EU Compensation for overnight delayed flight.

[rayray]

Hi Everyone,

A month ago I was on a delayed QF2 flight from LHR to SYD. Originally it was delayed 12 hours, but I opted to reschedule for the QF2 that was scheduled to depart one day later than my original flight (and which left on time).

Qantas said they would cover accommodation, food and ground transport, which came to $AUD 450. I emailed Qantas the receipts, and also requested the EU compensation for a delayed flight of 600 Euros.

Qantas have come back agreeing to the 600 Euros, but saying that no additional out of pocket expenses will be covered. 600 euros is obviously more than $450, but shouldn't they be paying for both? According this this site Air passenger rights - Your Europe the accommodation / food / ground transport if for a delayed departure, and the 600 euros is for delayed arrival.

So two questions
1) Am I just being greedy and should just accept the 600 euros?
2) Are I actually entitled to both or am I reading it wrong?

 

[opusman]

My reading of it is that yes, you're entitled to both.

 

[docjames]

According to the http://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.h...a7-8bf4-b0f60600c1d6.0004.02/DOC_1&format=PDF

Article 9 covers "right to care"

Article 9 Right to care
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shallbe offered free of chargea) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to thewaiting time;(b) hotel accommodation in cases— where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary,or— where a stay additional to that intended by thepassenger becomes necessary;(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation(hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge twotelephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall payparticular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobilityand any persons accompanying them, as well as to theneeds of unaccompanied children.

and article 7

Right to compensation1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to
a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1 500 kilometres or less;
(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than1 500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1 500and 3 500 kilometres;
(c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).
In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation will delay the passenger's arrival after the scheduled time.

It seems you are entitled to both.


The question is how hard will you chase it, and whether QF can get around it by the fact you (rather than they) organised the provisions under "rights to care" .

So i'd say you could refer to the document and ask for both. Question will be what are your options if they still deny claim.

Out of interest, did they follow this article (particularly point 2)?

Article 14 Obligation to inform passengers of their rights
1. The operating air carrier shall ensure that at check-in aclearly legible notice containing the following text is displayedin a manner clearly visible to passengers: ‘If you are deniedboarding or if your flight is cancelled or delayed for at leasttwo hours, ask at the check-in counter or boarding gate for thetext stating your rights, particularly with regard to compensationand assistance’.
2. An operating air carrier denying boarding or cancelling aflight shall provide each passenger affected with a writtennotice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance inline with this Regulation. It shall also provide each passengeraffected by a delay of at least two hours with an equivalentnotice. The contact details of the national designated bodyreferred to in Article 16 shall also be given to the passenger inwritten form.
3. In respect of blind and visually impaired persons, theprovisions of this Article shall be applied using appropriatealternative means.

 

[rayray]

The question is how hard will you chase it, and whether QF can get around it by the fact you (rather than they) organised the provisions under "rights to care" .

Well they suggested to me that I organise my hotel and they would reimburse me, I didn't do it on my own.

I guess my options are to ask for both and when they deny it, decide if missing out of $500 is worth getting the 600 Euros now and not going through a complaint process.

 

[moa999]

I'd also think that the fact you voluntarily chose to move to a different flight (which seemingly left on time) may weaken your argument.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

IMO airlines that make it difficult for customers to claim like this should be penalised further.

Qantas has a manual on how to handle this situation, and I'm sure line #1 does NOT say "Try XX with the pax first, see if we can get them to agree at the cheap level".

 

[PDog]

I'd also think that the fact you voluntarily chose to move to a different flight (which seemingly left on time) may weaken your argument.

My understanding is both too. Our claim is against BMI who are dragging it out forever. We didn't pay for the accommodation- they did, we are just chasing the 2 x €250 which I want out of spite as I missed a special occassion :-(

Had you you just accepted the delay would you have needed accommodation?

There are UK based solicitors who take around 25% I think & sort it for you. No win, no fee- might be an option if you're serious, but might also score you a black mark if you fly them regularly!

 

[rayray]

#1 - No, they did not give us a copy of our rights or have notices. However we did check in to a completely different flight, rather than the same flight delayed.
#2 - Yes, the original delay moved the flight from ~8:30pm to ~8:30am the next day. So accommodation was needed and offered.
#3 - My final destination was not SYD but AKL. So the delay meant arriving into SYD in the evening, catching an additional flight to MEL and then an overnight flight from MEL to AKL. In the end taking the flight 24 hours later (12 hours later than the rescheduled time) only got me back to AKL 6 hours later than their original rebooking (and avoided a horrible 3hr overnight flight)
#4 - Let's see what Qantas say - will reply with the accommodation / food was for the departure delay and is not compensation since it covers our cost. The 600 EUR is the compensation for the arrival delay.

