ex-South Africa DONE5 vs ex-South Korea DONE4

[Keith009]

It is not often that I am home before 5am on a Sat night with no exams to study for. The dreadful weather doesn't help. So I'm debating on where to start the next DONE.

I will have to start another DONE in July after my current one ends in MNL, and am debating between:

SA DONE5:
JNB-SYD-AKL-SYD-NRT-DPS-NRT-SIN-HKG-JFK-MIA-xORD-LAX-LHR-DXB-xLHR-CPT

GBP3616 all in.

Pros:
- I can visit South Africa
- More miles towards EXP requalification
- Slightly cheaper (by GBP46.40 )

KR DONE4:
ICN-xHKG-MEL-AKL-SYD-JFK-MIA-MSP-xJFK-LAX-xLHR-DXB-LHR-HKG-DPS-NRT-ICN

GBP3662.40 all in.

Pros:
- Easier to position to from MNL (though only cheaper by 7000 BMI miles)
- Somewhat less positioning between MEL and SYD
- More North American segments (will have to buy the MSP flights seperately in the first one)
- Lots of major QF segments (HKG-MEL-AKL-MEL-SYD-JFK//LHR-HKG; 26k miles flown on QF here as opposed to only 14k SYD-JNB-SYD-AKL-SYD-NRT on the first one) -- no this is not an invitation for the anti-QF brigade to debate why Cathay or JL might be better, remember I'm the one who has to travel on this.
- No wasted continents (i do not want to see Africa other than SA)
- I can visit Seoul
- There's a W in Seoul.

The big con about the first one is of course the abysmal lack of flying on QF due to the itinerary and a lot of flying on carriers I don't really like ("it's about the journey" perspective here). Only con i see about the 2nd one is I'm planning to reposition home after SYD-JFK and it might be a bit hard to get transpacific award availability. Both will tip me towards EXP for '09 (cut off points are NRT-DPS and SYD-JFK for the respective itineraries), but the 2nd one will leave me with 8k BIS miles lesser for 2010.

I suppose the question is how much do I actually want to see Cape Town or visit a new continent. I'd only be spending 2 days in CPT before going home (have ticketed a MNL-xSIN-CPT-JNB award). I'd admit though, that were it not for starting a cheap DONE I probably wouldn't rush to set foot on South Africa. Don't really mind visiting CPT or SEL. And both get me more or less to where I want. It might also be difficult positioning elsewhere from Africa at the end of this itinerary of course, should SA work out to be expensive in future or I don't have time to do further DONEs.

I want to get ticketing within the next month or so but can't decide on which one. Help! :mrgreen:

 

[Evan]

Your really not helping me decide almost the identical question ! I will be in Korea week after next so its easy to pick up tickets but my other ticket ends in JNB anyway so easy to start the next.
When i looked the other day the KRW was a better rate than the ZAR which made them more or less the same price.

For you i would also point out ex KR gives you more stops in MEL if you will be doing a split trip and not all one one go.

Is the current currency issues going to mean that when put on a CC you will may more for say ZAR than you should compared to KRW ? or will you wire transfer ?

E

 

[Keith009]

I'd have to pay in GBP for the KR ticket as AA ICN will not accept remote CC payment. So I'd have to get it ticketed with AA UK. I got AA Dublin to rate the itineraries for purchase in LON to make it easier for side by side comparison.

ZAR or GBP doesn't really make any difference per xe.com, though when the GBP was really in the doldrums last week it was actually rather cheaper doing ZAR->GBP->AUD than ZAR->AUD.

 

[Evan]

Interesting about the fact GBP is similar costs...
As a data point for other reading the thread..

12/11/08
51,500.00 ZAR = 7,562 AUD SA DONE5
6,776,800.00 KRW = 7,614 AUD KR DONE4

23/11/08
6,776,800.00 KRW = 7,245 AUD KR DONE4
51,500.00 ZAR = 7,891 AUD SA DONE5

As you can see the ZAR has risen against the AUD or the KRW has dropped. A rather lot.
I am right at this moment a little concerned about the crazy exchange rates Amex have been using for some people, but i have not personally had it really happen to me, i have to check a few more recent transactions, but if paying in KR i assume i could use my Visa which i cant for an AA booked and paid in ZAR via Mindpearl.

