Excessive fees by Airlines

[DougR]

Interesting that you can buy a (say) Qantas Gift voucher with a credit card for no surcharge - then use it to pay for a trip - no surcharge again
Doug

 

[marks]

It's disgraceful. $7+ for paying by credit card on line for a domestic ticket - when there's no other way to pay!

But the worst was the $300+ i had to pay Flight Centre for buying a Business Class ticket to the US and paying with Amex. What a ripoff!

Don't forget that you also have to sign something that you waive your rights from your card issuers to rescind payment to the Fleece Centre if something goes wrong (travel provider goes bust, service is not what you paid for, etc!) Remember the Ansett collapse and banks refunding CC payments in some cases.

I use an agent that doesn't charge CC fees. They are out there...

I thought CC were invented so they can track your spend and sell this data to others......

 

[Prof Henry]

I have colleagues who claim that "this only happens in Australia." I know that's not strictly true – I have paid CC surcharges in several countries. But in my, probably limited, experience these are usually more or less in the range of the 'fee' charged by the CC provider to merchants. Has anyone had experience in other countries of CC (sur)charges on the scale of those applied by CabCharge, airlines, entertainment booking agencies and even some merchants in Australia. The surcharge for purchases online when no alternative payment method is available is especially galling.

 

[monoccular]

Re: Jetstar's drip charges and the ACCC

The thing that really ps me off is when you are charged an online "credit card fee" when there is no other option. Just such a rip off.

 

[JohnCarrWestwood]

Why, when GST has to be included in the retail price, does 'credit card cost recovery fee' have to be shown as an extra.
Its not as if its a negotiable option.
The flight price should be x for cash or debit or y for credit cards .
Lets keep it simple, airlines.

its bad enough with jetstar , interalia, that booking a flight is like trying to understand plans for mobiles.


K.I.S.S.
What next? charging passengers and their baggage by seat plus total weight?
Maybe that's sensible

 

[mannej]

It's disgraceful. $7+ for paying by credit card on line for a domestic ticket - when there's no other way to pay!

There are fee free options that QF do present - I am fairly sure that you don't pay with a gift voucher or bpay?

 

[DougR]

There are fee free options that QF do present - I am fairly sure that you don't pay with a gift voucher or bpay?

Correct - but you also loose the Credit Card protection :-(

 

[Bandicoot]

Re: Jetstar's drip charges and the ACCC

It is not just the airlines credit card gouge. How about car rentals, the quoted price is about half of what you pay. How they get away with this is one of life's great mysteries, like the conscious mind or the origin of the universe.

 

[Bandicoot]

I have asked Jetstar, that since they chose my baggage (who in Australia calls luggage baggage, baggage is what happens to you), insurance, and charity, why they didn't also add in a hotel, a car, a show, and gifts for the family as well.

 

[mannej]

Correct - but you also loose the Credit Card protection :-(

But that is a different problem to those who state that there are no Fee Free options with QF.

 

[cbourl]

It is not just airlines - a lot of Aussie sales points charge surcharges for credit cards - I travel a lot USA Europe Middle East/Israel for leisure -the only place I've ever been charged a credit card surcharge is here in Australia - and Qantas is one of the major revenue-raising culprits! Internationally I fly Star Alliance and purchase fares online on United.com for travel within/to/from USA -no surcharge Lufthansa Australia through their call centre do not charge a credit card surcharge - yet if you purchase a LH or Star Alliance Airpass through someone like Flight Centre they ask for hunders of dollars in credit card surcharges pure profit mongering - and even when the airfare has no change fees aussie travel agents want $30 to do a 3 minute change on a C or F airfare - call the airline direct do it yourself and no extra fee - been doing it for years and usually choose to purchase from LH and/or LX direct - do what I do -boycott Aussie carriers and fly United or Lufthansa/Swiss/SQ/etc etc etc on LH or LX Global Fares
Unfortunately domestically here its a lose-lose situation -exorbitant airfares on QF then a credit card surcharge is slugged on top -when u can fly return on UA JFK-SFO for AU$400 -500 ie 10-12 hours of flying (and upgrade easily with a Regional or miles through United MileagePlus) without any credit card surcharge yet to fly from Adelaide to Sydney return for the same amount plus a credit card surcharge for a third of the travelling time you feel like vomiting but it beats walking! Why don't people here complain???????????? As we all know Aussies often pay the most for many goods/services in OECD countries - corporations aren't stupid and will take advantage wherever they can wake up and smell the borscht!!!!

 

[mannej]

do what I do -boycott Aussie carriers and fly United

No thanks.

 

[cbourl]

No thanks.

Good I wont have to see another shazza/kezza onboard!!!!! - im in F or occasionaly C to/from AU Stick t oQF ur surcharges poor connections poor networks there is a reason Star Alliance is the largest alliance worldwide jut like there is a reason Toyota is #1
I fly to Israel/EU via USA/Canada to and from AU more miles, better service, same airfare except for taxes and no phlegm snorting onboard! Go Go United! Go Lufti!!! Go Swiss!! Go Aircanada!

 

[dajop]

I
exorbitant airfares on QF then a credit card surcharge is slugged on top -when u can fly return on UA JFK-SFO for AU$400 -500 ie 10-12 hours of flying (and upgrade easily with a Regional or miles through United MileagePlus) without any credit card surcharge yet to fly from Adelaide to Sydney return for the same amount plus a credit card surcharge for a third of the travelling time you feel like vomiting but it beats walking!

Impossible to compare between markets, even within the US, let alone in a different country altogether. Try looking at something like NYC-ORD return, which is comparable to ADL/SYD in distance and is also often the same amount as or even more than JFK-SFO. Admittedly without a credit card surcharge, but if you don't have status, you have luggage fees and don't get free meals, and if you do have a reasonable status, you don't get lounge access, so apples and oranges.

