Flight cancellation help requested: Qantas Classic Reward seat via Qatar Airways

[charliebrown]

Qantas may have received notice of the cancellation on the 15th. They also may have had a replacement flight inserted by QR on the 15th! Re ticketing is usually done by the airline at the airline’s prompt, and with qantas and other carriers they usually wait and ask you to ‘accept the changes’. So reticketing often isn’t automatic, if that’s what the agent was trying to convey. In fact the whole problem here is that it *isnt* automatic, leading to the tickets cancelling out.

Thank you, this is helpful because you've made me realise I'm not using accurate phrasing and should ensure I make this clear in my call logs. On the phone I specifically asked her to confirm that no changes had been offered by Qatar at any point. She was very adamant that no rerouting had been offered. It's really tough because I know I can't trust their word. I wish there was a way of me requesting the full record, perhaps I should investigate whether I can make some kind of freedom of information request (I know this usually applies to governmental organisations but whatever the personal data equivalent is).

EU261 equally applies to award tickets as it does paid tickets. It’s really annoying that they make stuff up, but that equally that they have such strong convictions in their made up stuff!

It's really not helpful is it? My head is spinning from all the directly contradictory statements they've made with absolute confidence. Especially infuriating is the condescending tone! I appreciate I'm on a rewards seat but they talk to me like I'm a 9-year-old competition winner who's asking to be flown first class to the moon!

The agent on the phone to me was dead serious and 100% believed her own statement as she announced ‘qantas doesn’t fly at all between Sydney and Melbourne after 8am on any day of the week’. And yes, that included paid tickets.

This made me laugh out loud. Solidarity to you!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Qantas may have received notice of the cancellation on the 15th. They also may have had a replacement flight inserted by QR on the 15th! Re ticketing is usually done by the airline at the airline’s prompt, and with qantas and other carriers they usually wait and ask you to ‘accept the changes’. So reticketing often isn’t automatic, if that’s what the agent was trying to convey. In fact the whole problem here is that it *isnt* automatic, leading to the tickets cancelling out.

I've had a variety of schedule adjustments from partners on Air Canada Aeroplan award tickets I have booked and how they handled it depend on the change. For instance, BR cancelled my TPE > ICN connecting flight to a couple hours ahead meaning that I would be landing into TPE fro LAX after my ICN flight departed. Obviously that was illegal and I called Aeroplan. At first I asked if I could get rebooked onto BR since they had a few other flights out of LAX that day that would allow me to make the connection and I wanted to try BR as I've heard great things about them. To make a short story long, the agent called BR ticketing and was flat out told no. Fair enough, they rebooked me on AC flights to ICN (via YVR) all in business class. No arguing or fighting they just did it. Now my onward flight from ICN to SYD with OZ had a schedule change earlier this week whereby the flight would be arriving an hour earlier than scheduled. There was no action required for me to take on my end.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make here is other airlines reward programs have systems in place to minimize the impact of IRROPS and have given agents the latitude to make things right when schedule changes have happened. For AC specifically there have been a number of occasions where they have rebooked me on their own metal or even partner metal (when they weren't operating a flight) going so far as to purchase revenue tickets on partners for things to happen.

EU261 equally applies to award tickets as it does paid tickets. It’s really annoying that they make stuff up, but that equally that they have such strong convictions in their made up stuff!

That's correct. It's always the case that law trumps any terms and conditions. If airlines could simply override EU261 by writing it into their T&Cs they would've already done it by now and saved billions (and lost tens of billions) by no having to pay out EU261 compensation.

The agent on the phone to me was dead serious and 100% believed her own statement as she announced ‘qantas doesn’t fly at all between Sydney and Melbourne after 8am on any day of the week’. And yes, that included paid tickets.

Ahh yes the ol' Melbourne to Sydney red-eye. I remember landing into Sydney at 5 AM to avoid the dreaded 8 AM Melbourne curfew. Damn COVID restrictions!

I’m keeping a summary of everything I’m doing to try to rectify the situation. Potentially this could form the basis of a future advice post for those in similar situations, with the purpose of collating all of the excellent advice I have received.