I also guess your not attempting to optimise SC or miles (AA i guess also), if you were you could do better by re-arranging a few flights, for example on the DONE4 ex KR you could be doing it as Asia-USA-Europe-Australia-Asia

E

 

[Keith009]

What the rates desk will do when you request for EU purchase is convert the ZAR or KRW figure into the European currency at BSR (BASE FARE/EQUIV AMT), then add on the +++s in the European currency. There's no way I can make it to Seoul any time soon so I have to get AA UK to issue the tix if i do ex-ICN.

If it was ex-SA whether i issue it in SA or UK depends on international currency yoga I guess.

You're saying that Mindpearl in CPT doesn't accept VISA??? Did you wire transfer then?

I also guess your not attempting to optimise SC or miles (AA i guess also), if you were you could do better by re-arranging a few flights, for example on the DONE4 ex KR you could be doing it as Asia-USA-Europe-Australia-Asia

I'd be starting the new DONE at the end of the MNL DONE which brings me back to MNL from a month in the US, so I want to break up the ticket by heading home immediately after Asia. Plus of course maximise long QF segments.

The DONE5 is a better EQP maximiser from a strictly miles maximiser POV.

I'd be looking to issue the ticket in Jan or Feb at the latest so I guess a lot will depend on currency movements of the week.

 

[Keith009]

Oh and one more pro for ex-SA - the Rand has been consistently low whereas the KRW has been more volatile.

 

[Leumas]

Have you considered starting in NZ? Although I haven't done the conversion from the numbers you posted, I don't think the sum will be too different especially after considering relocating costs. Your route says you want to go there anyway.

If you've plans to see SA, then by all means. Just going to SA for a ticket doesn't seem economical to me, especially when you have to get there and get a xONE5 ticket.

 

[Keith009]

Positioning to NZ would require the same effort as positioning to SA, as I'll be positioning from MNL where my current DONE ends. Unfortunately the strong USD makes another ex-MNL uneconomical, hence the need for a new starting point.

With BMI miles from MNL, a J ticket to both SA and NZ would cost 18 750 miles + cash, to ICN 11500 miles + cash or 15 000 miles + cash in F.

But base fare of approx GBP4500 ex-NZ, not really an option.

With the costs of ex-KR DONE4 and ex-SA DONE5 being so similar I guess the real question is which place (Seoul or Cape Town) I want to visit more... Now, which is a better spot for a piss up?

 

[Evan]

I am not sure about MNL-ICN but if i look at positioning costs (My last JNB trip was SQ miles anyway so no cost except some taxes) then i find that it often costs as much to fly to Korea at this time of the year as it does South Africa !!! ok about $200 difference but not as much as you may expect.
I am sure in your case you have some BMI miles to burn so 7000 extra is not so bad.

If your not purchaseing for a few weeks then i think you also need to look at it then given the last 2 weeks have seen the ZAR strengthen or KRW weaken, or both... significantly.

I did not compare prices too much but when i was there it looked like good shopping in Sother Africa Korea also but expensive my Korean friends tell me.

I feel much safer getting pissed in Korea ! sure there is places in JNB/CPT but you can wonder the streets at night in Korea.... also both will be cold but Korea will be SNOWING ! (Thats if as i understand it you want to travel soon.)

E

 

[Keith009]

Not commencing on the ticket till July or so, but I have a feeling that the prices are "whilst stocks last" as 1) exchange rates are volatile; 2) even if the rate stays low they might try to increase prices till due "popular demand." So am trying to ticket soon to lock in the good prices.

Mmmm.... shopping. I don't intend to stop in JNB, just connecting as I do want to come back alive. But I'd spend 2 days in CPT if i do the SA option.

The W in SEL is looking v attractive too though.

 

[Evan]

Not commencing on the ticket till July or so, but I have a feeling that the prices are "whilst stocks last" as 1) exchange rates are volatile; 2) even if the rate stays low they might try to increase prices till due "popular demand." So am trying to ticket soon to lock in the good prices.

Mmmm.... shopping. I don't intend to stop in JNB, just connecting as I do want to come back alive. But I'd spend 2 days in CPT if i do the SA option.