 

[cbourl]

Impossible to compare between markets, even within the US, let alone in a different country altogether. Try looking at something like NYC-ORD return, which is comparable to ADL/SYD in distance and is also often the same amount as or even more than JFK-SFO. Admittedly without a credit card surcharge, but if you don't have status, you have luggage fees and don't get free meals, and if you do have a reasonable status, you don't get lounge access, so apples and oranges.

Im fortunate enough to be a Premier 1k, im upgraded domestically and to/from AU when my regionals/globals don't clear and im used to 3 bags at 32kg within USA and to /from EU/IL via USA vv Sure is apples and oranges! Absolutely my point! Thanks for helping me make it! And no NEXT-Gen checkin or being screamed at for checking in at the C counter domestically in AU after quieting for 20 minutes when flying QF C domestically "There is self-service checkin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

 

[dajop]

Im fortunate enough to be a Premier 1k, im upgraded domestically and to/from AU when my regionals/globals don't clear and im used to 3 bags at 32kg within USA and to /from EU/IL via USA vv Sure is apples and oranges! Absolutely my point!

But you're also missing my point on comparing JFK-SFO to SYD-ADL, a more valid (but still to a certain extent apples and oranges) comparison would be NYC-ORD, which is the same distance. Some random dates in October. SYD-ADL return on QF $257 (AUD); NYC-ORD return on UA $298 (USD), so hardly "exorbitant airfares" on QF. For some reason trans-con in the US is the outlier, but it's rare to see bargains on much shorter non-stops in the US.

 

[cbourl]

But you're also missing my point on comparing JFK-SFO to SYD-ADL, a more valid (but still to a certain extent apples and oranges) comparison would be NYC-ORD, which is the same distance. Some random dates in October. SYD-ADL return on QF $257 (AUD); NYC-ORD return on UA $298 (USD), so hardly "exorbitant airfares" on QF. For some reason trans-con in the US is the outlier, but it's rare to see bargains on much shorter non-stops in the US.

What should I compare it to? SYD or MEl - PER? that's even more of a revenue raising joke - it points that airlines market to their customers, to what they will pay and to what they are used to - corporations will do what is possible in terms of maximising profit - discerning or non-discerning clientele

 

[nick.wall]

But the worst was the $300+ i had to pay Flight Centre for buying a Business Class ticket to the US and paying with Amex. What a ripoff!

There seems to be a general belief, aided along by alleged "pro consumer" groups such as Choice that the airlines make a small fortune off these credit card fees.

Flight Centre obviously charged along a percentage of the transaction value in that case. Such a comment does demonstrate how booking through the airlines and paying their set Credit Card fees is an advantage for higher value tickets, i.e. Business and First. Are the airlines making some money off it? Maybe. Only they would know and they're probably not going to tell anyone.

Although the higher the more the ticket costs the better the value a set credit card fee. A view could be taken that what is happening to some degree is that customers in Economy, who pay on credit, pay an airline credit card fee that most of the time would cover the merchant fee associated with their ticket and leaves a little bit left over. The left over then offsets someone on a higher value ticket where the airline credit card fee didn't cover the entire merchant fee. It would seem to be a balancing act to minimise fees for those travelling on the higher value tickets - given they are likely more valuable customers to an airline it probably makes good business sense to do it that way.

These airlines (and a whole lot of other businesses) seem to have forgotten why credit cards were invented, to save them the costs and risks of handling cash.

Well yes, but they also do have merchant fees to pay. And on the volumes of cash airlines process via Credit Cards this would add up. I'm no expert on what they can count as 'the cost of accepting cards' which is what is often referred to in the media, although presumably the cost of PCI-DSS compliance and keeping their payment facilities secure could be factored in. The people that have the knowledge to do that may not be cheap to employ either, or the software that does it may not be cheap to purchase/use. It all adds up.

Why dont they just add 1% to every fare and have done with it.

They could I guess. Although if the ACCC backed the airlines into a corner to do this it's hardly a win for the consumer. All the ACCC would have done is guarantee flying is more expensive for those that don't want to use a Credit Card.

If the ACCC was genuinely interested in consumer protection and not so interested in publicity stunts, they'd simply get an industry code drawn up that outlined how all airfares are to be advertised. It could be as simple as having them all, as of a certain date have to state an "average fare" at the same time they advertise a "fares from" rate. An average fare for arguments sake could be set at a seat, no advanced seat selection, paying with a credit card and including at least 15kg checked baggage.

The telco industry seemed to be given the option to come up with an industry code on advertising and now all advertise a comparison rate for a 2min call. Perfect? Probably not. Better than nothing? Yes.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A view could be taken that what is happening to some degree is that customers in Economy, who pay on credit, pay an airline credit card fee that most of the time would cover the merchant fee associated with their ticket and leaves a little bit left over. The left over then offsets someone on a higher value ticket where the airline credit card fee didn't cover the entire merchant fee. It would seem to be a balancing act to minimise fees for those travelling on the higher value tickets - given they are likely more valuable customers to an airline it probably makes good business sense to do it that way.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Qantas line was that they take their entire world-wide credit card fees, and divide them solely between Australian purchasers.

Qantas can therefore claim they are not making a profit on the credit card fees and charges. Which is probably true, looking world-wide, and looking at the total fees which might be incurred on fares ranging from $16K down to $69. But not so much true looking at the individual passenger.

 

[dajop]

But not so much true looking at the individual passenger.

Yes, on an individual passenger basis, the fee can (in theory) be as high as 700% of the amount being charged !!! That's if you do points plus pay and choose to pay $1 and the rest in points.