First* Class with an Asterisk [*Lesser treatment when not WP..]

[Princess Fiona]

This not only happens in first class. My wife got an upgrade recently to business class 24 hours before flying from Bangkok (as a FF Gold) and likewise was not invited to place her order when the satff came around. When she insisted they take her order which they did, it was somewhat grudgingly. Was this practice because they wanted to make sure everybody elses choices were met before the upgrades were considered. Or heaven forbid was it that she was the only women in her vicinity in rthe cabin and Asian-Australian to boot. If it was the former that is just bad form, and if the latter inexcusable. Ultimately this is counterproductive, as we now seek out QF flights on EK metal. Enough food should be loaded to meet everybody's choices or otherwise don't offer them but make it on a strict first come first served basis. To seem to be discriminating for whatever reason is a very bad look.

It was neither sexist nor racist, and nothing to do with the upgrade.

It is quite common for meal orders in a full J cabin to be taken in status order by the FAs. No discrimination at all.
It's simply not possible to load enough food to meet everyone's first meal choice. Or at least not possible without wasting a lot of food and raising the ticket price accordingly.

 

[kermatu]

No, the CSM handled the situation relatively well. He was quite professional and at least tried to make a bad situation better. Yes, they all probably could have dealt with the flight better. The flight attendant was not good, but nothing we can do about that. I must say, this wasn't the end of the world. Yes, it was disappointing and yes, it was not nice to be treated like we were (and to miss out on the full tasting menu), but, we were lucky enough to be flying F, so I am not sure we can really complain too much. The cabin manager did try - he got one of the meals from J (which was apparently similar to the F meal) and while there were other dishes we didn't get to try, there are bigger things to worry about. Our return flight was much better and was a good experience with great flight attendants and food. The issue for me here was how we were made to feel by the FA. The funny thing is, it is likely I will be Platinum in the coming months (from mainly flying other alliance airlines) and that's what I tried to explain to the CSM. Just because someone isn't Platinum now, doesn't mean they are not going to be in 6 months. And regardless - everyone in F should have a seamless experience and you should treat everyone with respect (regardless of the class they are flying or their "status".)

Thanks for the extra info. And good on you for the right attitude/perspective!. I perhaps did read too much into your post. Pity there was a sour note to your F experience but good the return was better.

 

[bam71]

Funny isn't it. In EY F ( apartments) you can order, and get, things not on the menu. In QF F you sometimes can't get things on the menu!

I must admit, I've been treating the EY F menu as a sort of "serving suggestion", and asking for meals to be made for me as I want them, bit of this and a bit of that. Never any trouble.....

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I must admit, I've been treating the EY F menu as a sort of "serving suggestion", and asking for meals to be made for me as I want them, bit of this and a bit of that. Never any trouble.....

That is exactly how the inflight chef or F&B managers have always encouraged me to approach it.

 

[MrJetset]

It was neither sexist nor racist, and nothing to do with the upgrade.

It is quite common for meal orders in a full J cabin to be taken in status order by the FAs. No discrimination at all.
It's simply not possible to load enough food to meet everyone's first meal choice. Or at least not possible without wasting a lot of food and raising the ticket price accordingly.

+1.

If the upgrade was confirmed > 24 hours she would also have had access to Eat on Q where she could have pre-ordered.

A CSM gave my meal which was the online special to someone else in the cabin. Did I pull the discrimination card? No. He made a mistake and he rectified it apologising profusely.

People forget that just like in any occupation FAs are human and make mistakes. A frequent flyer is best to learn to deal with mistakes without getting enraged or jumping to conclusions. Otherwise you never really learn the art of travel if you keep adding stress into the situation.

 

[Conrad_S]

While there are a lot of very good points made in this thread. For me travelling first should mean you come away from the flight feeling your expectations have been fulfilled. All airlines charge enough for first class to cover a bit of wastage. I'm glad the flight back went well.

 

[patrickk]

+1.

If the upgrade was confirmed > 24 hours she would also have had access to Eat on Q where she could have pre-ordered.

A CSM gave my meal which was the online special to someone else in the cabin. Did I pull the discrimination card? No. He made a mistake and he rectified it apologising profusely.

People forget that just like in any occupation FAs are human and make mistakes. A frequent flyer is best to learn to deal with mistakes without getting enraged or jumping to conclusions. Otherwise you never really learn the art of travel if you keep adding stress into the situation.

There was no outrage as you suggest in this case (but possible conclusions given previous experience). The person did exactly as you suggested but there was no profuse apology as you were lucky enough to experience. I was told the story (not the CSM). Also on many if not all inbound flights Q-Eats is not available. So the issue is if one is an obvious minority (sex and/or race) in a space and they are ignored then there are a number of possibilties as to why (and by the way discrimination is actually not a 'card', and not if it was it was not played as you suggest). Rather than suggest they 'get over it' (too often and inappropriate response) The best solution is to be very friendly and explain the pecking order as there seems to be one. This overcomes the race/sex perception issue. The issue I have however is about a pecking order. I actually get annoyed with the gushing that some sometimes happens to Platinum or Platinum 1s in economy. Interestingly QF ignores me (there is so many Golds upstairs on an A380) but EK and CX always have a kind word, and often a free upgrade. Q-Eats is a way around this issue but as I said not available on all flights particularly in-bound ones.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It's simply not possible to load enough food to meet everyone's first meal choice. Or at least not possible without wasting a lot of food and raising the ticket price accordingly.

Although to be fair some airlines are better at estimating passenger demand for particular meals and load accordingly. They only need one or two extras to cover any variance.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Although to be fair some airlines are better at estimating passenger demand for particular meals and load accordingly. They only need one or two extras to cover any variance.