The W in SEL is looking v attractive too though.

I have a feeling your right, the only small advantage i see now with all the would issues is demand may have dropped over all a little includeing the cheap locations and that they may not be so inclined to raise prices just now for the reaon that they will have even less demand.

I also want to lock a lot of my travel in 2009/2010 in very soon.

E

 

[Keith009]

Right, choice of carriers (too much CX/JL on the ex-JNB one and not enough QF) and international currency movements notwithstanding - it's now turning into a debate between where I'd rather be - Cape Town or Seoul.

So if you have 2 days to spare... iitinerary concerns aside, where would you rather be? Any comments on the nightlife and the ability to get plastered in either place?

Pros of Cape Town:
- Wine growing region
- Nice scenery
- From many accounts - good looking men
- I've not been to Africa

Pros of Seoul:
- Easier to position to from MNL (where my current DONE is going to end), and easier to get home from should I decide not to do DONEs anymore after that
- There's a W in Seoul
- Korean food
- Safer (?)
- Centre of political significance RE Korean War

 

[docjames]

I think only you can answer this one!

If your time is in Cape Town, i wouldnt worry so much - it's not really that less safe than any other major city (for an experienced traveller!).

Personally, I'd go Cape Town - not going to see much if it's snowing and miserable in Korea (skiing??).

I guess if it comes down to 50/50, why dont you decide based on cost and ease of transit?

 

[Keith009]

Oops typo in the first post, for ex-ICN, NRT is meant to be a transit rather than a stop.

Oh and it'd be in July...

 

[docjames]

Well, if its july i'd go korea all else being equal - easier reset to/from etc; better weather (Nth vs South Hemisphere).

Easy!

 

[dajop]

I'd go Cape Town, just for the dramatic setting, it's up there with my top 5 cities (that I've been to) just because of that alone - it is quite spectacular. On the liveliness factor, Seoul is obviously a much bigger city (and an Asian city) - which means there is much more going on around the clock, but nevertheless there's still a few choice spots in Cape Town to enjoy a drink or two or more.

And OK in July it is winter in Cape Town, so the beaches etc aren't going to be swimmable. But it is coastal and on the same latitude as Sydney, so I can't imagine the weather being that bad - probably not worse than a Melbourne winters (or late November's) day.

Seoul, could take or leave, I prefer Shanghai, Hongkong or Tokyo. But admittedly my opinion is only based on 2x24 hour stays.

 

[Keith009]

Has anyone done the DMZ tour in SEL? Heard some nice things about it, a physical epitome of the neverending struggle between freedom, and rouge states and illiberal ideologies.

Is it also possible to venture into the North/South demilitarised zone?

 

[Keith009]

Am leaning towards Cape Town now as all the responses I've had are overwhelmingly in favour of the place. I'd grin and bear certain aforementioned airlines and think of the mileage harvest...

Can I do much in CPT in 2 days though? I'd be arriving on the SQ flight at 1025 (it's via JNB now) and leaving 2 days later at 1240 on a domestic flight to JNB connecting home to MEL via SYD.

I was thinking of a tour out to the wineries since I don't drive. Not really into staring at animals so I won't be doing safaris. Check out Waterfront and Long St nightlife on each night.

Would July be a tad too cold for Camps Bay?

Anything else?

Seems like Westin Cape Town is the only Starwood option in Cape Town so that's where I'd be staying, seems a handy location to the Waterfront too.

And how's the shopping in Cape Town? Or should I even bother?

 

[dajop]

Goes without saying that (winds/weather permitting) a trip up the cable car to Table Mountain is well worth doing. I also found a trip to Robben Island quite interesting, this is where Nelson Mandela was held and former prisoners to give part of the tour, plus a nice ferry trip with great views back to Cape Town and Table Mountain. The drive down the coast is quite spectacular as well (can't remember the name of the road) I'd rate it better than Great Ocean Road. I don't think it heads in the right direction for wineries - but if it did it would be good to combine.

 

[Keith009]

Barring a dramatic appreciation in the Rand, I think I'd go with the ex-SA option now as responses on both here and other forums have been overwhelmingly in favour of CPT.

Now if only there's a W in CPT...:mrgreen: