Flight changes; unsure how to proceed

[Zephyrana]

I booked flights from New York to Melbourne on June 4-6th. The original ticket was QF18 JFK to LA in business and then QF94 LA to Melbourne in first. Because QF18 was delayed coming in to JFK I was rebooked to QF18 to Sydney, and because QF18 doesn't have first class I was bumped to business.

At the time I was quite cross because Qantas didn't contact me and there was no change to my flight status online, and the airport staff were not pleasant to deal with, but I did eventually stop sulking because flying business is not the end of the world and surly airport staff are not unusual. The terms and conditions are abundantly clear that no flight or seat is guaranteed, and Qantas did get me home with little overall delay, which I greatly appreciate.

My concern now is how this has been recorded on my Qantas frequent flyer activity statement. I've been accorded status credits and points for flying business, not first, and I haven't received a refund for the difference between the first and business fare. Ought I expect one or the other? (Obviously not both.) Do I contact Qantas, or will they contact me, or is there an automatic process? Given that it's a holiday weekend, how long do I give them to sort it out? Or does Qantas bear no responsibility and it's an issue for my travel insurance?

 

[Ansett]

you should contact QF and ask for original routing credits which should be for first class not business class. As for refund due to class change don't expect much as Qantas seem to rip off customers with involuntary downgrades and most don't get anywhere near the real difference in cost.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I booked flights from New York to Melbourne on June 4-6th. The original ticket was QF18 JFK to LA in business and then QF94 LA to Melbourne in first. Because QF18 was delayed coming in to JFK I was rebooked to QF18 to Sydney, and because QF18 doesn't have first class I was bumped to business.

At the time I was quite cross because Qantas didn't contact me and there was no change to my flight status online, and the airport staff were not pleasant to deal with, but I did eventually stop sulking because flying business is not the end of the world and surly airport staff are not unusual. The terms and conditions are abundantly clear that no flight or seat is guaranteed, and Qantas did get me home with little overall delay, which I greatly appreciate.

My concern now is how this has been recorded on my Qantas frequent flyer activity statement. I've been accorded status credits and points for flying business, not first, and I haven't received a refund for the difference between the first and business fare. Ought I expect one or the other? (Obviously not both.) Do I contact Qantas, or will they contact me, or is there an automatic process? Given that it's a holiday weekend, how long do I give them to sort it out? Or does Qantas bear no responsibility and it's an issue for my travel insurance?

The credit for First class should be fairly straight-forward. As Ansett points out, you can contact Qantas and ask for the original routing credit.

The fare difference is another matter. You should contact Qantas as soon as you can and ask them for their advice how to commence the refund procedure. However, you should manage your expectations as the refund proposed by Qantas might be very small, or even non-existent depending on the F fare paid, and the resulting J fare they ended up rebooking you on (for example, if you were discount First, but ended up in full business, there may be little or no refund).

Do you know the reason for the delay ex JFK? That will likely have an impact on your ability to request a greater refund. While it is true that no flight or seat is guaranteed, there is a huge difference between whether the matter was within, or outside, the airline's control. If the former then the 'no guarantee' doesn't really apply.

 

[dk4]

IMO if you are unhappy with the amount Qantas offers as a refund, then you should contact the Airline Customer Advocate Home and if they do not resolve it satisfactorily, then send correspondence to the (Deputy Prime Minister as the) Minister for Infrastructure - http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=GT4

 

[TomVexille]

I would expect both.

 

[Nizar]

Wow I am almost beyond words; this is beyond disgraceful and simply just unacceptable. To be downgraded and not even notified ? And then you have to be the one to waste your time chasing them up ?

I will be following this thread with interest and hope that it gets resolved in a way in which you as the customer are satisfied.

I would suggest a credit card charge back if possible so then they are the ones chasing you. You did not get what you paid for.

 

[wooley]

Following with interest...

 

[TomVexille]

Wow I am almost beyond words; this is beyond disgraceful and simply just unacceptable. To be downgraded and not even notified ? And then you have to be the one to waste your time chasing them up ?

That depend on when the OP was rebooked. I'm going to guess that it was done operationally at the airport. The statement that QFs airport contractors were not pleasant however isn't good enough.

 

[mannej]

I would suggest a credit card charge back if possible so then they are the ones chasing you. You did not get what you paid for.