There can never be an excuse to not give an F PAX their choice.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Although to be fair some airlines are better at estimating passenger demand for particular meals and load accordingly. They only need one or two extras to cover any variance.

There can never be an excuse to not give an F PAX their choice.

My post was referring to the J cabin. I agree that the catering should be such that they do not run out of choices in F.

Running out of my meal choice is something that has happened to me in J on BA/CX/AA as well as QF. Not happened recently on QF and likely due to being one of the first to have my order taken.

BA do take orders in J from their own elites first on some flights IME, this isn't something that's restricted to QF.

 

[TheRealTMA]

My post was referring to the J cabin. I agree that the catering should be such that they do not run out of choices in F.

Running out of my meal choice is something that has happened to me in J on BA/CX/AA as well as QF. Not happened recently on QF and likely due to being one of the first to have my order taken.

BA do take orders in J from their own elites first on some flights IME, this isn't something that's restricted to QF.

Yes I knew that but that's not the current topic.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Yes I knew that but that's not the current topic.

Indeed although as often happens here it drifts off course

 

[vantage03]

The reality is QF's F cabin is twice the size it needs to be in order to provide a real F service

 

[Princess Fiona]

The reality is QF's F cabin is twice the size it needs to be in order to provide a real F service

How so? Do you think they should have less seats?

 

[MrJetset]

There was no outrage as you suggest in this case (but possible conclusions given previous experience). The person did exactly as you suggested but there was no profuse apology as you were lucky enough to experience. I was told the story (not the CSM). Also on many if not all inbound flights Q-Eats is not available. So the issue is if one is an obvious minority (sex and/or race) in a space and they are ignored then there are a number of possibilties as to why (and by the way discrimination is actually not a 'card', and not if it was it was not played as you suggest). Rather than suggest they 'get over it' (too often and inappropriate response) The best solution is to be very friendly and explain the pecking order as there seems to be one. This overcomes the race/sex perception issue. The issue I have however is about a pecking order. I actually get annoyed with the gushing that some sometimes happens to Platinum or Platinum 1s in economy. Interestingly QF ignores me (there is so many Golds upstairs on an A380) but EK and CX always have a kind word, and often a free upgrade. Q-Eats is a way around this issue but as I said not available on all flights particularly in-bound ones.

QF is not responsible for the false conclusions you may reach because of your lived experience. The point remains that there was no discrimination based on sex or ethnic background. Indeed staring so delegitimises your argument.

As for the recognition of WP and above - if this annoys you then you are going to be most unhappy being a frequent flyer. Any decent business recognises high value customers and it is simply more visible on public transport such as on aircraft where it is witnessed by others.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The reality is QF's F cabin is twice the size it needs to be in order to provide a real F service

16, 18, even 20 seats (or more) was not uncommon in F and that came with perfect service. The issue for QF is minimum crewing and seemingly little support from management to provide the required amenity and product.

 

[vantage03]

How so? Do you think they should have less seats?

Absolutely. I think F should be 8 pax max. F is about exclusivity, privacy and personal service. That just isn't possible with 14 seats.

I don't understand the economics enough to know what works financially and what doesn't, but as a paying F customer I personally love SQ's 4 seat config - although even I think that's probably unrealistic.

16, 18, even 20 seats (or more) was not uncommon in F and that came with perfect service. The issue for QF is minimum crewing and seemingly little support from management to provide the required amenity and product.

Totally see what you're saying but standards and consumer expectations have changed. This is exactly the problem we're talking about here... QF's product hasn't moved with the times. I love that our national airline still has a go with First. There's clearly a market for it in Australia, I just wish they'd do it justice and make it a real F product (as their competitors do) rather than making it Business+

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Absolutely. I think F should be 8 pax max. F is about exclusivity, privacy and personal service. That just isn't possible with 14 seats.

I disagree that F is about exclusivity. It's open to anyone with the means and the wish to take a seat there. Yes to privacy and personal service (and a tailored experience that meets the needs of the individual). All those things are possible in larger cabins and possible to be well executed - SQ manages with 12 suites, LH managed with 16 seats on the upper deck (before dropping to 8).

 

[Princess Fiona]

Absolutely. I think F should be 8 pax max. F is about exclusivity, privacy and personal service. That just isn't possible with 14 seats.

I don't understand the economics enough to know what works financially and what doesn't, but as a paying F customer I personally love SQ's 4 seat config - although even I think that's probably unrealistic.



Totally see what you're saying but standards and consumer expectations have changed. This is exactly the problem we're talking about here... QF's product hasn't moved with the times. I love that our national airline still has a go with First. There's clearly a market for it in Australia, I just wish they'd do it justice and make it a real F product (as their competitors do) rather than making it Business+

EK has 14 seats as does BA on the A380.

 

[patrickk]

QF is not responsible for the false conclusions you may reach because of your lived experience. The point remains that there was no discrimination based on sex or ethnic background. Indeed staring so delegitimises your argument.

As for the recognition of WP and above - if this annoys you then you are going to be most unhappy being a frequent flyer. Any decent business recognises high value customers and it is simply more visible on public transport such as on aircraft where it is witnessed by others.

Jock, there is no need to attack me (or those I know) for an experience which you have not gone through, so please show some courtesy towards others. As for me I have been a QF FF for far too long to remember and so no I am not a 'most unhappy frequent flier' as you suggest, but one that gets a little annoyed by unthinking service. QF staff arguably do have a responsibilty to enure their passengers are comfortable (and here you and I may differ), and one way to do that is to expalin policy clearly (ie. to apologise and say due to meal availability they will take the lower status persons orders after others have orded). That way people feel comfortable, and more likely to stick with you. Jus sayin!!!