantas in size, etc. Internationally they run a premium product, but domestically they have been forced by LCC competition to become similar in base model - for example a cheap ticket has no checked-in-bag allowance. So many people try to avoid paying for checked bags, and thus the usual pressure from carry-on antics.

Under an effectively LCC operations model, but also having the responsibility to answer to some passengers expectation of a premium airline, LATAM has, over the last couple of years, tweaked and changed certain things, but it is their gate boarding control that I want to explain here, because I love it:

The Order:

(Please note, domestically they only have Economy class - no J pax here)

They embark their passengers in distinct groups, by priority. STRICTLY. So the first group goes, then the second, etc. No dual-group boarding nonsense like Qantas.

They have 4 groups. Embarked in order.

Group 1.- Pax with kids or special needs. This is independent of status. And before boarding actually starts, the staff proactively interact with this group, and where appropriate, arrange for best embarkation rather than just first (for example a lady with a screaming child can ask to be the very last to board to minimize in-cabin time) On an average flight (usually A320's) this group will involve half to a dozen pax.

Group 2.- Status holders. One World Emerald or Sapphire, etc. Average about a dozen pax, maybe two dozen.

Group 3.- Non-status pax who only have HAND ARTICLES. This is where to me they have nailed it. If you do not have a major carry-on item such as a roll-on you get to board in a queue before EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS A ROLL-ON.

Group 4.- Non-status pax with carry-on bags.

Each group loads in turn. About 5 minutes before actual boarding, the staff whizz up the first and second groups with a portable scanner and scan everyone's BP, so when they open the gate door these first two columns zip out in seconds.

To me this system works brilliantly - for the airline and the pax. And I see no reason it could not be implemented by Qantas TOMORROW. Four lanes for boarding - easy - just move the start of the current two queues back a metre or two with some guiding signs and tapes. You still stream the pax through the same scanning area.

And again, proactively, the staff offer pax the chance to gate-check their carry-on. So they have the choice to clog up the cabin, or board sooner

 

[opusman]

I've always enjoyed travelling LATAM in South America, because often mrsOpusman and I are the only status pax ("preferente") on the whole flight

 

[Kerrodt]

AA do pretty much the same with group numbers and it works perfectly. And the check in staff happily turn (the very few, based on my experiences) passengers away who try to sneak through. AND passengers are happy to play by these rules.

It really isn’t so difficult.

 

[moa999]

Which all works well when everyone gets to the gate 30min before.

But I suspect would equally have issues when half the plane is elite and they staying the lounge post the first boarding call

 

[Pleb Status]

In my experience, the VA PB process works very well on most (>90%) occasions.

The only 'issue' that some here have with the VA PB process is that, on some occasions, a second VA gate agent will start to board the non status pax whilst some PB pax have yet to be processed by the first VA gate agent.

Apart from this 'issue' (which I personally do not care about), no major changes need to be made to the VA PB process. It generally works very well for me.

Almost all PB problems are really confined to QF. However QF just does not want to do anything about it. It is an absolutely pointless exercise suggesting 'better' PB schemes to them as they just do not give a s#!t about it and could not be bothered enforcing even their current PB process.

It is far easier to move to your business to another airline if you do not like what QF are currently shovelling up to their pax...

 

[dajop]

I think probably the key to effective priority boarding is the way they are processed - more or less along the lines you have described.

Most airlines who do this well will process priority passengers first - so if you have two BP scanners the the two will be dedicated to scanning priority pax first - not one dedicated to priority and the other to non priority. Once the initial queue of priority pax are finished - both scanners do regular pax, but one switches to Priority pax as and when needed (for those boarding late). Seems to work well, even in places that don’t have a cultural predisposition to queuing.

 

[snabbu]

Sounds like other airlines can get it right, it really doesn't seem too complicated when traveling domestically on AA.
Up to 9 groups, one at a time, no exceptions (not including CK who are called first).
It's been happening this way for such a long time the US folks are used to it and the process is generally smooth, as stated by the poster above.
It's just not that hard as long as it's policed and consistent across the board.

 

[PJF]

AA do pretty much the same with group numbers and it works perfectly. And the check in staff happily turn (the very few, based on my experiences) passengers away who try to sneak through. AND passengers are happy to play by these rules.

It really isn’t so difficult.

Unfortunately it is difficult for QF they have not got a clue. Travelled yesterday Syd-Bris the boarding was an absolute debacle and very unprofessional for a so called ? premium airline. Had people in front of me from the UK and there comments were gold but as usual typical QF it fell on deaf ears. Not a great example for overseas travellers.

 

[PJF]

Hi all,

I am aware that priority boarding, and excess cabin baggage, are two common areas for pax disatisfaction and airline pain. I just want to explain a solution to these issues that LATAM in Chile only just recently implemented, and my first impressions are "wow - this really works!".