• I made a complaint to Qatar using [email protected] and have asked this to be forwarded to their legal team as they are repeatedly telling me to go through Qantas. Specifically referencing EU261.
• I have emailed Markus Svensson and Andrew David using email format [email protected] explaining the situation in a calm but detailed way
• I’m calling as often as I can bear (up to daily), getting my partner to help me and keeping records. I have specifically sought information around the cancellation circumstances and so far Qantas agents have dropped that A) Qatar Airways do have suitable seats available, but they “will want to save them for revenue customers”, B) Qatar informed Qantas of the cancellation on 15th November, C) Qatar did not automatically rebook this flight
• I made a complaint to Qantas via https://www.qantas.com/au/en/support/contact-us/customer-care-feedback-form.html Their email response allows you to reply with additional documents/info so I am keeping a call log and sending it to them each time I call. This is today’s (with booking refs etc. redacted):

Great to see you are making a record of everything and getting in touch with folks. One other thing you need to be prepared to do is to bear the cost of purchasing the tickets and keep a record of those purchases. If the airline wants to deny you boarding of flights you have paid for, they will be on the hook to compensate you for the new flights per EU261. I know this will likely take some time to get sorted compared to them simply getting it right the first time, but I'd say don't give up. You've got the aces in your pocket in the sense that you are holding confirmed tickets back to Australia and there is nothing the airlines can do to absolve them of their responsibility to transport you there. Whatever you do don't accept a refund from them. If they want to take your points, fine, but at the end of the day they will transport you to Australia at no out of pocket cost to you.

-RooFlyer88

 

[charliebrown]

You are completely wasting your time and breath talking to o/s call centres about this issue. Hobart are the only ones who will be able to help you. Your on the hamster wheel!

Thank you for the reminder. I'm getting obsessive, which has happened on occasion when I've become especially cranky about something. Shower and bed for me. Then when I have the brain capacity I will search the forum for discussions around getting connected to Hobart/NZ (I imagine it is a case of hanging up until I hear the right accent). Cheers!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

One thought to consider, and maybe this is a stretch but I throw it out there for consideration. My understanding is that when a Platinum One calls Qantas they are put to the Hobart or NZ call centre and these call centres are more experienced reservationists than those in SA. Correct?

What's to stop a member on this forum who is Platinum One from getting in touch with OP via phone then conference calling in QF to access the premium line and have the OP simply do the talking? Granted, it's a bit of a kludge but it might be better than speaking to the same old agents who tell you there aren't flights between Melbourne and Sydney after 8 AM and T&Cs trump EU law.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Muppet501st]

One thought to consider, and maybe this is a stretch but I throw it out there for consideration. My understanding is that when a Platinum One calls Qantas they are put to the Hobart or NZ call centre and these call centres are more experienced reservationists than those in SA. Correct?

What's to stop a member on this forum who is Platinum One from getting in touch with OP via phone then conference calling in QF to access the premium line and have the OP simply do the talking? Granted, it's a bit of a kludge but it might be better than speaking to the same old agents who tell you there aren't flights between Melbourne and Sydney after 8 AM and T&Cs trump EU law.

-RooFlyer88

That was done before on here to help a member out

 

[teleri]

Also try the complaints line, 1300 659 161. While I've only ever had overseas call centres as a NB, calling that number (M-F business hours only), I never felt that I was stepping backwards. Took me over 40 calls and several reticketing issues (and other bs) to realise that I'm not touching the regular number again for award redemptions.

HBA will be better though as they have manual ticketing authority, I believe.

Good luck.

 

[gidxg03]

I’ve posted in the other thread in the Qatar forum but I too have been caught up in this.
Booked my award flights months ago MEL-DFW-LHR-DUB and had a seperate booking for DUB-DOH-CBR which was then moved to MEL which suited me better anyway.

The key point for me was after several calls to get the new flight ticketed I did get the flight correctly ticketed to Melbourne. I even checked it on checkmytrip.

I was contacted by what I presume was someone from the Hobart team (in response I think to submitting the complaint form on their website). He told me it had been correctly ticketed and Qatar had just cancelled the flight.

He put in a request for 2 flights for me with Qatar (same as my original flights) and Qantas/BA via LHR-SIN. The flights appeared in my app showing on request but the Qantas/BA flights have since fallen off which I presume were declined. The Qatar flights are still on request but I’m not holding out much hope.

I’ve since replied to the email I got from my complaint to Qantas asking if the agent can call again to give me an update but no response.

My flight out leaves in 3 weeks and right now I have no return flight. We really do need EU type protection from airlines as this whole situation is just a joke.