I am fairly sure this was discussed in one of the previous downgrade threads. From memory a chargeback was suggested by the feel was that it wouldn't get far considering that the members had been carried to their destination.

YMMV though.

 

[TomVexille]

I am fairly sure this was discussed in one of the previous downgrade threads. From memory a chargeback was suggested by the feel was that it wouldn't get far considering that the members had been carried to their destination.

YMMV though.

I agree that a full chargeback would likely be unsuccessful. However I am curious as to what a partial chargeback to the amount of a sale J fare could achieve.

 

[Nizar]

I am fairly sure this was discussed in one of the previous downgrade threads. From memory a chargeback was suggested by the feel was that it wouldn't get far considering that the members had been carried to their destination.

YMMV though.

Seems like QF are getting "simpler and fairer" by the day lol in one of the previous downgrade threads the OP was offered a small cash payment as well as accommodation for the night and to take the next days flight in the class they paid for (in that case J). In this thread it seems like nothing at all was offered.

Simply appalling.

Re: CC chargeback you are probably right but it is just not acceptable I feel. It's like going to a Mercedes Benz showroom paying for an S-class and given an E-class instead. Yes an E-class is a nice car and yes it will certainly take you from A to B, but still it is not the product you paid for.

 

[TomVexille]

Seems like QF are getting "simpler and fairer" by the day lol in one of the previous downgrade threads the OP was offered a small cash payment as well as accommodation for the night and to take the next days flight in the class they paid for (in that case J). In this thread it seems like nothing at all was offered.

We don't know as of yet whether an alternate flight in F was offered for the next day.

 

[mannej]

Seems like QF are getting "simpler and fairer" by the day lol in one of the previous downgrade threads the OP was offered a small cash payment as well as accommodation for the night and to take the next days flight in the class they paid for (in that case J). In this thread it seems like nothing at all was offered.

Simply appalling.

Re: CC chargeback you are probably right but it is just not acceptable I feel. It's like going to a Mercedes Benz showroom paying for an S-class and given an E-class instead. Yes an E-class is a nice car and yes it will certainly take you from A to B, but still it is not the product you paid for.

We don't know what options the OP had. We are all aware of the delays within the long-haul operations as of late so it may be a case of getting home with as little delay as possible.

If you are talking about the purchase of a car, I think whilst it aligns with this case here, it isn't a chargeback related issue, more what is an acceptable level of refund between the two products.

 

[Nizar]

If you are talking about the purchase of a car, I think whilst it aligns with this case here, it isn't a chargeback related issue, more what is an acceptable level of refund between the two products.

Yeah I agree. And to calculate the refund based on the difference between what the OP paid and full J class would, at least for me, not be acceptable, yet this is how QF have behaved in similar cases in the past.

At which point the option of requesting a partial chargeback from the OPs CC provider should be explored.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I would definitely be complaining (in a constructive way), to both Loyalty and Customer Care re surly treatment. You were flying in F/J - it just shouldn't happen, but if they don't know about it they can't do anything. From my chats to both these areas recently there is a genuine desire to provide a quality service, but it just isn't happening at the lower levels of the organisation (well not consistently anyway). There were reports last year of rude treatment of J passengers in LAX - Qantas needs to know it wasn't a one off from USA ports.

As for the rest - without more details hard to know how bad Qantas was at reorganising flights caused by the delay (and what caused the delay). Perhaps the OP needed to fly back straight away, and that was the only option. The OP should get both original routing credits and a refund - pathetic as it might be. The only way this is going to change is if Australia implements legislation similar to Europe.

 

[Zephyrana]

Thank you all for your help! I'm bracing myself for contacting Qantas.

More details, to answer some comments:

I found out the flights were changed when I arrived at check-in at JFK, which is semi-British Airways. The check-in person handed me a printed sheet of paper, said QF18 JFK->LA was delayed because the plane was late coming from LA, and therefore I would not make QF11, and checked me in. No explanation was given for the delay. The new flights were organised before I arrived, so no difficulties there.

I looked at my boarding passes, and protested I didn't want to go through Sydney and I preferred to fly first class. The check-in person called over his senior, who wore a BA uniform. I want to be fair to Mr BA because it can't be easy to deal with disappointed customers, so I will try to leave out the more inflammatory sorts of adjectives. He blankly told me there was no alternative except to come back in 24 hours for the next day's versions of my original flights. (I did consider this, but 24 hours in an airport hotel isn't very appealing and there was no guarantee I would get seats on those flights anyway.) At no time was I asked what would suit me, or offered alternatives, or offered help finding other alternatives. I was told the check-in staff can't process or answer any questions about refunds. Mr BA, frankly, sneered at me and turned away.