I will not comment on VA, as I do not fly them, but my understanding of standard QF boarding is to have two queues, one priority, one not, but both of these just let go together. Am I right? This seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Not only does it not give status fliers priority, it actually rubs their nose in this laugh.

I have not experienced it myself yet, but now I hear of pax having their carry-on weighed. I have skimmed through that thread, and as usual there are many arguments on both sides. But this made me realize the LATAM system is so good - let me explain....

First up, LATAM is Chile's main airline, that is so professional it has swallowed up almost all of Sth America and is equivalent to Qantas in size, etc. Internationally they run a premium product, but domestically they have been forced by LCC competition to become similar in base model - for example a cheap ticket has no checked-in-bag allowance. So many people try to avoid paying for checked bags, and thus the usual pressure from carry-on antics.

Under an effectively LCC operations model, but also having the responsibility to answer to some passengers expectation of a premium airline, LATAM has, over the last couple of years, tweaked and changed certain things, but it is their gate boarding control that I want to explain here, because I love it:

The Order:

(Please note, domestically they only have Economy class - no J pax here)

They embark their passengers in distinct groups, by priority. STRICTLY. So the first group goes, then the second, etc. No dual-group boarding nonsense like Qantas.

They have 4 groups. Embarked in order.

Group 1.- Pax with kids or special needs. This is independent of status. And before boarding actually starts, the staff proactively interact with this group, and where appropriate, arrange for best embarkation rather than just first (for example a lady with a screaming child can ask to be the very last to board to minimize in-cabin time) On an average flight (usually A320's) this group will involve half to a dozen pax.

Group 2.- Status holders. One World Emerald or Sapphire, etc. Average about a dozen pax, maybe two dozen.

Group 3.- Non-status pax who only have HAND ARTICLES. This is where to me they have nailed it. If you do not have a major carry-on item such as a roll-on you get to board in a queue before EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS A ROLL-ON.

Group 4.- Non-status pax with carry-on bags.

Each group loads in turn. About 5 minutes before actual boarding, the staff whizz up the first and second groups with a portable scanner and scan everyone's BP, so when they open the gate door these first two columns zip out in seconds.

To me this system works brilliantly - for the airline and the pax. And I see no reason it could not be implemented by Qantas TOMORROW. Four lanes for boarding - easy - just move the start of the current two queues back a metre or two with some guiding signs and tapes. You still stream the pax through the same scanning area.

And again, proactively, the staff offer pax the chance to gate-check their carry-on. So they have the choice to clog up the cabin, or board sooner

Traveller this airline soon can't wait to experience this and hopefully see how a real airline handles boarding.

 

[1022]

Japan and Scandinavia are two places in my experience that board flights the most quickly and efficiently. Both have automatic scanners/turnstiles at the gate. That way one turnstile can be programmed to only allow priority pax through and the other for general boarding.

I actually think Qantas do a decent job of loading a full 737 in 20 minutes or so. Yes it’s a pain for those of us with status to have to stand in a queue or mix with the hoi poloi in the jetbridge, but as already mentioned, most of us are swanning about in the lounge when boarding commences, not being corralled into boarding zones at the gate up to an hour before a domestic flight a la AA, etc just to get on board a few minutes before everyone else. (The boarding process in the US is still a zoo with lots of shouting and carry on. Up to 9 zones is stupid. I’d rather be waiting in the lounge personally. Bear in mind too that elites on US carriers don’t necessarily have lounge access, so are more likely to be gate-licing pre-boarding).

So seeing as humans seem to be more inclined to obey a machine when the ‘computer says no’ QF just needs to put turnstiles at the gate with clear signage above the priority one that won’t let non status pax through.

 

[drron]

Yesterday we had one of those unique experiences.PB worked perfectly for QF 516 SYD-BNE.
No one had lined up before boarding.Even when a family with a small child pre boarded everyone kept sitting.Business class and OWE,OWS pax were called and boarded first.As we were in that group didn't see what happened next.

 

[RichWings]

My AA experiences have been really good. Their app counts down the minutes to when board commences. So you can arrive at the gate 1 min in advance.

I get there a bit earlier if my exec platinum upgrade needs to clear at gate.

Group boarding works fine. And being the USA everyone goes along with it happily.

Contrast that with QF. Flew SYD BNE ret Friday Saturday. Why can’t they just say we are boarding priority now through priority lane and rope off the other lane until they have processed all of the priority pax at gate. JAL do this on intl flights from Narita - even separating emerald from sapphire !

Obviously qantas just don’t care about service consistency across the marketing alliance

 

[garycjohnson]

I fly QF every week and don’t get what this boarding problem is.

A huge amount of pax with status don’t leave the lounge until boarding starts so how could they board us first?

On-time performance is excellent so boarding is clearly not causing issues with getting away on time.