 

[Mwenenzi]

I’ve posted in the other thread in the Qatar forum but I too have been caught up in this.
Booked my award flights months ago MEL-DFW-LHR-DUB and had a seperate booking for DUB-DOH-CBR which was then moved to MEL which suited me better anyway.

<snip>I was contacted by what I presume was someone from the Hobart team (in response I think to submitting the complaint form on their website). He told me it had been correctly ticketed and Qatar had just cancelled the flight.

My flight out leaves in 3 weeks and right now I have no return flight. We really do need EU type protection from airlines as this whole situation is just a joke.

Did you receive the revised e-ticket?
You *do* have EU261 protection for your ex DUB flight, subject to rules and what applies in your case

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’ve posted in the other thread in the Qatar forum but I too have been caught up in this.
Booked my award flights months ago MEL-DFW-LHR-DUB and had a seperate booking for DUB-DOH-CBR which was then moved to MEL which suited me better anyway.

The key point for me was after several calls to get the new flight ticketed I did get the flight correctly ticketed to Melbourne. I even checked it on checkmytrip.

I was contacted by what I presume was someone from the Hobart team (in response I think to submitting the complaint form on their website). He told me it had been correctly ticketed and Qatar had just cancelled the flight.

He put in a request for 2 flights for me with Qatar (same as my original flights) and Qantas/BA via LHR-SIN. The flights appeared in my app showing on request but the Qantas/BA flights have since fallen off which I presume were declined. The Qatar flights are still on request but I’m not holding out much hope.

I’ve since replied to the email I got from my complaint to Qantas asking if the agent can call again to give me an update but no response.

My flight out leaves in 3 weeks and right now I have no return flight. We really do need EU type protection from airlines as this whole situation is just a joke.

The flight from DUB *is* covered by EU261 already. Your rights are actionable against qatar as the operating carrier.

While an EU261 equivalent would be great here in Australia, it wouldn’t help you in this case as Qantas is not the operator, and did not cancel the flights.

 

[gidxg03]

Did you receive the revised e-ticket.
You *do* have EU261 protection for your ex DUB flight, subject to rules and what applies in your case

Reading this thread has opened my eyes to this! I've done a bit of research and there is an Air passenger rights EU complaint form which I will use to make a complaint.

Edit: I submitted a complaint via their website: https://www.qatarairways.com/en/help.html#feedback

Will post back if I get a response. Complaint below if anyone else wants to use a similar text..

Dear Qatar,

I booked a one way flight from Dublin to Melbourne via Doha. Despite no communication from you on this my flight was cancelled by you.

Under European Regulation EC 261 my understanding is you must offer a choice between:

- Reimbursement of the ticket
- re-routing to my final destination at the earliest opportunity or,
- re-routing at a later date at my convenience under comparable transport conditions, subject to the availability of seats.

My preference would be rerouting to my destination (from Dublin to Melbourne).

Given the flight was booked to leave in just over 5 weeks I would appreciate a response at your earliest convenience.

Regards,
gidxg03.

 

[charliebrown]

*Provisionally very positive update: I think we're on a flight to Melbourne!*

Today I received an email from Qatar support saying "We can note that your tickets have been rebooked and not cancelled nor refunded, as you state on your claims."

I called Qantas to investigate. The agent answered immediately. We could barely hear each other as it sounded like there was a giant party going on in the background at her end. She seemed very confused but sent me a travel document which confirmed we're on a flight to Melbourne, the same flight which Qatar had apparently refused to put us on. More confusing is she told us this had been rebooked on the 30th November. I've spent several hours on the phone since then with agents repeatedly telling us to accept a refund because it's the last option left.

She told me the ticketing process was underway. She did not understand the circumstances for the change and asked "So you want me to put you back on your original flight to Canberra?" I was terrified she would make some kind of bizarre change out of confusion so I thanked her for her help and said I'd call back another time to discuss as I couldn't hear properly.

We still need to get to Canberra. I understand Qatar should be getting us to our original destination under EU261. However I am tempted to let this part go and pay someone proper to get us to Canberra. The process has been so utterly incompetent I'm worried that any attempts to change will stuff it all up again. I also haven't received any actual tickets for either of our changed flights and only have a travel document for one. I think the best thing for me to do is to wait for the actual tickets to arrive before taking any other action but I'm not sure.