My original fare condition was "First Saver", but in business for JFK->LA because QF18 doesn't have first. I didn't purchase in a sale or with points or bundled with anything else, just regular payment from booking online.

The new fare condition says "Flexible Business" on my FF activity statement.

I was Gold FF when I started, but somewhere in the journey home I qualified for Platinum FF.

Qantas did email me after I had checked in, with a new e-ticket itinerary and receipt attached as a pdf file. The "ticket total" is the price I originally paid, with no extra charges for the changes. There was no writing from Qantas, just the attachment and some promotional information. It had a link to a survey in which, I am sorry to admit, I threatened to flounce off to another airline.

 

[RooFlyer]

FWIW one further thought.

When contacting Qantas its likely that you will receive a 'form reply', "sorry, we'll try to do better next time, here's something insulting by way of compensation". Stick to your guns and pursue your claim in a calm manner but be clear from the start what you want. Get it escalated and take precise notes on all calls - what you said, and what they said. As others have said, 'fare difference' has a lot of latitude for calculation on both sides. Be realistic and if you are, then pursue beyond Qantas if not satisfied. Every time some-one gives up on a reasonable claim, it makes it harder for the next person.

In respect of the rude treatment at the airport, I would PM the company rep here RedRoo and advise precise details. The company should want to know about these incidents, especially with premium passengers. Personally I wouldn't bother RedRoo about the compo claim at this stage; maybe link to this thread but until you know what QF are going to say officially, then I don't think there is much RR can do, unless they take an interest.

 

[Flying mermaid]

First of all don't brace yourself - maybe I have been lucky, but I have found Qantas lovely to deal with and genuinely wanting to improve things and I really have complained a lot (for me anyway), in the last 12 months. It is difficult when it is a last minute change - in my case I was downgraded due to a shortage of equipment and there was a month to sort it out.

Also makes it difficult when it was a BA person you were talking to who probably didn't give a stuff.

Qantas loyalty will care about a platinum flying in paid F, so make sure you send an email to loyalty as well as Qantas care people.

 

[TomVexille]

I would second RooFlyer's advice.

And it's Red Roo​ (two words)

 

[Nizar]

Thank you all for your help! I'm bracing myself for contacting Qantas.

More details, to answer some comments:

I found out the flights were changed when I arrived at check-in at JFK, which is semi-British Airways. The check-in person handed me a printed sheet of paper, said QF18 JFK->LA was delayed because the plane was late coming from LA, and therefore I would not make QF11, and checked me in. No explanation was given for the delay. The new flights were organised before I arrived, so no difficulties there.

I looked at my boarding passes, and protested I didn't want to go through Sydney and I preferred to fly first class. The check-in person called over his senior, who wore a BA uniform. I want to be fair to Mr BA because it can't be easy to deal with disappointed customers, so I will try to leave out the more inflammatory sorts of adjectives. He blankly told me there was no alternative except to come back in 24 hours for the next day's versions of my original flights. (I did consider this, but 24 hours in an airport hotel isn't very appealing and there was no guarantee I would get seats on those flights anyway.) At no time was I asked what would suit me, or offered alternatives, or offered help finding other alternatives. I was told the check-in staff can't process or answer any questions about refunds. Mr BA, frankly, sneered at me and turned away.

My original fare condition was "First Saver", but in business for JFK->LA because QF18 doesn't have first. I didn't purchase in a sale or with points or bundled with anything else, just regular payment from booking online.

The new fare condition says "Flexible Business" on my FF activity statement.

I was Gold FF when I started, but somewhere in the journey home I qualified for Platinum FF.

Qantas did email me after I had checked in, with a new e-ticket itinerary and receipt attached as a pdf file. The "ticket total" is the price I originally paid, with no extra charges for the changes. There was no writing from Qantas, just the attachment and some promotional information. It had a link to a survey in which, I am sorry to admit, I threatened to flounce off to another airline.

When this is how paid F pax are treated what hope do the rest of us have lol.

Disgraceful.

I don't get how they think it's acceptable to downgrade you send you an email and just be done with it ?

No phone call, no asking what you would like to do, no offer of a refund.

I am stunned.