It is very very rare that a pax cabin bag is offloaded so - although you might have to put your bag a couple of rows aware from where you want - that’s not a major issue either. And those “elite pax” who have the trouble with storing bags are the ones who waited in the lounge a bit longer or turned up late. Priority boarding wouldn’t solve that!

This isn’t just a first world problem, I don’t think it’s a problem at all. Everyone gets on. Everyone gets a seat. The flight arrives on time. No problem.

 

[Champo]

My AA experiences have been really good. Their app counts down the minutes to when board commences. So you can arrive at the gate 1 min in advance.

I get there a bit earlier if my exec platinum upgrade needs to clear at gate.

Group boarding works fine. And being the USA everyone goes along with it happily.

Contrast that with QF. Flew SYD BNE ret Friday Saturday. Why can’t they just say we are boarding priority now through priority lane and rope off the other lane until they have processed all of the priority pax at gate. JAL do this on intl flights from Narita - even separating emerald from sapphire !

Obviously qantas just don’t care about service consistency across the marketing alliance

World wide across numerous airlines that I have travelled various forms of priority boarding apply quite successfully. I am at a loss as to why Qantas who are leaders in a lot of areas of aviation cannot introduce such a simple procedure benefiting not only the passengers but the efficiency of the airline

 

[Ausbt]

The hand-article thing is interesting. Recently at OPO (Porto) flying Vueling and with no status, I was at the end of a very long queue when I noticed a bit of a surge forward by a group. Hey, I didn't want to miss out so took a backdoor around the departure gate chairs to the front of the queue. Sure enough it was hand luggage only. Now I didn't really understand this - I was carrying a decent-sized backpack that yes I could just get into the measuring device, although I'd say it was 11 kgs. I'd also checked a bag into the hold. But what the hell, as a VA WP this queuing to board business was a bit beyond the pale for me, so on I went. I guess the backpack beats the roll-ons, huh?

 

[strongarmAU]

VA seems to work ok, more often than not..
QF doesn't, but if people are not trained and not told they wrong queue they wont ever self correct.
Some days it annoys me, others im all for every get on asap and speed up the process.

Ive always wondered if a window seat first approach would be more efficient.

 

[Qman327]

One of the best Customer Service experiences I ever had was back in the Compass Airlines days in the 90's. Standing in queue to check in luggage that you have shuffled along for the last 10 minutes is by far the worst part of air travel and Compass obviously identified this. On one such occasion i was was half way towards my goal of the check in desk when a Compass employee in overalls (luggage handler i assume) with a clipboard came up to me and said "where are you off to today?" I told him thinking he was just being friendly and then he asked if the one suitcase i was kicking along was all i had. When i confirmed i only had the one suitcase, he picked it up to gauge its approximate weight, showed me his photo identification, filled out a luggage voucher, tied it to my case, smiled and said "you can relax at one of the cafes or bars and go to gate 2 at 6.45 for your 7.00 flight". I joyfully walked away feeling a little suspicious but looked back to see him placing my luggage carefully on the belt to meet my aircraft and hand the desk attendant the voucher to process. He obviously scanned the queue for single passengers that suited this level of service and it will not always be appropriate for families etc but i was really impressed to be provided with this level of individual service which also helps the other passengers by removing all the single (often business) travellers. With on line check in we enjoy in the 21st century I expect this would be even easier to offer. Yes i know we have the self serve check in facilities now but frankly i have not seen these really save THAT much time and are often unreliable and insufficient in quantity. This was what i call EXCELLENT service and i have shared this story many times. Compass identified the worst part of the travel experience for passengers and minimised it.

 

[blaz]

Who cares ? The biggest problem continues to be people travelling with too much stuff...they hold everyone up by spending ages loading their gear into the overhead storage (same goes with exiting) . Solve that issue, and you will get my vote.

 

[Tanga]

That's … that's … actually a really good idea. And I say that even though I'd often be in the last group. I hate blocking the aisle when trying to fit my luggage in the overhead, so with this system I'd know that almost everyone was already seated and the only people I was inconveniencing would be people waiting for their own turn at the luggage bins.

 

[higheden]

One of the great joys of flying - not!
I hadn't thought about the QANTAS scramble for sometime as we are avoiding QANTAS flights for now because as has already been mentioned, QF don't seem to give a damn and don't change despite communications with them.
It is a scramble though and we've never understood why.
This is the only airline we've experienced such a shamozzle on boarding, even Easy Jet , a budget airline in Europe, loads better than QANTAS.
We've never experienced it in Europe, USA, South America, Asia, China etc; just good ole Aussie with our national airline!
AA are not the only ones in the States, who board in such a manner, most American Airlines do, including the budget ones we sometimes fly.
It's showing respect and courtesy to fliers with status - why can't QANTAS get that!