I have absolutely no idea what happened - did my persistence with Qantas pay off? My email to Qatar on the 30th explaining my legal rights? Was it all going to sort itself out anyway and I've wasted my time? I will probably never know. For now I'll have a glass of wine and relax.

Sincere thanks to all who have helped me, I am truly grateful. I will continue to check in and update.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Reading this thread has opened my eyes to this! I've done a bit of research and there is an Air passenger rights EU complaint form which I will use to make a complaint.

Edit: I submitted a complaint via their website: https://www.qatarairways.com/en/help.html#feedback

Will post back if I get a response. Complaint below if anyone else wants to use a similar text..

Dear Qatar,

I booked a one way flight from Dublin to Melbourne via Doha. Despite no communication from you on this my flight was cancelled by you.

Under European Regulation EC 261 my understanding is you must offer a choice between:

- Reimbursement of the ticket
- re-routing to my final destination at the earliest opportunity or,
- re-routing at a later date at my convenience under comparable transport conditions, subject to the availability of seats.

My preference would be rerouting to my destination (from Dublin to Melbourne).

Given the flight was booked to leave in just over 5 weeks I would appreciate a response at your earliest convenience.

Regards,
gidxg03.

That’s right. Although I would have perhaps strengthened your intentions… ‘your preference’ indicates you could be open to something else. If they come back to you I would say something like ‘EU261 requires you to offer me the following options and I choose to be rerouted at the earliest opportunity from my original flight date. I do not accept a refund’.

Hopefully you’ll get some results!

 

[Mwenenzi]

She told me the ticketing process was underway. She did not understand the circumstances for the change and asked "So you want me to put you back on your original flight to Canberra?" I was terrified she would make some kind of bizarre change out of confusion so I thanked her for her help and said I'd call back another time to discuss as I couldn't hear properly.

Until you have received the e-ticket (via Qantas) you have nothing. Repeat - nothing
From other posts QF has been failing in re-ticketing QR flights.
QR are not flying to CBR, so how can you be "put you back on your original flight to Canberra?" Unless a VA/QF MEL-CBR flight.

https://booking.qatarairways.com/nsp/views/retrievePnr.xhtml

 

[ellen10]

Hopefully a good outcome for you @charliebrown, after all you have been through.

 

[charliebrown]

Until you have received the e-ticket (via Qantas) you have nothing. Repeat - nothing
From other posts QF has been failing in re-ticketing QR flights.

This is exactly what I'm worried about! Unfortunately apart from calling every day I don't really know what to do about it. I'm worried that calling may make things worse because they're all so confused.

QR are not flying to CBR, so how can you be "put you back on your original flight to Canberra?" Unless a VA/QF MEL-CBR flight.

Exactly, she was another very confused agent so I ended the call with her before she did something weird.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

*Provisionally very positive update: I think we're on a flight to Melbourne!*

We still need to get to Canberra. I understand Qatar should be getting us to our original destination under EU261. However I am tempted to let this part go and pay someone proper to get us to Canberra. The process has been so utterly incompetent I'm worried that any attempts to change will stuff it all up again. I also haven't received any actual tickets for either of our changed flights and only have a travel document for one. I think the best thing for me to do is to wait for the actual tickets to arrive before taking any other action but I'm not sure.

Why reward QF for their incompetence by paying out of pocket for a sector you should've received? I would try to get the Canberra sector re-added which shouldn't be an issue for QF since they can make Y seats appears for classic awards if necessary.

 

[charliebrown]

Why reward QF for their incompetence by paying out of pocket for a sector you should've received? I would try to get the Canberra sector re-added which shouldn't be an issue for QF since they can make Y seats appears for classic awards if necessary.

Many thanks I will certainly try to get them to do so! I can see there are rewards seats on an appropriate MEL-CBR flight. I would rather they didn't take my points to put us on that flight but I think my chances of getting them to do so for free are slim to none given the experience I've had so far. Unless I luck into a Hobart rep.

One option may be trying to recoup the cost from QR.

I suppose for me it is about weighing the cost of my effort trying to get it rectified and all the additional stress at an already quite stressful time for me, as compared to the financial/points cost.