 

[ozflier]

Hi,
Can you advise me?
Does the EU compensation system apply say on a QF flight departing LHR for BNE via Dubai and the second leg is diverted to fly via Guangzhou/Sydney from Dubai because of technical problems with the a/c that should have flown direct from Dubai.
The initial flight out of Europe was fine but things went downhill after that - does the Euro 600 payment still potentially apply to this situation.

 

[PDog]

Hi,
Can you advise me?
Does the EU compensation system apply say on a QF flight departing LHR for BNE via Dubai and the second leg is diverted to fly via Guangzhou/Sydney from Dubai because of technical problems with the a/c that should have flown direct from Dubai.
The initial flight out of Europe was fine but things went downhill after that - does the Euro 600 payment still potentially apply to this situation.

I thought it only related to boarding fight from the EU? But I am no expert

 

[njba]

IMO airlines that make it difficult for customers to claim like this should be penalised further.

Absolutely. Compliance should be with both the spirit and letter of the law.

 

[rayray]

This is qantas's reply

As per Article 12 of Regulation EC261/2004, no additional compensation applies to the compensation already being paid with any expenses to be deducted from the compensation received. I hope this information helps to clarify the situation. We respectfully suggest you consult with your travel insurer, who may be able to assist with these additional expenses

Article 12 states:

Further compensation
1. This Regulation shall apply without prejudice to a passenger's rights to further compensation. The compensation granted under this Regulation may be deducted from such compensation.
2. Without prejudice to relevant principles and rules of national law, including case-law, paragraph 1 shall not apply to passengers who have voluntarily surrendered a reservation under Article 4(1).

I don't really see how this applies. I am asking for reimbursement of my costs, plus compensation.

 

[PDog]

This is qantas's reply



Article 12 states:



I don't really see how this applies. I am asking for reimbursement of my costs, plus compensation.

I would agree. From my limited experience (with a different airline), they throw less than factual roadblocks up to get out of paying. At least you are getting a response... I would go back to them spelling out what you have received and what is still outstanding.

 

[rayray]

I'm kind of over it though. Despite what I think I'm entitled to, the 600 Euros covers my additional costs, with some extra compensation for getting home later. So I might just accept that.

 

[njba]

I'm kind of over it though. Despite what I think I'm entitled to, the 600 Euros covers my additional costs, with some extra compensation for getting home later. So I might just accept that.

Please stay strong. This attitude is exactly what QF is counting on: that if they put up some barriers people will give up and not get what they're entitled to.

Your decision, of course.

 

[bam71]

Hi,
Can you advise me?
Does the EU compensation system apply say on a QF flight departing LHR for BNE via Dubai and the second leg is diverted to fly via Guangzhou/Sydney from Dubai because of technical problems with the a/c that should have flown direct from Dubai.
The initial flight out of Europe was fine but things went downhill after that - does the Euro 600 payment still potentially apply to this situation.

This happened to us a few years back. From Amsterdam to Jakarta via DXB, through flight, same aircraft all the way, in J. The flight went tech in DXB, no hotels as there was something on, and we spent the night in a lounge. Getting back home we sent the details to one of those EU law firms who specialise in the EU Compensation ( they took a 25% fee if I remember correctly ). They advised does not apply in this instance even though it was the one flight number from AMS to CGK.

 

[ozflier]

Thank you for your comments.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This happened to us a few years back. From Amsterdam to Jakarta via DXB, through flight, same aircraft all the way, in J. The flight went tech in DXB, no hotels as there was something on, and we spent the night in a lounge. Getting back home we sent the details to one of those EU law firms who specialise in the EU Compensation ( they took a 25% fee if I remember correctly ). They advised does not apply in this instance even though it was the one flight number from AMS to CGK.

Given your case was a few years ago I think the rules have changed now - delay is now counted as the arrival time at your destination, including connections, rather than takeoff. Your flight might be 5 minutes late leaving the EU, but if it arrives more than [x] hours late it becomes subject to compensation. There was detailed discussion on this in the QF2 New Year debacle thread.