 

[kpc]

Is this Qatar award cancellation due to ticketing delays only an issue if you book using Qf miles? How about booking Qatar awards with BA Avios. AA miles, Velocity points etc?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Many thanks I will certainly try to get them to do so! I can see there are rewards seats on an appropriate MEL-CBR flight. I would rather they didn't take my points to put us on that flight but I think my chances of getting them to do so for free are slim to none given the experience I've had so far. Unless I luck into a Hobart rep.

I think a strong case could be made that your ticket was from Rome to Canberra and thus far you are only going so far as Melbourne and not Canberra. In addition, since Qantas is both the agency selling you the ticket from Rome to Canberra and operates services between Melbourne and Canberra (I can attest to the later point having flown Melbourne to Canberra on Friday), there shouldn't be much of an issue for them booking you on a QF flight to CBR. If you want to book those tickets separately, by all means and I can understand the need for not wanting to deal with this stress again. But I will point out that if your inbound flights to MEL get delayed or cancelled (requiring further rebooking) those tickets you bought out of pocket (and not linked to this itinerary) will be worthless. Also, if you deal with an airline other than QF for the MEL > CBR ticket you may have to worry about things like paying baggage fees, baggage transfer issues, etc.

One option may be trying to recoup the cost from QR.

I suppose for me it is about weighing the cost of my effort trying to get it rectified and all the additional stress at an already quite stressful time for me, as compared to the financial/points cost.

At this point it's all up to QF to get you to CBR. They are the only ones who operate MEL > CBR and they have the power to open up seats especially in circumstances like these.

Is this Qatar award cancellation due to ticketing delays only an issue if you book using Qf miles? How about booking Qatar awards with BA Avios. AA miles, Velocity points etc?

This has been discussed in some detail elsewhere in the QF Forum. The thing about QF is they handle bookings different from most other airlines. Whereas if I were to book an award ticket with say AC, it would get instantly processed right then and there and I'd receive my itinerary in a couple minutes tops via email. However, QF has a two step ticketing process where the agent makes the request for ticketing, the request goes into a queue that is manually reviewed by the ticketing team who can either approve or deny the request. During this time the operating airline will hold the seat for the passenger, but that hold only lasts for like 24 hours or so. Normally, that's not a big deal if the queue is processed rapidly and if all of the information needed to complete the request (i.e. payment info for taxes & fees) has already been collected. However, sometimes that doesn't happen in time resulting in the seat hold going away and the request ultimately not being ticketed.

-RooFlyer88

 

[encryptededdy]

The thing about QF is they handle bookings different from most other airlines. Whereas if I were to book an award ticket with say AC, it would get instantly processed right then and there and I'd receive my itinerary in a couple minutes tops via email. However, QF has a two step ticketing process where the agent makes the request for ticketing, the request goes into a queue that is manually reviewed by the ticketing team who can either approve or deny the request.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I'm sure there are cases where AC requires manual ticketing, and also most of the time when I make a QF award booking online it's ticketed automatically (since I receive the email in a couple minutes tops).

The issue is IMO two fold with Qantas;
1. Anecdotally it feels like tickets fail to automatically ticket more often with Qantas. I presume this is an IT and/or strict ticketing rules issue.
2. They don't tell you if things don't ticket, so many people are clueless. I've had an AirNZ ticket fail to ticket once, and after an hour or two it sends you a big scary email that basically says "there's a problem with your booking (ticket not issued), please call us NOW to resolve this."

From what I can tell there seems to be 4 cases which cause Qantas award tickets to fail to ticket

1. The user actually did something wrong, causing it to fail (card declined, etc.) - very rare
2. You book an award ticket online, and it never tickets automatically, even the first time - rare
3. A partner changes a flight, you accept the changes online, and the ticket needs to be reissued but the system does not apply the changes correctly, causing the ticket to not reissue - common
4. A call centre operator (usually non-Hobart/Auckland) changes the ticket for you, but messes it up so that the system cannot ticket it - common

Is this Qatar award cancellation due to ticketing delays only an issue if you book using Qf miles? How about booking Qatar awards with BA Avios. AA miles, Velocity points etc?
So Qatar will cancel tickets due to ticketing delays regardless of who you've booked it. If BA or AA doesn't ticket within ~24 hours, QR will cancel your BA/AA ticketed award too. However, the thing is BA/AA are not known (to my knowledge) to have issues ticketing on time, hence Qatar cancellations seldom (or never) happen.